Help! Trying to pay for art commissioned in Italy

[Amethyst]

Well, I am flummoxed.

While in Venice recently on a tour, we stopped at a small glass shop a few steps off the main tourist area. I admired a mosaic mirror, and asked the proprietor if they could create a larger version and ship it to me in the U.S. He readily agreed. He took a deposit, in Euros of course, on my Master Card which does not charge a foreign transaction fee.

They've emailed photos of the finished mirror, but now they say they can't accept my Master Card unless I am actually in their shop. They have emailed me instructions (in Italian) for "a draft on your bank." I don't understand the instructions, I'm sure my credit union won't understand them, and even if they do, I am liable for a big foreign transaction charge.

How should I handle this? I really want the mirror; it's gorgeous.

[DrRoy]

If they won't accept some other form of payment, you may be able to reverse the deposit on the MC. And lose the item of course.

[The Cosmic Avenger]

Ask them if they accept PayPal, and if they do, you could still use the MasterCard. But your bank should be able to do a bank draft, I would be really surprised if there is a bank that doesn't. More importantly, what are their fees for drafts, and is there a cheaper way to do the same thing, like a wire or EFT to the merchant's account?

[Bestwifeever]

I wonder if they don’t want to pay the merchant percentage to the CC company—maybe you can offer to cover that.

[Senator]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrRoy If they won't accept some other form of payment, you may be able to reverse the deposit on the MC. And lose the item of course.

That would be wrong, assuming they actually created the piece. You give a deposit, they accepted it, and you cannot deliver payment...

Wire the money from Fidelity, it will be free. Call MasterCard and ask what the difference is, you already have their merchant information.

Maybe they lost the MC contract for some reason, MC would likely know.

[Amethyst]

I agree - they did create it. I am sure they could resell it, but a) I want it and b) I don't welsh on contracts, which this was. Still, I don't also want to pay large foreign-transaction fees on top of the rather stiff cost of the piece itself.

They say they can accept a CC (and they did, for my deposit). But that it can only be in person. Their English is not so great and my Italian is nil, so I'm not delving into the whys and wherefores. But will follow your suggestions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator That would be wrong, assuming they actually created the piece. You give a deposit, they accepted it, and you cannot deliver payment...

[pb4uski]

Sounds to me like a good reason to take another trip to Venice so you can go to their shop and pay with your MasterCard.

Have you called MasterCard to see if they can intervene and help out?

[OldShooter]

I would start by calling the nearest Italian consulate and asking for advice and help . At a minimum they should be able to translate the wire instructions.

[Jerry1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pb4uski Sounds to me like a good reason to take another trip to Venice so you can go to their shop and pay with your MasterCard. Have you called MasterCard to see if they can intervene and help out?

My thoughts exactly. Of course the trip sounds best, but I’d get MC involved. I think it’s actually good that the won’t accept the card without it physically being there, but of course in this case that presents a problem. MC should be able to verify your identity and pay the merchant, especially since you already have the deposit transaction to work from.

[Senator]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amethyst They say they can accept a CC (and they did, for my deposit). But that it can only be in person. Their English is not so great and my Italian is nil, so I'm not delving into the whys and wherefores. But will follow your suggestions.

Perhaps having a person fluent in Italian speak with them may help?

Maybe it's in their MC contract? Maybe the next time you call you get a different person and answer?

[marko]

Just back from another trip to Europe, every merchant is now using hand-held chip-based readers. I wonder if they cannot manually enter the CC number.

I would suppose however that there should be a way for them to use the same CC card/number that you gave your deposit with.

[gauss]

The foreign transaction fee would be the least of my worries. If someone from another country writes to me requesting that I send then a bank draft, my fraud senses would be on very high alert.

Are you sure that the person who sent you the letter is the store owner (an assumed trusted entity and not some rogue employee or another third party?)

Are you sure that the store owner is not pulling a fast one on you?

They will likely pay a slightly higher merchant fee for a card-not-present transaction than normal. Perhaps this is a business decision on their part.

Either way I would proceed with caution and be ready to walk away from the deal. Remember that you have some leverage here in that they have already done the work for you and if alternate forms of payment were not discussed up front, then a reasonable person would assume that your initial deposit form of payment would be accepted for final payment.

It seems that PayPal is an Internationally recognized payment platform. I think you can send money to an arbitrary email address and if it is not in their system, they will send an email about how to create an account and claim the funds. I believe that you can cancel the payment before the funds are actually claimed on their end if they delay too long.

-gauss

p.s. If it has been less than 60 days, you still may have an opportunity to contest this with your CC company. Although I initially had the reaction that you ethically cannot do that, upon reflecting upon this for a few minutes, I conclude that if you cannot work out a payment method that is mutually acceptable and doesn't involve you assuming undo risk,then the deposit should be refunded. They are the business here and should have the burden of making these things clear up front.

[dirtbiker]

I absolutely 100% would NOT do a draft from my bank account to pay for something overseas (or anywhere), particularly if written in a language I wasn't fluent in. Too high of a risk IMO.

I also recommend using PayPal. It is very safe, definitely biased toward the buyer in disputes, and it is so universal that my fraud sense would be even more alerted if they refused PayPal. It's SO easy to receive money via PayPal.

There would be no reason for you to expect to have paid the remainder of the bill with anything else other than the form of payment initially used for the deposit, unless this was discussed at the time of deposit. IMO, it is up to them to find a form of payment that you are comfortable using.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator That would be wrong, assuming they actually created the piece. You give a deposit, they accepted it, and you cannot deliver payment...

I would agree with this, except that they are not accepting his payment, the same payment that he paid a deposit with. A reasonable person would assume that the card used for the deposit would also be used for the full payment, unless explicitly stated otherwise. I'd try to avoid this if possible in the OP's situation, but if it came down to it, and they tried to force a payment option I wasn't comfortable with, I wouldn't hesitate to cancel the order and get the deposit back from my card company.

[OldShooter]

This crowd is really getting spun up. How much money are we talking about here? One or two times a year we wire $Ks to pay a tour company in one country or another, many of them less solid than OECD members like Italy. Never once had a problem.

Also this is not some random request; it is coming from a company that the OP knows and it is an expected request. I don't think there is any trust issue here at all; it is simply an implementation detail to get them the dough.

[Teacher Terry]

If they won’t take the card or PayPal I would definitely contest the deposit.

[cathy63]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amethyst They have emailed me instructions (in Italian) for "a draft on your bank." I don't understand the instructions, I'm sure my credit union won't understand them, and even if they do, I am liable for a big foreign transaction charge.

I can't tell, have you asked your credit union about this or are you assuming they won't understand it? My CU would be able to do this, though they would recommend a wire transfer instead of using an international bank draft. They have a partnership with OFX for international wire transfers (https://www.ofx.com/en-us/). The exchange rates are about the same as using a CC and there's no foreign transaction fee. You just have to have the recipient's banking info with their Swift and/or IBAN codes. Can you tell if they've provided that info in the Italian letter?

[Amethyst]

It's not a trivial amount.

The people themselves do not raise my fraud hackles. I was the one who asked for the piece to be made; they've sent several photos of it being worked on; and to top it all off, their shop has a resident cat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldShooter This crowd is really getting spun up. How much money are we talking about here? .

[Senator]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amethyst ...and to top it all off, their shop has a resident cat.

That makes it all worthwhile! (now if they had a dog...)

[bigreader]

I am guessing that they sent you information on how to pay by making a deposit into their account. Sort of like writing a check. This is the usual way that people pay their bills in the EU. Personally, I would not suspect that it is a scam. You know these folks, they know you. They have done the work you wanted. Nothing is 100% but what they are asking is not really out of the ordinary. It is just different from what we do here.

Put the document into Google Translate and see what you get (Sorry, consulates don't do translations, although they may have referrals to translators. I don't know that you really need one, though.) Normally, you will see a SWIFT or a BIC number (this is like a routing code and identifies the bank and the branch), and IBAN number (which identifies the payee who has an account at the bank). You will probably see the name and address of the bank and the business name of the payee.

If my guess is correct, I'd use Transferwise to make this payment but there is a different thread for that! Your bank, paypal, Zoom, it's a matter of what you are comfortable with.

I hope that this works out for you and that you will enjoy the mirror. It sounds beautiful.


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[RobbieB]

You should bring the instructions to your bank and talk to them about it.