Grand-parenting - Was I out of line?

[Bir48die]

WWAD (what would Abby do?)

 

[splitwdw]

So, yesterday I sent our DIL an email to inquire about that fence. Here it is verbatim: "Does your new home have a security fence that will prohibit small children from accessing the pool? I need to be able to put my head down on the pillow at night and sleep."

DIL's reply (verbatim) "No it does not [have a pool fence]. However, as parents, we have already discussed what we need to do to ensure our child's safety. Please allow us to worry. You have nothing to worry about. Trust us with raising and caring for our child."

DS decided to weigh in as well, no doubt at DIL's request (verbatim): "I appreciate you and Mom being concerned about how we raise our daughter. Although to be frank, I kind of need you guys to back off a bit. All of the recommendations and suggestions on how to raise and look out for her are becoming a little intrusive. I know you both mean the best, but we have everything under control."

"P.S. Yes, we have the pool gate under control. We are aware of the drowning risks."

We were most bothered by our DS's response. I kind of need you guys to back off a bit. All of the recommendations and suggestions onhow to raise and look out for her are becoming a little intrusive. DW & I have a strict policy that we live by. We do not speak into the lives of our adult children unless asked. We do not tell either of our 2 adult sons how to parent their children (we have 4 grandchildren now, the oldest 12 years of age) We butt out, period. This means we do NOT give unsolicited advice. The only time we have given advice is when our opinion or assistance has been requested.

In light of all of this, I'm looking for feedback.

Was I out of line in asking about the pool fence?

Is the manner in which the question was phrased out of line?

I admit that by stating "I need to be able to put my head on the pillow at night and sleep" may have turned the question into a rhetorical one. But just the same, did it warrant the replies that were given?

Yes, their emails were appropriate. It sounds like you've been giving unsolicited advise and you think your dil is making your son say things that he wouldn't normally say to you.

Your email should have been "Does the pool have a security fence?" and not the added drama about you sleeping at night. Do you really think that they wouldn't think of this? I got the impression that you thought you were the only one that thought about this.

My mother in law gives advise all the time. She also does "eye rolls" when she thinks you aren't looking but we all see it. It has gotten to the point where none of us like to visit the in laws, even their own children, and they think we spend too much time at the others parents. My husband has said something to her about her advice and she turned it around by asking if I put him up to it. I think she's been doing it for so long that she doesn't realize what she's doing and saying and will not change.

 

[calmloki]

No kid experience here, but..
My Mom was an intelligent interested verbal English teacher. My gal still gets doe-eyed when recounting the time I told Mom that "Mom, this is Gal's house". The two of them were greater friends thereafter, perhaps because they were on a more equal footing. “Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh” Your son may have improved his relationship with his comment.

 

[Blue Collar Guy]

Email is a a very poor form of communication!!!!

A lot goes into how we communicate with others. The tone of voice, the construction and intent of the message, etc. With email what you write is interpreted by the mood and state of mind of the person reading. The same thing happens all the time on this board. I would caution to use more face to face communication and less written. It sounds like common sense concerns are being interpreted differently than you mean it.

+1 better said then I did. Thats what I meant by "this is why I dont Skype..

 

[Chuckanut]

One thing I learned after seeing what happens to other grandparents is this - Don't alienate the parents of your grandchildren.

I know grandparents who have seen their grandchildren moved far away, in part because sticking around the grandparents is not worth the sacrifice. So why not take that job offer on the other side of the country?

I know grandparents whose child dies unexpectedly, and the mistreated spouse-in-law cuts off most, if not all communication with the grandchildren.

 

[Blue Collar Guy]

One thing I learned after seeing what happens to other grandparents is this - Don't alienate the parents of your grandchildren.

I know grandparents who have seen their grandchildren moved far away, in part because sticking around the grandparents is not worth the sacrifice. So why not take that job offer on the other side of the country?

I know grandparents whose child dies unexpectedly, and the mistreated spouse-in-law cuts off most, if not all communication with the grandchildren.

Yeah that blows. I wonder , If your child dies, do you send his share of the inheritance to the grandchildren/ or the surviving spouse? or they dont get the deceased childs share? Or is this a new thread?

 

[bclover]

What you meant was, "We've seen so many sad stories about curious and quick infants who perished in the family pool, and we don't want you to suffer that pain". What they heard was, "you don't trust us to raise our own child". They apparently felt similarly about recent advice whether it was solicited or not.


They are buying a house, which is a stressful event and their sensitivities are probably heightened. Seems like the time to play the patriarch/matriarch role and keep the peace, even it means apologizing for what they view to be intrusion.

+1

Also they may have gotten that question 15 times already. every person that has viewed the pool area may have questioned the safety issue.
So they first time your cool but by the 10th time you're ready to explode with "what? do I look like a moron, yes we know we need a fence" and unfortunately whomever is the poor soul who asked that question on the 10th go round gets unloaded on.

I'd give this one a pass

 

[candrew]

One thing I learned after seeing what happens to other grandparents is this - Don't alienate the parents of your grandchildren.

I know grandparents who have seen their grandchildren moved far away, in part because sticking around the grandparents is not worth the sacrifice. So why not take that job offer on the other side of the country?

I know grandparents whose child dies unexpectedly, and the mistreated spouse-in-law cuts off most, if not all communication with the grandchildren.

I really don't believe we are at risk of alienating our DS and DIL over this issue with the pool fence. We have enjoyed a great relationship with them both. I did immediately apologize and thanked our son for reminding me of boundaries. In fact, this is the first bit of contention we've ever had with either of our adult sons and their respective spouses. Honestly, it caught both DW & I completely by surprise.

I need to remind myself going forward to stick with the pact DW & I made with each other and our adult kids. No speaking into their lives unless they request us to do so. I slipped up here and will take a more measured and thoughtful approach. Upon returning home from our overseas travels next month, there will be an opportunity for me to reassure both our son and DIL that we appreciate the great job they do as parents and that I am mindful of that very important fact.

Really appreciate the feedback, support and constructive criticism from everyone here!

 

[nash031]

As a new parent who has already confronted my father in law once, I think yes, you crossed the line. Recognize that your son and his wife are adults. They are parents. They need to be let be parents. You mean well, but I can tell you from the other side how it is taken, and I would've responded similarly.

Your strict policy clearly isn't as strict as you think. My wife said, "that email (yours) sounded like it was written by the HOA."

They wanted to show off their new house to you, and you parented them instead of allowing the celebration.

My wife suggested an alternative approach - instead of the question, offer to help pay for the fence installation for a housewarming. That way, there is no implication that they are bad parents. In the event they hadn't thought of it, you win. If they had, you're still a hero and they wouldn't think you were judging!

My wife is a genius, by the way.

 

[CaliKid]

Clearly the pool fence was just the tipping point. They said they are tired of your ideas.

Learn to bite your tongue, smile, and nod.

It's not your kid.

 

[growing_older]

It's very unlikely that a single comment about a pool fence, even if poorly worded as a sleep joke, would provoke a response about needing to respect boundaries. The fact that they feel like they need to push back and remind you of boundaries indicates that you have not been as chill and hand-off as you think you have. Probably a lot less than you think.

The single comment in isolation is no big deal, even as awkward as it sounds. But the response strongly suggests it wasn't an isolated incident. You likely have a pattern of behavior you are not aware of, and your descriptions about how good your relationship is seem to confirm that.

If I were in the position of DS, I would be arranging with my wife to reduce exposure to these kinds of criticisms, even if it meant quietly reducing family visits. You probably do not want to start down that path.

 

[gretah]

One thing I learned after seeing what happens to other grandparents is this - Don't alienate the parents of your grandchildren.

I know grandparents who have seen their grandchildren moved far away, in part because sticking around the grandparents is not worth the sacrifice. So why not take that job offer on the other side of the country?

I know grandparents whose child dies unexpectedly, and the mistreated spouse-in-law cuts off most, if not all communication with the grandchildren.

Chuckanut gives very smart advice.

I, too, know of grandparents cut off from grandchildren when their adult child dies. They were right, the in law child was wrong. And they haven't had contact with the grandchildren in years.

"No contact" also happens in the case of divorce and the in law getting sole custody or makes "no contact with grandparents" (you) part of the divorce agreement.

Stop thinking about who is right or wrong. Your DIL is the gateway to your grandchildren. Back waaaay off and treat her like she is the authority and princess of everything. Keep your worries to yourself.

 

[Chuckanut]

I really don't believe we are at risk of alienating our DS and DIL over this issue with the pool fence.

I should have added that my comment was not aimed at you, just a general comment on a big mistake I have seen some grandparents make. My apologies

 

[CountryGal]

Gosh. Being a woman with a father that had few boundaries in this area but loved me unconditionally is a tough one. We butted heads many times, but I can't imagine how I would have hurt him if I had made either of these statements about boundaries. He is gone 7 years now, but I can still hear his voice guiding me in my head.

I also have a daughter who is recently married. A few times I have gotten my head handed to me on something I have said. It is sad to feel like you need to hold your tongue. This thread has been a lesson for me.

With time and maturity, your son will realize just how much you love him and his family. He will know that no matter how old he gets he will be your little boy and you want to protect him. Perhaps when he is older he will realize this and that HIS little girl will ALWAYS be HIS little girl. He will also know that he needs to give his old dad a little slack and hope his daughter will do the same for him.

Wishing you peace, love and many more blessings.

 

[Dawg52]

I wonder how this lady would have reacted if she was told to back off?

 

[Blue Collar Guy]

To the OP, I don't think you were out of line. I just think it wasn't received well.

 

[CountryGal]

OP.. in re-reading your note, you don't specifically say you are asking for the safety of their child. I'm not sure all areas have zoning to require a fence, so that makes the concern even more valid.

 

[Rustic23]

Should have put this in my post:

Outcomes

You say something and they have it covered - no real harm, they get upset,- child safe
You don't say something and they have it covered - no real harm - child save
You say something they don't have it covered - they fix it - child safe
You don't say something they don't have it covered - CHILD UNSAFE!

Personally I say something, and let them know. In the AF the last thing you want to hear walking away from an accident is 'I knew he was going to do something like this!'

 

[haha]

Should have put this in my post:

Outcomes

You say something and they have it covered - no real harm, they get upset,- child safe
You don't say something and they have it covered - no real harm - child save
You say something they don't have it covered - they fix it - child safe
You don't say something they don't have it covered - CHILD UNSAFE!

Personally I say something, and let them know. In the AF the last thing you want to hear walking away from an accident is 'I knew he was going to do something like this!'

I think young people today tend to want to get their advice from online experts, rather than family. My grandparents helped my parents be better parents, and i listened to advice from older family members, not just GPs, when we had children. It is incredibly stupid for someone who often has not even been around younger siblings as babies to reject well meaning help from GPs, because the parent generation with the new baby are proof that GPs did at least a reasonable job of child rearing.

Nevertheless, I am sensitive to pissing off the downline inlaws so I try to be a good (and useless) modern GP and pretty much keep quiet.

My former wife's uncle possibly saved my life by helping me to learn about tractors "climbing the gears" and flipping over backward to kill the operator. Most of us are stupid about many things, and some of these things are very dangerous to work out for oneself.

Anyway, i didn't design our obviously sub- optimal social system, so I pretty much just try to go along. It could easily be worse.

Ha

 

[RunningBum]

Should have put this in my post:

Outcomes

You say something and they have it covered - no real harm, they get upset,- child safe
You don't say something and they have it covered - no real harm - child save
You say something they don't have it covered - they fix it - child safe
You don't say something they don't have it covered - CHILD UNSAFE!

Personally I say something, and let them know. In the AF the last thing you want to hear walking away from an accident is 'I knew he was going to do something like this!'

You missed a 5th outcome--

You say something they don't have it covered - they dig their heels in because they are tired of being interfered with - CHILD UNSAFE, plus they get upset.

You would hope not, but it's a human nature thing. They may intend to do it, but to prove their independence and to discourage grandparent involvement, they defer it. I can remember doing this (for much, much more minor things) when my MIL butted in.

 

[Blue Collar Guy]

I think young people today tend to want to get their advice from online experts, rather than family.

Ha

I remember hearing someone once say when they were 18 they thought their Parents were the stupidest people in the world. Then when they turned 25 they realized that they were the smartest.

 

[kaneohe]

One of our family friends is a family therapist skilled in helping folks work out their problems. Despite these skills, she has her own therapist because she recognizes that when you are a participant, instead of a 3rd party observer,
your views may be subjective , instead of objective, and may not see the whole picture as well.

 

[meierlde]

One thought consider a pool alarm as a christmas gift. These sound an alarm if something falls into the pool and there are waves in the pool. Of course if there is a dog, it might go off a lot depending on if the dog likes water.

 

[REattempt]

I'm amazed by the answers here. Three thoughts:

Honor thy father and mother. I think many have it backward in this day and age.

Assume positive intent. Why would one assume any less from the individuals who put all their emotion, time, money and love into them. Boundaries...give me a break. The grandparents earned the right, long ago, to say what they want.

I have few life regrets. One big one is that I overreacted to my mother's actions and comments made from love. She is gone. There is a heavy portion of my heart that bears the burden of my crass and selfish responses. I wouldn't wish this regret on anyone.

 

[Blue Collar Guy]

I'm amazed by the answers here. Three thoughts:

Honor thy father and mother. I think many have it backward in this day and age.

Assume positive intent. Why would one assume any less from the individuals who put all their emotion, time, money and love into them. Boundaries...give me a break. The grandparents earned the right, long ago, to say what they want.

I have few life regrets. One big one is that I overreacted to my mother's actions and comments made from love. She is gone. There is a heavy portion of my heart that bears the burden of my crass and selfish responses. I wouldn't wish this regret on anyone.

+1 I beat myself over this sometimes. Some nights, my at the time 89 year old mother would ask me to sit with her and watch Dancing With the Stars. I would complain and sometimes not do it, as I was a bit exhausted, and felt I had better things do to. Now I would give my right arm to sit with her and have a conversation that lasted more than a minute before she drifts onto some imaginary subject. My wife who is the voice of reason, tells me this "you do/did the best you could at the time". Its sort of a silver lining.