Given Notice, How to Negotiate

[mystang52]

Hmmm, Supervisor in another country. I'll give supervisor benefit of the doubt and ascribe his absurd reaction to a different culture. Else, as Claudius would have said, his offense is rank it smells to Heaven.
Whatever additional compensation OP wants should be payable as a regular paycheck....not some lump sum at the end of this supposed open-ended arrangement. BUT, I think the better course is to do as others suggested and notify HR and stick to original end date. I think any extension of the date would be a very difficult environment for OP.

[braumeister]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pb4uski My DD gave her employer 6 weeks notice to allow for a replacement to be found, etc and they didn't even start the search until her last week.

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Originally Posted by Aerides do NOT do some open ended thing like "until we find a replacement" but # of weeks, a date. They will squander 90% of whatever the time is, so don't make it very long at all.

Good advice. This is very common. You are in the driver's seat, so make sure you stay there.

[latexman]

Sounds like you are ready to go, but will hang on a short while if paid handsomely.

I would not communicate with the dark side (HR) at all until they schedule your exit interview.

I would document your retirement in an email to your boss and a cc: to his boss. Be sure to mention your last work day, 3/19 (2 weeks). Then end it with, “I am available after 3/19 on a contract basis at _____ (fill in the blank with more than you really want). For example, 1.5X, 2X, or 2.5X what you make now.

That should get them to the negotiation table! Remember, they will negotiate down from your proposal, so go bigger than what you want.

Be aware, this could lead to you being walked out the door, but I doubt it.

[Popeye]

My question for the OP is to get a better understanding of the discussion. Is this a boss located in another country or did you call him while he’s traveling in another country on Friday and expect some detailed offer by Monday? Also it sounds like you said you were leaving and would be flexible on the date. Is that correct or did you say, l’m gone in two weeks but might help out for a little longer. To me, that’s two different things. I didn’t see the boss reaction as so harsh, merely a negotiation point. He obviously hasn’t figured out what to do and you’re pressuring for an answer. If you didn’t make it a clear two weeks notice, he may have figured he had more time.

As far as bringing in HR right away, it depends on the company. I know that once they got into things at my Megacorp my options were cut on half as to what I could do. Of course I trusted most of my bosses more than HR over the years.

[CardsFan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerides I thought the OP's scenario qualified: He made a good faith resignation, and was rebutted, with basically "you can go when I want you to go" and that would be screwy in my book, especially with OP being ready to retire. He can still walk out with head held high, I would have, but now's the time to get the date formalized since the boss isn't going to give.

No argument here. Just pointing out to think it over. A formal, firm end date is a MUST. Can't agree more. Open-ended is an accident waiting to happen.

[Jerry1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DINKFIRE it would be my professional courtesy to stay

To this I would point out that the policy is two weeks and that is the only professional obligation you have. As for courtesy, I’m sure you would be given no such courtesy if they were intent on getting rid of you.

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It doesn't seem reasonable to require an open ended resignation

It’s not!

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What would you do in this situation?

Since you asked, I would communicate very courteously that you relied on the company’s policy while you were planning your retirement and that you intend on retiring in the very near future. I’d let them know that you’re willing to consider any offer they’re willing to make but that just extending your current situation is not something you’re open to. Then sit back and see what they offer. Make sure you give them a few days but let them know you will be submitting your paperwork to HR per the company policy.

This is the negotiation process. The goal is to see if they’re even interested or capable of putting something worth your consideration on the table. If not, you’re gone - per policy, no looking back. If so, counter with a stretch goal. The rest is up to you and them to come to some terms you’re both happy with. Good luck.

The good thing is that you can’t lose. Either you start your new, retired, life in a few weeks, or, you work out a nice arrangement to finish off your career. Recognize that this is no time to get greedy. Go for that proverbial win win.

[Dash man]

My DW arranged her retirement skillfully. She offered to stay six months with three weeks vacation included, paid full salary for a year with bonus and stock option/restricted stock grants going with her when she left. We were also in their medical plan for the whole year.
Me, I gave three months notice so I wouldn’t leave my team in a pinch. But I did take three weeks vacation in that time. Most of my team followed me a few weeks later. They did hire my replacement in time for me to train her within that time.

[OldShooter]

IMO there may be some tone deafness here. Note the supervisor is in a different country. Cultural factors to be considered here? Negotiating in American style may not be the best strategy.

[pb4uski]

Second thought... tell your boss that you were trying to be accomodating but since they are not that you will be leaving in three weeks and just want to give him the heads up that you are notifying HR as well... if he doesn't like it then he can fire you and you are fine with that too.

They don't call wealth FU money for nothing.

[Bamaman]

I didn't like to hear the boss say to stay away from HR. And that they needed you to stay until they found a replacement--and then stay long enough to train the "new guy." It's all so open ended.

In many technical fields, finding new employees ready to step into a very demanding, new job is very difficult--and also very time consuming. And to stay back long enough do training is an unreasonable request. You could spend the better part of the year working when there are other enjoyable things you could be doing.

I'd give them a date set in stone that you'll stay until. And then hit the door.

Note: Anytime employees at my MegaCorp gave a resignation notice, they'd call you in later in the day and tell you to go ahead and leave. They decided in 2008 that all employees 55 and older or 30 years on the job were expendable, and we were given 1 day's notice. Didn't hurt my feelings one bit as they paid out the nose to send us to the house. It was just their way of doing business and not personal.

[Dtail]

Hand in your resignation to HR with YOUR end date for your employment at will situation.
Do you wish to ever do any consulting work with them; if not you are completely in charge.
I don't have contact with anyone from any former job in retirement and like it this way and I enjoyed my career.

[Exchme]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerides This is where I'd email HR, cc my boss, and their boss: "As we discussed on 3/4, I offered you my two week's notice...in lieu of any offer of significant additional compensation, my last day will be 3/18." and then I'd laugh and laugh and laugh some more. ETA: if they do consider more money for more time, understand that might come with more unpleasantness if your boss is already this bent out of shape. If he's asked to do a pay-to-stay, he might make life a bit uglier for the duration. And do NOT do some open ended thing like "until we find a replacement" but # of weeks, a date. They will squander 90% of whatever the time is, so don't make it very long at all.

Yes, this is the right approach. Mention in your note that the boss wanted you to stay longer and you would be willing to discuss a retention package, but that it needs to be worked out in time as you understand it takes HR some time to process people in case no mutually agreeable retention package can be worked out.

That gets your notice in writing to HR while leaving the option open for your boss to offer a retention package.

In my w*rking years, when folks were quitting to go to other firms, I sometimes made counteroffers, but if they were big numbers, I had to get approval, so I told the folks to keep an open mind and let me work up something. If the person was particularly important, we would "love buzz" them from every angle with all kinds of managers coming forward to show their appreciation. So my guess is that if your boss was considering a retention package, he would have said so and you would know it by now. Instead he seems to think bullying you into staying will work. Your note should be respectful, factual and get the ball rolling one direction or other.

[donheff]

Quote:

Originally Posted by latexman Sounds like you are ready to go, but will hang on a short while if paid handsomely. I would not communicate with the dark side (HR) at all until they schedule your exit interview. I would document your retirement in an email to your boss and a cc: to his boss. Be sure to mention your last work day, 3/19 (2 weeks). Then end it with, “I am available after 3/19 on a contract basis at _____ (fill in the blank with more than you really want). For example, 1.5X, 2X, or 2.5X what you make now. That should get them to the negotiation table! Remember, they will negotiate down from your proposal, so go bigger than what you want. Be aware, this could lead to you being walked out the door, but I doubt it.

Given the situation and the boss' response, I like this approach. There is no obligation to "go to HR" to give notice. You are free to leave any time you want. Notice to your boss is a courtesy. Go to HR if there are post employment benefits that need to be coordinated or applied for. That said, I was happy to work in a situation where I felt appreciated and was comfortable giving several months notice. That was a courtesy on my part toward an organization that hand been good to me.

[pb4uski]

Please keep us posted on how this plays out for you. BTW, you boss sounds like an a$$hat.

[pacergal]

Big red flag to me that your boss wants HR to stay uninformed!
If you are ready to retire and nothing would keep you there, then email HR, cc your boss, with date of retirement/last day of work.
If you wish to continue/consult/train next person, then email HR, cc your boss with date of retirement and offer of how long you would be willing to stay as consultant(with rate of pay) to train next person.
You are retiring, you are in the drivers seat, as long as you are following employee manual that stated 2 weeks notice.

[DINKFIRE]

Thank you all for the suggestions and helpful insights.

I guess every company is different. Back when I first joined the company, HR negotiated hard on my starting pay, and my first boss (I have three bosses over the years) told me he pushed hard on higher pay but HR held the power.

Anyhow, I spoke with HR yesterday, and they appeared to be willing to negotiate. I understand that there are a lot to do and I'm willing to work out a plan that benefits the company and me as well, but I told them I don't expect to extend my end date by more than a couple of months. I also mentioned I might need to reduce my hours during the extended period.

HR instructed me to sent written resignation letter to my boss cc them without putting a end date on it, but instead note in the letter that would be discussed. After I sent that letter, I haven't heard anything back from my boss.

I don't believe culture difference is an issue here, as my boss is with our headquarter company in a different country, within the same US time zone and very similar culture as US.

At this point, at least my resignation is known and documented. Only my boss, the head of our local company and HR know about this. The company I work for in recent years has laid off many workers, and recent layoff of several individuals were not communicated at all, they simply disappeared without saying goodbye or letting us know why. Rumor said they received fair severance.

[mh]

It’s best to just submit your two weeks notice to HR I think if you don’t see coming back. Dancing around with this guy will lead to nothing good most likely from the sound of it. Just go by the HR book that’s why they are there

[braumeister]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DINKFIRE HR instructed me to sent written resignation letter to my boss cc them without putting a end date on it, but instead note in the letter that would be discussed. After I sent that letter, I haven't heard anything back from my boss.

WADR I think that was a mistake. Leaving it open ended takes the pressure off them.

[Brat]

This discussion highlights the importance of succession planning, a management responsibility. Succession planning should happen for all key positions and for hard to replace skill sets.

Their failure to plan is not your responsibility

[travelover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by braumeister WADR I think that was a mistake. Leaving it open ended takes the pressure off them.

I agree. In my experience, companies are terrible about finding replacements and with no deadline they are even worse.