How to Disguise/Cover This Wall?

[TromboneAl]

Well that changes everything! I mean, if you have a lighthouse mailbox, you just have to have a jetty!

More seriously, when did the 'jetty'/debris go in? Did it start small and grow, or

Is there any chance at all that the drive was actually 8' over on his property, and he is just trying to reclaim what is really his? Seems unlikely, but can you rule it out?

edit - sorry, cross-posted with JoeWras on the 'need' for a 'jetty'- still would like to know about timing and survey marks.

-ERD50

Pretty clearcut the rocks are on the driveway. The fence here is supposedly on the border:

He had rocks delivered. I thought he was going to put them around his foundation, then we went out and they had been arranged. IOW, all at once.

 

[gerntz]

Get rid of those shrubs on the right.

 

[pb4uski]

So I presume that the middle of the driveway is 10'? And is this alley a county right-of-way or a private right-of-way? It looks like a county right-of-way.

If so, I would tell him that if he doesn't get that crap off of the county right-of-way and onto his own property in two days that you'll file a complaint with the county.

If it is a private right-of-way then the same two days and if not then you will remove the crap that he has left on your right-of-way.... or take a bobcat and push it out of the right-of-way onto his property.

Sometimes you need to be a a$$hat to deal with an a$$hat.

 

[nativenewenglander]

ZBA would have a made a ruling on this when the back lots were created. 20' seems narrow as we made right of ways 50' wide when I was a ZBA member in my town. Your town select board is the ruling authority and should deal with this quickly as it is a safety issue for emergency services. Your neighbor could be fined each day until they are removed at a minimum.

 

[Ed B]

The guy thinks he's some kind of artist, but his stuff is just tacky.

Here are the ivy cuttings:

If it weren't illegal I would suggest kudzu but that would be illegal so I wont suggest the most invasive destructive ivy you could plant. [emoji848]

 

[CRLLS]

On 2nd thought, be careful what you ask for, the city/county/township may just treat both the rocks and the trees/evergreens the same and have them both removed.

 

[Lakewood90712]

Contacting a land use atty will be costly, but a consultation is worth a few hundred.

The county tax assessor will be able to show you who owns what on the tract map. Including city / county land for any road.

Where did you obtain that map ?

From the looks of the tract map, it's a city or county road, not an easement on private property. If so , the remedy will be exclusively with the government agency, and you don't need to spend a dime. When the smoke clears, your neighbor with the hedge may end up loosing some of it too.

 

[NW-Bound]

There should be iron stakes in the ground as demarcation points of the various corners of the individual lots. They should not be hard to find with a metal detector.

 

[Bestwifeever]

A survey is not very expensive and can be done pretty quickly. I would have that in hand before going to the city/county about this (we had one done to show encroachment on our lit—the errant neighbor who wanted to build something over the line threw up his hands claiming he had no idea and it was okay blah blah blah. Sure, but he didn’t produce a survey to prove it).

Not the same issue as the driveway, but I remembered this thread about a neighbor’s fence issue http://www.early-retirement.org/for...rty-stakes-locatable-in-the-future-82172.html (the OP and posts in the second page are pertinent) that was resolved. Good luck.

 

[atmsmshr]

Property disputes can get ugly.

Years ago, our HOA beach access was challenged. An alleged surveyor bought the beach property and correctly determined that the HOA crossover bridge was 3 Ft outside of the right of way onto his property as recorded on his deed. Of course he simply wanted to tear down the path and cross over and eliminate our access. We would never get a rebuilt cross over just because of the environmental permitting process, in part because the HOA developer did not properly record a deed right for the cross over for our HOA properties. The HOA was clearly in a bad spot.

All sorts of shenanigans then transpired between the HOA and the $sshat, including an assault arrest for a member of the HOA. More drama than a middle school. Blocking access, signs, security cameras, garbage toss, ect.

The $sshat even faked a heart attack in the courtroom- his sycophantic children grieved of his imminent demise in front of the judge while the paramedics collected his sorry $ss.

Nearly ten years and over $30,000 in legal fees for the HOA, judicial compromise is writ. Crossover bridge stayed as is but 3 Ft too far south, the foot path was moved to 3 Ft north to its originally intended location, no car or bike parking allowed, and numb nuts got to build his own private beach access.

If the HOA had not maintained regular use of the access, a very different outcome would have happened.

Recommendation - talk with property lawyer asap before doing anything to minimize surprises.

 

[Ronstar]

The space between lots 39 and 43 that Al uses for access is a public right of way according to the plat of subdivision that Al posted. The public has rights to use the 20' strip - it is essentially a public street. Most public streets can also be used by utility companies to install and maintain underground and overhead lines to service the lots. Title to the right of way lies in the municipality, town, city, county, or whatever government agency that accepted the platted right of way and maintains it.

Anyone other than the municipality, etc or utility companies that builds anything in the 20' right of way is doing so on property that they do not own.

I recommend that Al hires a surveyor to have a survey done on the 20' right of way between lots 39 and 43. Have the surveyor locate the boundary stakes, rock wall, pavement, above ground utility structures (poles, etc), and make a plat drawing showing all of these items.

Have the surveyor put lath (4' high or so wood stakes) with survey ribbon next to property pins. Take photos of the 20' right of way with the property stakes visible in the photos in addition to the wall, and other items in the right of way. Do this soon after the survey before the wooden stakes get removed.

Take the survey and photos to the agency that maintains the roadway. Explain that the public use of the roadway is impaired by the rock wall and ask them to remove the wall or take measures to have the wall removed.

If you get no satisfaction from the municipality, hire a lawyer. Show the lawyer the survey and photos and get their advice as how to proceed.

Having dealt with many of these situations in the past, this process should get some positive results.

 

[JoeWras]

The space between lots 39 and 43 that Al uses for access is a public right of way according to the plat of subdivision that Al posted. The public has rights to use the 20' strip - it is essentially a public street. Most public streets can also be used by utility companies to install and maintain underground and overhead lines to service the lots. Title to the right of way lies in the municipality, town, city, county, or whatever government agency that accepted the platted right of way and maintains it.

It's a gray area in a lot of places.

Around here, we all put stuff on that right of way, namely, our mailboxes. However, the authorities have the right to take them out if necessary, and they have from time to time.

Oddly, I've seen people plant trees there too. If you do, the city takes it over and the city arborist will actually come by and start caring for them! (We are the "City of Trees".) But put anything else there and it is fair game by the city or utility companies.

 

[Music Lover]

Pretty clearcut the rocks are on the driveway. The fence here is supposedly on the border:

He had rocks delivered. I thought he was going to put them around his foundation, then we went out and they had been arranged. IOW, all at once.

Whose shrubs are those? It looks like they're encroaching almost as much as the rocks.

 

[ERD50]

Whose shrubs are those? It looks like they're encroaching almost as much as the rocks.

A little hard to tell from these photos, but it looks like it to me.

We are hearing one side of the story, I wonder if that guy feels those shrubs are pushing cars closer to him. Maybe he is the one who feels violated, and this is his reaction?

T-Al and neighbor better check that out, and be prepared to deal with the bushes. Might be best to be proactive and get that handled before getting authorities involved.

I'm also curious why T-Al and neighbor are getting a lawyer involved - seems the first thing is to get whatever municipality that governs this to identify it as problem or not, and let them take the first action.

-ERD50

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

...the first thing is to get whatever municipality that governs this to identify it as problem or not, and let them take the first action.

It's definitely a safety violation. There's no way a pumper truck with tower ladder could make that turn unless it had at least 40' on the main road AND swung into oncoming traffic before a right turn. If they say it's fine, go talk directly to the local fire station, in some jurisdictions they can initiate an inspection and issue citations. (Or they might, at your invitation, come to "inspect your smoke detectors", and while on their way there, use their heavy equipment to remove the debris from the right-of-way. We would have done this back when I volunteered, but it depends on the crew.)

For comparison, SF (the first fire code I found) requires a minimum of 20' on current streets and 26' when they expect to need a tower ladder:

Minimum Street Widths and Access Roads

1. The San Francisco Fire Code (503.2.1) requires a minimum of 20 feet of unobstructed roadway and a vertical clearance of not less than 13' 6' for existing roadways. While a 20 foot wide roadway is permissible, past practice has shown that making ninety degree turns are not possible without the trucks moving into oncoming traffic. The vehicles can make the turn only on one way streets.
2. The San Francisco Fire Code (503.2.5) requires a turnaround for all dead-end fire access roads in excess of 150’. The San Francisco Fire Department has determined an 80 foot turnaround and a 40' radius to be sufficient.
3. The San Francisco Fire Code requires a minimum 26’ wide street for new developments where the new buildings are greater than 30’ in height from the lowest level of fire department vehicle access and are unsprinklered. These streets shall be located a minimum of 15’ and a maximum of 30’ from the buildings and shall be parallel to one entire side of the buildings.

 

[kcowan]

I would appreciate a clarification. Is this road allowance the same as where he installed the 10 foot high fence adjoining your property?

 

[CRLLS]

FWIW, I tried to draw the lot lines as best I could based on the road's perspective lines and T-Al's tape measure. If this is anywhere close to being accurate, clearly both the rock jetty and the evergreens are in violation.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

I would appreciate a clarification. Is this road allowance the same as where he installed the 10 foot high fence adjoining your property?

No, it is not. Al said, he is 42 and rock wall/fence neighbor is 43. The driveway is the rectangle, and if it's the same neighbor, the fence must be where the oval is. (It has to be a shared property line, which the driveway does not have, as Al had his sheds right near the fence line.) It could be with another neighbor, I can't remember, but that would put it either to the right of the oval (44), or above the driveway (40).

 

[kcowan]

Thanks. If it is as you describe, then he needs to go after 43 with guns blazing!

 

[Ronstar]

It's a gray area in a lot of places.

Around here, we all put stuff on that right of way, namely, our mailboxes. However, the authorities have the right to take them out if necessary, and they have from time to time.

Oddly, I've seen people plant trees there too. If you do, the city takes it over and the city arborist will actually come by and start caring for them! (We are the "City of Trees".) But put anything else there and it is fair game by the city or utility companies.

FYI - "your" mailbox becomes federal property once it is installed and made ready for use.

 

[Ronstar]

FWIW, I tried to draw the lot lines as best I could based on the road's perspective lines and T-Al's tape measure. If this is anywhere close to being accurate, clearly both the rock jetty and the evergreens are in violation.

True, but keep in mind that pavement in older subdivisions is rarely perfectly centered in the right of way.

 

[pb4uski]

FWIW, I tried to draw the lot lines as best I could based on the road's perspective lines and T-Al's tape measure. If this is anywhere close to being accurate, clearly both the rock jetty and the evergreens are in violation.

That's what it looked like to me too... assuming that the center of the road was the center of the right of way.

Shouldn't the left and right lines parrallel to the inner lines?

 

[target2019]

Over the years, cars avoiding the growing shrub have moved the center of road. There are at least two problem neighbors. People are strange.

 

[ERD50]

That's what it looked like to me too... assuming that the center of the road was the center of the right of way.

Shouldn't the left and right lines parrallel to the inner lines?

I think he got the perspective about right, those lines will converge, appearing non-parallel in a photo like this.

Over the years, cars avoiding the growing shrub have moved the center of road. There are at least two problem neighbors. People are strange.

It does look a bit like the car path has drifted away from those shrubs, which would be a natural and maybe unconscious thing for a driver to do.

I wonder if Mr Jetty is posting on another forum somewhere, about his neighbor in back with the rusty woodsheds, and his neighbor to the side with his overgrown shrubs forcing people to drive up on his property?

There's always two sides to a story, and a road.

-ERD50

 

[CRLLS]

My guess is that the center of the road is pretty close to the center of the ROW. Maybe it drifted left a foot or so. It is possibly confirmed by the different lengths of the 2 outer lines closest to the camera from the tire tracks to the outer edge of the ROW as defined by the tape measure. I first created the vanishing point based on the right side pavement and the tire paths on the roadway. It is a little offset to the left because that is where the camera was positioned. Then I went to the end of the tape measure, as shown by T-Al and drew the left hand ROW line. The right hand pretty much aligned with the paved driveway and the tip of the tape.

It is by no means a valid surveying method. Still, it should be close.