"Homophobia": The right term?

[Nords]

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Originally Posted by Coach Interesting joke. But why does it work? Is getting hit on by drunk "straight" guys a not uncommon experience? Or something else?

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Originally Posted by lazygood4nothinbum as to getting hit on by drunk str8 guys, let's face it: drunk guys are horny guys and drink releases inhibitions.

With apologies to George Bernard Shaw, we're not debating our sexual preferences-- just about how little alcohol it takes to push the "boundaries".

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Originally Posted by lazygood4nothinbum yes, perhaps it was too small a sample size. that can often be the problem.

The Hawaiian word is "mahu", and I can't ever remember reading or hearing anything pejorative among native Hawaiians about the subject. I think it's just viewed as genetics, not a lifestyle choice or a threat to reproduction, not a controversy. Any other locals here seen something different?

Many high schools here have gay/lesbian support groups. Straight students join to be with their friends or to participate in neat activities-- or maybe because they're hoping to "convert" someone of the opposite sex. Not something you would have seen being sponsored by a teacher or joined by students in 1970s Pittsburgh!

I'm surprised that this thread has gotten so far without invoking Seinfeld's Law-- "not that there's anything wrong with that!"

[lazygood4nothinbum]

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Originally Posted by Zipper Whenever you encounter the term "born again", treat the entity "certifiable nutter."

people believe what makes them comfortable. not for me to say. if anything maybe i tried to help him understand some of the conflicts in his thinking. because he's really just looking for a nice catholic girl who will give him a bj. but as compassionate and understanding as i was trying to be, at one point during a walk along the beautiful gulf beach he got a little upset and says to me "stop making me think." so i got him three beers instead.

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Originally Posted by bpp I have to think there is a bigger difference between self-stimulation and being with another, regardless of the gender of the other. I mean, do most people really get excited by their own equipment? Think about trying to tickle oneself, for example.

understood. though i'm not sure that's a real good example since you might not be able to tickle yourself but you sure can get yourself hard.

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Originally Posted by Nords The Hawaiian word is "mahu", and I can't ever remember reading or hearing anything pejorative among native Hawaiians about the subject. I think it's just viewed as genetics, not a lifestyle choice or a threat to reproduction, not a controversy.

that would not surprise me. i forget where so i can not say as to the authenticity of the work, but i read long ago that before machismo became the fashion of the day, native americans and probably other nature-based peoples considered gays to be among the shamans of the tribes. they were the betweens. the ones who could go from male to female in one body (apparently counter to my theory), symbolic of going from physical to spiritual or from death to life.

so it might only be in these so-called enlightened modern times that gays have been relegated to the post of waiter.

[dex]

The number of homosexuals in the USA population is estimated in the 2-3% range.

I think the PERCENTAGE of homosexuals will increase as the population increases. I remember a study of animals in which a forced over population was created. (I think they had a limited space size and then breed several generations in that space. The scientists monitored homosexual activity to determine the percentage of the population that was considered homosexual. I do not believe the experiment was solely to determine the effect of over population on sexuality but several trates.) Maybe this is a way nature attemps to slow down population growth when there is an over population situation. How does nature do it? I'm not a scientist. But I would guess that certain stress factors that register in the mother during times of over population might trigger a harmonal response that imprints the fetus with the tendency for homosexuality.
If any one knows about the study I'm refering to please post it.
Also, don't create an urban legend with my info - it is a fuzzy recollection of something I read many years ago.

[chris2008]

To call someone homophobic who makes a nasty remark on gay people is the nicest thing I could call that person.
I can at least relate so someone who is afraid of other people.
I cannot relate to someone who looks down on others.
So I prefer to believe that he/she does it out of fear.

[lazygood4nothinbum]

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Originally Posted by dex Maybe this is a way nature attemps to slow down population growth when there is an over population situation.

and i always thought my humanitarian inclination derived from being an aqueerian. either way, glad to know i could be of service.

though that study might just prove a point of availability in close quarters. how many beers did they feed those rats?

[laurence]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dex The number of homosexuals in the USA population is estimated in the 2-3% range. I think the PERCENTAGE of homosexuals will increase as the population increases. I remember a study of animals in which a forced over population was created. (I think they had a limited space size and then breed several generations in that space. The scientists monitored homosexual activity to determine the percentage of the population that was considered homosexual. I do not believe the experiment was solely to determine the effect of over population on sexuality but several trates.) Maybe this is a way nature attemps to slow down population growth when there is an over population situation. How does nature do it? I'm not a scientist. But I would guess that certain stress factors that register in the mother during times of over population might trigger a harmonal response that imprints the fetus with the tendency for homosexuality. If any one knows about the study I'm refering to please post it. Also, don't create an urban legend with my info - it is a fuzzy recollection of something I read many years ago.

Too lazy to look for the article now, but recently there was a study which indicated a link between homosexuality in males and the hormone/antibody levels in the mother's womb. It noted that the likelyhood for a male to be homosexual increased if he was not the first son born and increased progressively as it went to 2nd, 3rd, etc.

That would seem to fit with that notion of population control, but on a more micro level. Everybody knows you don't need very many breeding men to keep the population going.

- article/study didn't cover homosexual women at all as I recall.

But I'm still a little bit skeptical of a "master plan" on this front. I mean, the % of homosexuals in the population is so low as to not really present an effective brake on population growth IMHO. Sometimes stuff just happens.

My daughter has Down Syndrome and we belong to support groups etc. The parents there will go on about how our children are here to teach us this, to shine a light, etc. and while those are nice thoughts, and I love my daughter more than I could express, I'm fine with just saying, "stuff happens". People have said, "what's up with that 21st allele?" that ends up "messing up" so much more than other genes (Down Syndrome is also known as Trisomy 21 - instead of getting one from mom and one from dad, somehow you got two from one parent and end up with three - "tri" - 21st alleles). Maybe it was meant to so we'd have these little angels! But the truth is, all the genes are susceptible to this, some may be more than others, but they all can. The key is, with the 21st, the embryo does not stop developing due to the error - it's speculated the 21st carries a smaller payload of genetic instructions. With other Trisomy conditions ( Trisomy 18, 11 I think are two) the embryo just stops developing most of the time (occasionally babies will be born with this or others - I'm sketchy on the details here - but they usually don't survive long).

It's a long rambling way of saying that while I'm guilty as anyone of asking "why?" it's sometimes o.k. for the answer to be "just because".

[bright eyed]

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Originally Posted by lazygood4nothinbum that would not surprise me. i forget where so i can not say as to the authenticity of the work, but i read long ago that before machismo became the fashion of the day, native americans and probably other nature-based peoples considered gays to be among the shamans of the tribes. they were the betweens. the ones who could go from male to female in one body (apparently counter to my theory), symbolic of going from physical to spiritual or from death to life. so it might only be in these so-called enlightened modern times that gays have been relegated to the post of waiter.

yes, i have heard some indigenous cultures refer to it as "twin spirited"

something that has been around as long as human history seems silly we can't wrap our minds around it - or that we actually devolved!

i also think part of homophobia is because we have such a restricted understanding of sexuality - that we all don't allow or are taught to explore our sexual feelings and the wide variety of things that go with that, that people freak out - if you're gay or you are hitting on me, does that mean i'm gay?!

i believe in the spectrum - some are super on one end or the other, most of us are all over the rest of the spectrum. just cuz you didn't "always feel different" or know since you were young, doesn't mean you can't be sexually attracted to someone of your same sex and that also doesn't mean you are gay or aren't straight... i have friends who are tri - try anything!

[Caroline]

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It's a long rambling way of saying that while I'm guilty as anyone of asking "why?" it's sometimes o.k. for the answer to be "just because".

What a lovely thought, Laurence. Thanks for sharing it.

[Helen]

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Originally Posted by Laurence My daughter has Down Syndrome and we belong to support groups etc. The parents there will go on about how our children are here to teach us this, to shine a light, etc. and while those are nice thoughts, and I love my daughter more than I could express, I'm fine with just saying, "stuff happens".

People with Down Syndrome are the kindest people in the world. I have a feeling you are very blessed indeed.

If I had adopted a child, I think I would have chosen one with Down Syndrome. They live the word love.

[bosco]

Although I am str8, I've always felt that I would make an exception for Van Morrison, should the opportunity ever arise....

there....now that's off my chest

[TromboneAl]

The problem is with language. As LG4NB said, many terms come to gain new meaning based on their usage.

For example, "That has a steep learning curve" has come to mean that something is hard to learn. But a learning curve plots percent of acquisition of a skill (y axis) vs. time (x axis), so the steeper it is, the faster the learning process.