Help/Advice w/ DW's Employment Situation

[target2019]

Sounds like someone who needs an assistant who can prepare the 1st draft of resignation letter. I recommend you serve that with a glass of her favorite wine.

[ExFlyBoy5]

Quote:

Originally Posted by daylatedollarshort We've gotten three cold call phone messages in two days to buy our Bay Area house for cash. With the price of homes here, this has to be some deep pocket company behind the calls. It is a friendly woman's voice making the calls who just leaves her first name. I think it was Ashley. We just laugh because the calls are designed to have a folksy feel, which undoubtedly means there's some megacorp behind it all.

Most likely not my DW's company. Most of the acquisitions that have been made in the last month are brand new houses and are "rent ready." To the average lay person, it would be very hard to figure out who owns the homes as they are all titled in some form of an obscure out of state LLC (not a real one but in a form like this: "Roswell HSRRV # 13-DV4 GEED2C") that is tied to yet another subsidiaries subsidiary.

It's all wall street money as of late and BlackRock is a huge investor in SFHs (but necessarily the investors my DW is dealing with). I do know that the excel spreadsheet of recently purchased homes is 60 some-odd pages. Here is a recent article that summarizes some of what is going on:

https://slate.com/business/2021/06/b...al-estate.html

Quote:

Let’s focus on Invitation Homes, a $21 billion publicly traded company that was spun off from Blackstone, the world’s largest private equity company, in 2017. Invitation Homes operates in 16 cities, with the biggest concentration in Atlanta, where it owns 12,556 houses. (Though that’s not much compared with the 80,000 homes sold in Atlanta each year, Invitation Homes bought 90 percent of the homes for sale in some ZIP codes in Atlanta in the early 2010s.) While normal people typically pay a mortgage interest rate between 2 percent and 4 percent these days, Invitation Homes can borrow money for far less: It’s getting billion-dollar loans at interest rates around 1.4 percent. In practice, this means that Invitation Homes can afford to tack on an extra $5,000 to $20,000 to the purchase price of every home, while getting the house at the same actual cost as a typical homeowner. While Invitation Homes uses a mixture of debt and cash from renters to buy houses, its offers are almost always all cash, which is a big leg up in a competitive market.

[Bamaman]

The real estate business is ultra competitive, and there are most likely other locally owned property management firms in town that'd love to have your wife work for them.

The situation reminds me of Johnny Paycheck's popular tune, "Take This Job and Shove It." Sounds fitting in this situation.

[jazz4cash]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bamaman The real estate business is ultra competitive, and there are most likely other locally owned property management firms in town that'd love to have your wife work for them. The situation reminds me of Johnny Paycheck's popular tune, "Take This Job and Shove It." Sounds fitting in this situation.

Yup. I bet she could go out on her own as well. Probably lots of property owners needing good management. She maybe knows many of them already. Especially small landlords that want to shift to less hands on. I struggled with convincing DW to fully evaluate the income vs. ALL the requirements of the job. In our case it was a terrible commute. We needed her to be happy and enjoy her work way more than we needed the $$$$. High pressure work situation is not healthy.

[stargazer08]

It might take a bit longer but your wife will probably know when she has had enough. It took me 2 years into my current job of 3.5 years to listen to my husband and decide to quit. The work it self is easy peasy. The schedule is another level of insanity that I have finally decided I no longer am willing to tolerate. Being lied to twice by the powers that be in conjunction with the schedule tipped the scale to quit for me. My last day will be December 31st unless they invite me to leave sooner. I haven't decided when to give notice. Maybe December 1st in hopes that they show me to door that same day. LOL

[pacergal]

Op--
At some point, probably sooner than later, your frustration will boil over. You can not be helpful if you are so stressed from her stress!! How you can help her see this, I am not sure.

Why does she want to continue working? Have you actually sat down and discussed this, listing Pros/cons. Is it a carry over from her upbringing that she "has" to work to a certain age? Does she truly understand where you are financially as a couple?
If she really just wants to work, can she take a part time job doing something else that interests her, even at less income?
Can you convince her to request a 3-6 month sabbatical? She could de stress, think about plans, look for another job and still have her job to go back too if she wanted.

Just throwing out ideas.
In reality, she will be the only one to decide when she is ready to quit/retire. If her stress is affecting you, it may get to the point where you have to tell her that you love and support her, but can no longer be a sounding board, as it causes you too much stress and that was possibly a reason you retired, too. :-)

[Katsmeow]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunningBum Why is finding a job to make the $$$ she is now even a factor, given that you are FI? Assuming you can't get her to retire, why not try to look for an ideal job and work conditions without regard to how much it pays?

This! If you are FI, then she has the ability to take any job that she finds interesting and fun to do and doesn't have to be driven by money. I would have loved to be in that position when I was working.

FI doesn't have to mean that you quit working. It means you have choices and don't have to driven by finances in choosing work. That is an awesome position to be in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExFlyBoy5 I guess really, I need to come to terms with the fact that she has to deal with this in her own way and I need to just be the supportive husband. I will continue to periodically send her some financial scenarios her way, too.

On the supportive thing, I think that is to a point. That is, yes, you can support her choice to do this if she wants to. On the other hand, if she is constantly complaining and saying "yes, but" to any solutions then I think it is not out of line for you to decline to spend much time talking to her about it. (You have not said she is doing that). If I complain to DH constantly about something but choose to keep doing in then there is a point, I think, where he may feel he can't add anything more to the discussion and it is just frustrating to him.

[pb4uski]

See if you can convince her to take a break. Just quit or tell them that she needs an extended leave of absence because the work is excessive and be assertive about it.

Commit to taking at least 3 months off. You can afford it and it isn't worth the stress that it causes her.

She can always later set up her own property management shop later if that is what she wants and take on smaller mom and pop clients and limit the number of clients she takes on for a comfortable workload.

[eytonxav]

What about if she left and got involved in community service as a volunteer which might be more rewarding and on her time schedule vs being an employee and the headaches that can come with that?

[latexman]

There is an old fable, called Boiling Frog, that serves as a metaphor for your DW's situation.

[ExFlyBoy5]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazz4cash Yup. I bet she could go out on her own as well. Probably lots of property owners needing good management. She maybe knows many of them already. Especially small landlords that want to shift to less hands on. I struggled with convincing DW to fully evaluate the income vs. ALL the requirements of the job. In our case it was a terrible commute. We needed her to be happy and enjoy her work way more than we needed the $$$$. High pressure work situation is not healthy.

I have made that suggestion but she doesn't want anything to do with it and I don't really blame her. RE can take over your life and she had this issue when she started out in sales. She made a lot of money and was wildly successful, but her time was not her own. Property management is much the same. Another issue would be trying to find employees/help. She has been recruiting VERY hard for her employer now and has had very little luck finding anyone with any experience or anyone who is newly licensed and "hungry." So, it is about the worst time to try and start a business.

She has a colleague that did start his own firm about a year ago and he has tried to get her to come over, but her NDA precludes that (due to the business relationship with him). As a matter of fact, his company is in court right now because of his NDA. She *could* try and fight it, but it could be an expensive proposition and it's not worth it in our mind.

[ExFlyBoy5]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pacergal Op-- At some point, probably sooner than later, your frustration will boil over. You can not be helpful if you are so stressed from her stress!! How you can help her see this, I am not sure. Why does she want to continue working? Have you actually sat down and discussed this, listing Pros/cons. Is it a carry over from her upbringing that she "has" to work to a certain age? Does she truly understand where you are financially as a couple? If she really just wants to work, can she take a part time job doing something else that interests her, even at less income? Can you convince her to request a 3-6 month sabbatical? She could de stress, think about plans, look for another job and still have her job to go back too if she wanted. Just throwing out ideas. In reality, she will be the only one to decide when she is ready to quit/retire. If her stress is affecting you, it may get to the point where you have to tell her that you love and support her, but can no longer be a sounding board, as it causes you too much stress and that was possibly a reason you retired, too. :-)

Thanks for the ideas. She very well understands our financial situation. I don't think it could much clearer since she currently saves 100% of her income. Yes, ALL OF IT. I don't think it's a finance thing, it's deeper than that.

As I have mentioned in other threads, her parents are still working. Absolutely no reason to. If I had to guess, their net worth is well over 10mm. Her dad is in his early 70s and her mom is in her late 60s and they own several businesses. They have competent management in place and could simply sit back and relax, but nope...they refuse to even though both have health issues. They built their wealth from nothing and have earned every dime; a true rag to riches story. So, I can only guess that w*rk is just in their blood.

I have asked DW if she just wants the same wealth and she tells me no, that is not it and acknowledges we have "enough." She's a pit bull, so I think in her mind if she leaves the job, she's a quitter.

Unfortunately, there is no sabbatical available with her employer. She would be replaced immediately.

I think it's really just a sit back and wait. I honestly don't think she could take much more.

[OldShooter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExFlyBoy5 ... She has a colleague that did start his own firm about a year ago and he has tried to get her to come over, but her NDA precludes that (due to the business relationship with him). As a matter of fact, his company is in court right now because of his NDA. She *could* try and fight it, but it could be an expensive proposition and it's not worth it in our mind.

"NDA" includes non-compete? In our state they are very hard to enforce. Regardless, though, if she is interested in that, the tactic would probably be to free ride on the colleague's court case and see the results before deciding what to do about her agreement.

[pb4uski]

That and wouldn't her NDA expire when she leaves or soon thereafter? An NDA for a property manager seems a bit strange too.

[OldShooter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pb4uski That and wouldn't her NDA expire when she leaves or soon thereafter? An NDA for a property manager seems a bit strange too.

An NDA would prevent her from using any customer and vendor contact information that might have been in her possession. I had a friend who bailed on his boss to start his own business. I'm sure he had my phone number memorized as we were a top customer, but he was very careful to use and tell me he was using information from a public industry directory when he called to prospect me.

My guess is the OP is including the idea of a noncompete when he says "NDA."

[ExFlyBoy5]

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldShooter "NDA" includes non-compete? In our state they are very hard to enforce. Regardless, though, if she is interested in that, the tactic would probably be to free ride on the colleague's court case and see the results before deciding what to do about her agreement.

Sorry, yes part of it is a non-compete. It is effectively written and are usually successfully enforced in our neck of the woods.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pb4uski That and wouldn't her NDA expire when she leaves or soon thereafter? An NDA for a property manager seems a bit strange too.

She's not a property manager, she's part of the executive management team. The non-compete provision is 12 months.

[pb4uski]

I would look at the non-compete and see what the provisions are and how long it lasts after she leaves. Similar to OldShooter, non-competes are very hard to enforce.... I had a lawyer review mine before I signed and the lawyer said it was not worth the paper it was written on.

[OldShooter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pb4uski I would look at the non-compete and see what the provisions are and how long it lasts after she leaves. Similar to OldShooter, non-competes are very hard to enforce. ...

Probably the OP will have to hire a lawyer in his state with specific experience in breaking or trying to break these.

[pb4uski]

IIRC, OP is a lawyer so he should be able to do some of the background research.

[jollystomper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExFlyBoy5 I think it's really just a sit back and wait. I honestly don't think she could take much more.

One approach, along your above observation, to consider: you mentioned how it has you frustrated, and gave an example of you being much harder on others (the contractor situation) due to this frustration. Perhaps consider ways that you can help yourself see the situation so that you lessen your frustration, in a way that helps her perceive how enjoyable retirement can be?

I suggest this based on my experience, which of course is not yours. My DW continued to work after I retired, but once she noticed how much I was enjoying retirement, how nothing really bothered or upset me, and how I had all the time in the world, it turned her mind towards first reducing her load (giving up university teacher) and this year retiring completely.

Simple things she noticed. For example, when planning trips, I always told her "I'm flexible and can work around your schedule" - which was a reversal from when I worked and had to travel for work a lot. Or she seeing me even more laid back, and laughing a "surprise" situations and just dealing with them without complaining. My response to her would be "if I could not deal with the time/expense, I would not have retired".

Eventually she saw me, in her words, "having too much fun" - and decided she wanted that ability herself.

Again, this varies by relationships and personalities, so one's mileage may vary.