HVAC Upgrade- Heat Pump?

[zinger1457]

I've been in my current house for 22 years, looks like it's time to upgrade my current heating(gas furnace) and cooling(evaporative) system. I've had an evaporative cooler since the house was built and although there are some positives to it I'm looking to upgrade to an AC system. I've been getting quotes from the local HVAC companies, one company highly recommended and gave me a quote for a heat pump system. The other two companies didn't even seem to want to discuss a heat pump when I brought it up and just pushed and quoted a standard AC/furnace system.

I live in a fairly mild climate (SE Arizona) and although it does get cool (typically upper 30's) at night during the winter the temp rarely drops below freezing. Seems like a heat pump would work well here from what I've read. The tech who quoted me the heat pump system has one in his house and really likes it. Anyone use a heat pump system? Would appreciate any comments and any positive/negative experiences.

 

[REWahoo]

We've had a heat pump system for many years here in south central Texas, where the climate is very similar to yours. We've been very happy with our system. The only negative is the system sees a lot of wear since the same components are in use year-round. For us that has meant having to replace every 12-15 years.

 

[pb4uski]

This interests me as well in that our HVAC system at our winter condo in Florida is old in the tooth. From the sites below it sounds like AC and heat pump systems are kissing cousins. In FL we have AC because in order to generate heat the system pumps air over a heating coil (similiar to a toaster element) as I understand it.

https://www.carrier.com/residential/en/us/products/heat-pumps/heat-pumps-vs-air-conditioners/
https://www.servicechampions.net/blog/heat-pump-vs-air-conditioner/#:~:text=

 

[zinger1457]

This interests me as well in that our HVAC system at our winter condo in Florida is old in the tooth. From the sites below it sounds like AC and heat pump systems are kissing cousins. In FL we have AC because in order to generate heat the system pumps air over a heating coil (similiar to a toaster element) as I understand it.

Yes, the way it was explained to me is that the AC in a heat pump is the same as a typical AC unit, the difference is in the way it provides heating.

 

[Amethyst]

We had heat pumps in MD and hated them, because we really needed heat in winter. Heat pumps, despite their name, suck at heating (even after we installed a brand-new, higher-end system).

They make great A/C, though. Our A/C monthly bill in hot, humid MD summer was approximately a tenth of the monthly bill in wintertime.

 

[pjigar]

I have no experience yet but we are going ductless AC+heatpump units in our next house. Based on my understanding: The heat pump works fine as long as temperatures don't go too low and even then they have models that will work below freezing.

 

[travelover]

............ In FL we have AC because in order to generate heat the system pumps air over a heating coil (similar to a toaster element) as I understand it.

Heat pumps are just a compressor and two heat exchangers - one inside and one outside. The "plumbing" is set up so it can move heat either way. Because they don't provide much heat when temperatures get below freezing, some also have a set of electric heating elements like a toaster. These really suck electricity, whereas the heat pump mode is quite efficient. So, bottom line, heat pumps are best for mild climates.

 

[whitet]

We had heat pumps in MD and hated them, because we really needed heat in winter. Heat pumps, despite their name, suck at heating (even after we installed a brand-new, higher-end system).

This matches our experience in southern North Carolina. The heat delivered by a heat pump is typically just barely warmer than the current temperature in your home. When you place your hand in front of the register it usually feels like cool air coming out. This is exceptionally annoying when you happen to be sitting in front of the duct. Don't get me wrong, it does warm the room, but when I call for heat I want to feel warmth coming out of my system.

Also, I agree with the poster who pointed out the year-round wear and tear. We got nine years out of our last heat pump system. If gas were available to me I would ditch the heat pump.

 

[ransil]

My heat pump will work to about 22 degrees, I have 2 15k heat elements also, I only have electric heat so it's either forced or baseboard.

 

[nobody]

I've had them for years in the Midwest and liked them. I also had gas furnace as backup when below 30. One item to note is the heat they put out is not hot like a furnace.

 

[RetireBy90]

I've had them for years in the Midwest and liked them. I also had gas furnace as backup when below 30. One item to note is the heat they put out is not hot like a furnace.

This is the reason I don’t use a heat pump for heating. The air is heated slightly above air temp so it feels cold to your body. We have gas heat and heat pump for AC.

 

[Bamaman]

I have a pair of heat pumps at home and one at my lake house. Heat pumps suck the heat out of the air and put it into an A coil inside the house with refrigerant. It's like a/c Freon in reverse. If you hold onto the copper tubing, you'll find the refrigerant will be about 150 degrees--hot to the touch.

Heat pumps are often found in Middle America--south of St. Louis/Indianapolis/Mid Ohio. Any farther north and natural gas is preferred. They're also popular for those out in the country that don't have access to natural gas--and LP is too expensive to use.

It's very efficient until maybe 35 degrees. Then an electric coil will kick in, and they use as much as 3500 watts--expensive.

Mini Split heat pumps are the future of HVAC worldwide. They're best used if the house is not too large. They're mostly cheap to purchase and easy to install. That's what I'm going to use when my lake house system crashes. My house has two new heat pumps after the original units only lasted 10 years. But they were far less expensive than a totally new HVAC furnace/central air conditioning system.

For Southern Arizona, the heat pump would be your best option. Same for Texas.

 

[ncbill]

Here it's a heat pump with gas furnace as backup, though it rarely gets below 20ºF in the winter.

Natural gas is so cheap now I locked out the heat pump and just use the (80% efficient) gas furnace in the winter.

 

[travelover]

Here it's a heat pump with gas furnace as backup, though it rarely gets below 20ºF in the winter.

Natural gas is so cheap now I locked out the heat pump and just use the (80% efficient) gas furnace in the winter.

I wondered about that. It seems silly to have a heat pump with a gas furnace given how much heat a gas furnace puts out per $ of fuel used.

 

[Telly]

I view heat pumps only as a necessary solution for those who do not have gas available!

Heat pumps... changeover valves, strip heaters, defrost mode, more controls to go wrong, lot of run time, weak warm air. Want to boost the temperature? oops, just kicked on the strip heaters, $$$.

For milder climates, not installing gas distribution and using heat pumps instead is cheaper for developers. Around here (DFW), heat pumps fell out of favor, viewed as low-budget construction. People want gas heat. Developers have responded years ago to that. But those in an old development that doesn't have gas don't have a choice.
A person I know is about 10 houses away from a suitable gas main, he checked it out with the gas company a few years ago. They told him to extend the gas main to his house, he would have to get all of the houses between onboard to share the gas main and service drops cost with him. No go with any of his neighbors, he tried. No one was willing to pony up some $$ up front to lower their cost long term, including the cost of dumping their existing heat pump and having a new HVAC system installation. Wasn't going to happen.

 

[Ian S]

We had gas heat in Phoenix but at our new home in Sedona, the home doesn't have access to gas so it's all electric. Our new home is better in every way than the old EXCEPT for not having gas. If you have access to natural gas where you live then IMHO don't switch to a heat pump. I also prefer our old gas water heater and gas dryer.

 

[beowulf]

Swamp coolers are very common in older homes in AZ. They are no where as effective as a regular A/C unit or the A/C part of a heat pump. The first new house we lived in had a heat pump. It was great until the first winter. When it got into the 30s or below, I called the builder and told him that the air coming out of the vents was cool, not warm. I was told that's the way it's supposed to be. It comes out a degree or two over the ambient temperature, so don't use a time control system or it will switch to electric coil heat and the electric meter wheels will spin real fast. They also didn't bother to mention that not only do the electric heat coils go on when it gets near freezing, but that the outside unit keeps trying to work and you get an ice build up on the top of the fan. I actually had to go outside in freezing temps with a hair dryer and extension cord to defrost the outside unit. We were way too far north for a heat pump, but there was a moratorium on new gas connections when the house was built. Next place had traditional A/C and oil heat - actual warm air came out the vents. Don't know if anyone ever heard of this, but when I was stationed in Newport News, we rented a place that had a gas air conditioner - brand name was Arkla Servel. When it was really windy in the summer, I had to go outside and light the pilot light in the unit when it got blown out. Anyway, heat pumps are great as long as you don't have prolonged periods below 40 degrees.

 

[boatfishandnature]

As several have already said, heat pumps work best in mild climates. They work especially well In conjunction with underfloor heating, as the gentle heat that they generate is ideal for the moderate temperatures required by the underfloor system. We have had it in our new home in Portugal for a year now. I was a little skeptical at first, but after two winters, both the effectiveness and the running costs have been great. I cannot comment on the L.T. reliability, though.

 

[f35phixer]

We live in a townhouse community in Md, was at a neighbor house who had exact layout as ours. I'm in kitchen under a vent, HOT air coming out, i said Bob why was aux heat on?
He said no, just put in new HVAC and now they are using R-410A......... You will love it !!!

 

[Joylush]

I have some experience being as I own 30 homes and have for years. I have replaced many, many air conditioners and they get a lot of use in Florida. I started replacing my straight cool (non heat pump) units with heat pumps because I’m all about efficiency.

I have come full circle and now am back to straight cool only. I have more problems, far more problems with the heat pump systems. They simply break down more often and don’t last as long.

Currently I have two older straight cool systems (each about 20 years old now), I never have problems with them. Never.

They don’t make things like they used to anymore for one. Even my new were straight cool units need more maintenance and repairs then my two older ones. But the heat pumps are the worst. Sure they might save a little on your electric bill the very few times a year when you need them for heat. But it’s not worth the maintenance headache.

 

[zinger1457]

Thanks for all the input! Didn't realize that heat pumps were considered 'low budget'. Based on the quotes I received the heat pump system was on the high side.

 

[REWahoo]

Didn't realize that heat pumps were considered 'low budget'.

I suppose that depends on your budget, but definitely not in my case!

 

[ERD50]

Thanks for all the input! Didn't realize that heat pumps were considered 'low budget'. Based on the quotes I received the heat pump system was on the high side.

Maybe what is meant is, if you already are installing A/C, adding heat-pump capability is probably a fairly small marginal upgrade. Probably cheaper than an additional gas furnace?

For apartments/condos/assisted living places, heat pumps have advantages. No gas leaks to worry about, chimneys, igniters, draft inducers, heat exchangers, and other maintenance issues. Just the filter.

-ERD50

 

[GTFan]

I view heat pumps only as a necessary solution for those who do not have gas available!

Heat pumps... changeover valves, strip heaters, defrost mode, more controls to go wrong, lot of run time, weak warm air. Want to boost the temperature? oops, just kicked on the strip heaters, $$$.

For milder climates, not installing gas distribution and using heat pumps instead is cheaper for developers. Around here (DFW), heat pumps fell out of favor, viewed as low-budget construction. People want gas heat. Developers have responded years ago to that. But those in an old development that doesn't have gas don't have a choice.
A person I know is about 10 houses away from a suitable gas main, he checked it out with the gas company a few years ago. They told him to extend the gas main to his house, he would have to get all of the houses between onboard to share the gas main and service drops cost with him. No go with any of his neighbors, he tried. No one was willing to pony up some $$ up front to lower their cost long term, including the cost of dumping their existing heat pump and having a new HVAC system installation. Wasn't going to happen.

This is all true - I live in a '70s development that is electric-only, even though the adjacent sub has gas and electric. We checked into cost to run gas a long time ago and realized we'd never get enough neighbors to pony up, so heat pumps it is.

Fortunately I have a Goodman unit that is still running after 25 years, amazingly enough (with a few minor repairs over that time, we put it in when we bought the house). I dread getting a new model even though I know they're much more efficient down to 25 or so degrees, simply because you're lucky if you get 10 years out of them now.

I guess given my experience I'll go with Goodman again, but dunno which are the most reliable now.

EDIT: found a CR report online from a few years ago, looks like Bryant or American Standard here (I know a good Bryant HVAC company nearby).

https://www.overlakeheating.com/wp-...itioner-Reliability-Consumer-Reports-2016.png

 

[zinger1457]

The heat pump system I received a quote on was a Daiken unit, it comes with a 12 year parts warranty, sounds like that's about how long they last.