help with HOA

[eytonxav]

If its not mandated in the CCRs or another HOA governing document, I would say you are within your rights to refuse and make them provide evidence to the contrary. Normally to make a change to the CCRs most boards cannot do so without a proxy vote by a majority of members, so its doubtful they could have updated the CCRs to cover a tree without your knowledge.

[COcheesehead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by badatmath I don't have the slightest idea who is on the board. They only meet once a year so far as I know. Less than 50 houses - it has never been very formal.

You should probably educate yourself more on the board. They can be helpful or not. The manager is just a hired hand of the board.
You were required to be given the HOA docs when you bought. I would reference back to those. There may also be a website for your HOA. Who do you send payments to? Ask them how to contact the board.

No offense to you, but when I served on HOA boards, the problems always arose when 1. Residents didn’t know or care to take time to know the rules or 2. They didn’t think they applied to them.

I would figure out who is on the board and reach out to them.

All this makes me worry that your HOA probably also doesn’t have a reserve study which is a hidden time bomb for special assessments.

You live there, I would get up to speed on the doings of the HOA or more surprises may be in your future.

[MrsHaloFIRE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobbieB Screw 'em then. If they want a tree, they can put it in.

Preach

[Walt34]

Here's a tree that might make everyone happy. They didn't say what kind of tree...

https://www.amazon.com/Brussels-Bons...s%2C233&sr=8-2

[CardsFan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt34 Here's a tree that might make everyone happy. They didn't say what kind of tree... https://www.amazon.com/Brussels-Bons...s%2C233&sr=8-2

Perfect!
If it was me, I would put one of those out there just prove a point.

[pb4uski]

Quote:

Originally Posted by badatmath I have a letter here from the management company last Nov that states having a tree is not in the CC&Rs it was a request. I requested to not have one and she said sure. As of yesterday they seem to have decided it is an actual "rule" thought I have not been provided "proof" of this rule. I really don't want the damn thing as I do not have space but of course I am not going to sue the HOA either. (The last nursery I had refused to plant one - so it will be a hassle - I was trying to be "nice" by going along with the "request"). Any suggestions? I am rather upset over this as I thought it was long since settled. It is far too hot to plant right now (in AZ) by my way of thinking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by badatmath Yes. They just replied to me that all properties look better with trees. They apparently want me to have the lines marked again and shop around until I get some fool to dig a hole . . . where I have been told is not enough room. I would guess its like 12 inches between electric and cable. I guess I will need to get stakes and have it marked in a way that does not wash off. Whole thing seems ridiculous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by badatmath The CC&R just state all dead plants must be replaced. Which they been. Just with other things. . . . And the current board just showed up last year - i been here 20 and its not been a problem.

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Originally Posted by badatmath Yep there is no plant list or "all yards must have 1 tree and 2 bushes" or anything like that. It is mostly about being free of weeds, trash, pink flamingos, removing dead plants . .

So let me see if I have the facts straight. None of the written documents of the HOA require a tree. There are numerous other properties in the HOA that do not have trees. You have been there for 20 years and have not had a tree during those 20 years.

If so, it sounds to me like the current iteration of the board has a preference for trees but that it has never been codified in any of the written rules. I'd just tell them that you prefer not to have a tree and that arborists have advised that you don't have sufficient room for a tree and as a result you are disinclined to plant a tree. If they don't like it they can write to your lawyers... Stall, Hinder and Delay.

[badatmath]

Yep we have no reserves (well not many) I bitched about it last year and no one cared. Was basically told the board can do what they like. I think we have like 10k and the required is like 70k - don't remember now exactly but it is a huge discrepancy. I asked when we getting an assessment and they were pretty much like shut up. My state did not have any way to "make" them fund it I looked up the law. These are SFH and not attached or anything but there are plenty of things we have to pay for.

Walt24 - one of the neighbors put a fake ficus out last year . It only last about 2 days before they noticed.

pb4uski - Yep you got it in one. Thanks for the laugh. But they keep escalating. Actually maybe I can get something from the people who refuse the work . . or get the lines marked and get an arborist out there to say so.
Yes, I plan to move one day. . . but not today.

[Sunset]

OP - Run for the board. Since there are few homeowners, you can simply go house to house and tell folks you are running.
It would be good to have a goal: clean up the mismanagement and waste of money happening always seems to gather votes
If any homes are rentals, ask the tenant for the landlords address and write/phone them for their proxy vote.

[The Cosmic Avenger]

I would not try to placate them, as people who feel that the rules are what they think or say they are often do that because they like the feeling of power of pushing people around. They're basically the (barely) adult version of a schoolyard bully. If you tell them no and there's nothing in the rules about having to have a tree, there's not much they can do other than bluster and threaten.

[eytonxav]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Cosmic Avenger I would not try to placate them, as people who feel that the rules are what they think or say they are often do that because they like the feeling of power of pushing people around. They're basically the (barely) adult version of a schoolyard bully. If you tell them no and there's nothing in the rules about having to have a tree, there's not much they can do other than bluster and threaten.

As an HOA President I love that commercial that has Cynthia the HOA nazi. We have one member on our board who is like that and managing his antics is worse than any problem homeowners.

[badatmath]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Cosmic Avenger I would not try to placate them, as people who feel that the rules are what they think or say they are often do that because they like the feeling of power of pushing people around. They're basically the (barely) adult version of a schoolyard bully. If you tell them no and there's nothing in the rules about having to have a tree, there's not much they can do other than bluster and threaten.

I suspect you are right. They have upset quite a few of the neighbors but no one want to do it - a few already have and went nope never again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunset OP - Run for the board.

I don't think I have the temperament for it though I like to think I am relatively reasonable person. I don't want to give myself fits of crazy - I get that at w*rk. I don't think it would be difficult to win - so far as I know they never get enough votes anyway.

[rk911]

Quote:

Originally Posted by badatmath I suspect you are right. They have upset quite a few of the neighbors but no one want to do it - a few already have and went nope never again. I don't think I have the temperament for it though I like to think I am relatively reasonable person. I don't want to give myself fits of crazy - I get that at w*rk. I don't think it would be difficult to win - so far as I know they never get enough votes anyway.

i don’t intend this to sound harsh or uncaring but if you’re not willing to stand up for yourself nobody else likely will. if you don’t want to do a person-to-person thing then write back to the mgmt company asking them to cite chapter and verse.

[ExFlyBoy5]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pb4uski In our condo association the rules are published and are on the association website. If they haven't provided you and other owners with written rules, then there are no rules. Sounds like they are making stuff up. Are there other properties in your HOA that do not have a tree?

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Originally Posted by rk911 in that case i'd, politely at first, demand, er, ask, your board to show you chapter and verse. it's their burden to prove the rule, not yours. absent that i wouldn't do a thing.

This information could get some folks in trouble that don't understand how a covenant works or how it might apply to a homeowner. Why you ask? Well...

More often than not, the covenants are recorded with the county clerk's office (or similar entity) when the neighborhood is created and *may* be provided when you purchase the home (as the first owner, or perhaps a subsequent purchaser). If it's recorded, even if you aren't provided a copy, you are most likely on the hook for the restrictions since it was available to you through the public filing since the restrictions "run with the land" and shouldn't be ignored. -This is very general information and not all jurisdictions follow this rule, so YMMV.

I have seen examples like this where a homeowner refused said tree/bush/etc. and the HOA went ahead and planted one for the homeowner and sent them the bill. Sound ridiculous? It happens every day and many homeowner's grant permission for the HOA to do such a thing. The issue is that when people get the HOA docs (or are know that they exist) but try and ignore them, they get super pissed off that the "HOA TRESPASSED!!! I AM NOT PAYING THIS BILL!!!!" when they fail to realize that they agreed to it when they bought the house.

OP, if the rule is indeed in the covenants but it hasn't been enforced for 20 years, then you may have an acquiescence defense, but tread lightly in this arena!

[rk911]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExFlyBoy5 This information could get some folks in trouble that don't understand how a covenant works or how it might apply to a homeowner. Why you ask? Well... More often than not, the covenants are recorded with the county clerk's office (or similar entity) when the neighborhood is created and *may* be provided when you purchase the home (as the first owner, or perhaps a subsequent purchaser). If it's recorded, even if you aren't provided a copy, you are most likely on the hook for the restrictions since it was available to you through the public filing since the restrictions "run with the land" and shouldn't be ignored. -This is very general information and not all jurisdictions follow this rule, so YMMV. I have seen examples like this where a homeowner refused said tree/bush/etc. and the HOA went ahead and planted one for the homeowner and sent them the bill. Sound ridiculous? It happens every day and many homeowner's grant permission for the HOA to do such a thing. The issue is that when people get the HOA docs (or are know that they exist) but try and ignore them, they get super pissed off that the "HOA TRESPASSED!!! I AM NOT PAYING THIS BILL!!!!" when they fail to realize that they agreed to it when they bought the house. OP, if the rule is indeed in the covenants but it hasn't been enforced for 20 years, then you may have an acquiescence defense, but tread lightly in this arena!

sorry, but i don't see the need to tread lightly. my demand was crossed off as a pitiful attempt at humor. but respectfully asking to see the specific rule or covenant is not an unreasonable approach. blind obedience is not a good strategy.

[38Chevy454]

One potential problem is "interpretation" of the rule. So ensure you have the exact wording. Agree that dealing with power trip members on the board can be tough.
I was on the architectural committee at my old house neighborhood. I viewed the job as helping people to be able to do what they wanted within the rules. I absolutely did not play cop and try to find rule violations. Seems your board is not of the same viewpoint as I was.

[badatmath]

It is like they hope we do something wrong! Even if they have to stretch to find it. Going to cost a few bucks if they buy trees for all the houses that don't have one - maybe 1/2 the people.

I ventured out today for the first time lately and that 3 of the 4 people they have bullied into planting have dead trees now. . . um it is too hot to plant new trees in the desert in the middle of summer!!! I guess now they can fine them for dead trees WHILE nagging them to get new ones?! Like double the fun!

[pb4uski]

I think your best path is to keep a low profile, go dark on them as much as you can.. don't return phone calls or emails and hope they move on to others and ultimately they give up.

But if they do get on you just fib a little and tell them you talked with counsel and were advised that they don't have a leg to stand on so you're not inclined to do anything.

[Souschef]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pb4uski . I'd just tell them that you prefer not to have a tree and that arborists have advised that you don't have sufficient room for a tree and as a result you are disinclined to plant a tree. If they don't like it they can write to your lawyers... Stall, Hinder and Delay.

Or contact my lawyers: Hung Drawn and Quartered

[The Cosmic Avenger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Souschef Or contact my lawyers: Hung Drawn and Quartered

I prefer the firm of Dewey, Cheatham, and Howe.

[a60dan]

Many people make statements they cannot back up.

As previously recommended, ask for the specific requirements in writing, referencing the sections that you agreed to.

95% of the blowhards I deal with can’t read, let alone write, the instructions to inflate a life raft 😄

Document your position that without “chapter & verse”, you will take no action.

This makes me want to ask for the discussion on “Why would I ever want an HOA?”, but don’t let me hijack this one.....