I feel guilty and dirty for buying from Amazon

R

retire-early

Full time employment: Posting here.
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Jul 19, 2020
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Agreed, I've bought some things direct from company websites lately and it's not so bad. Sometimes I'll do research on Amazon, comparing items and reading reviews, then buy elsewhere. Returning items can be more of a hassle though. Amazon sure makes that easy.

Prime memberships add an inhuman pressure to the workers. Do we really need our stuff that fast??
 
Not defending Amazon but customers have overwhelmingly rewarded Amazon for decades, that horse left the barn LONG ago and there’s no turning back. Boycott them if you choose. The (vast) majority of us say one thing and do another. Most people object when we’re directly affected by something negative, but we don’t care (or don’t know, same thing) when someone else is affected - ‘all I really care about is what’s in it for me.’ And the irony is Amazon is doing better than ever as a result of Covid...
 
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It’s unfortunate how Amazon is treating its workers, however, there are options. Personally, I’d advocate for a union. Yes, that may raise Amazon’s cost, but as a customer, that brings it back to me. I’d rather pay more for them to treat their employees well than to stop using them - to a point. That point is something the future union and management will have to balance. Also, as you think about moving your business elsewhere, do you really think other alternative companies treat their employees any better?
 
I have also been making a concerted effort to buy at brick and mortar or direct with companies online. Only buy from Amazon when I have no choice, but they are usually small, obscure and inexpensive items. Hopefully, other companies will catch up and Amazon will not dominate the market. It may be handy, but not good for our country.
 
That is some weird spin on the first article about 4x10s shifts. My whole career people would beg to get on 4x10s.

The tip issue does sound bad.

I've looked for ways to get away from Amazon as well. For example, I bought my newest laptop from Best Buy. Though recently I had a really bad RMA experience with NewEgg, who I've used for years for PC builds. Amazon is excellent for returns and replacements. Unfortunately, I'll probably lean toward Amazon and away from NewEgg for my next build.
 
At the risk of being political (never mind the fact a MOD has mentioned unions, which I thought was verboten) I would point out that these articles are from Vice, a media company that is far from non-political in their writings. Not saying that it's not true...but take it with a grain of salt. Case in point...right off the bat, the first article says, "Amazon is FORCING.." well, no they aren't. Any and all employees are free to leave at any time. The second article was better since it was a highlight of the FTC action.

Also, is this the best forum for a call to action about a business? Would a post about Nike or P&G be acceptable?
 
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Just a reminder that while you are shopping on amazon, you are not always buying from amazon.

Amazon provides a platform for thousands of small businesses to thrive, where otherwise it would not be possible, or far less successful.

Amazon also provides this platform to handmade sellers, similar to Etsy.

So, a lot of small businesses make their livings on Amazon, it's not all big mega stuff.
 
USGrant1962 said:
That is some weird spin on the first article about 4x10s shifts. My whole career people would beg to get on 4x10s.

The tip issue does sound bad.

I've looked for ways to get away from Amazon as well. For example, I bought my newest laptop from Best Buy. Though recently I had a really bad RMA experience with NewEgg, who I've used for years for PC builds. Amazon is excellent for returns and replacements. Unfortunately, I'll probably lean toward Amazon and away from NewEgg for my next build.
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loved when i was doing 4x10's. Then went to every other Friday off, it also was nice!!!
 
I used to feel this way about Walmart. Our rural county was greatly changed when super Walmart opened. The Mom and Pop shops could not compete.

Less then 1% of my spend ever went to Walmart. Then Covid hit and the meat packing plant in the county drove up the public Covid numbers. Now I see that of all the options anywhere Walmart actually cares about giving me good service. No upcharge on items, no curbside fee for over a 35 dollar order. On time and lots of slots, no quibbling if I get a bad item and a generous and free to me substitution policy.

Is Walmart perfect, far from it, but they have helped keep us Covid safe and that's worth a lot. Amazon is much the same as far as we are concerned.
 
f35phixer said:
loved when i was doing 4x10's. Then went to every other Friday off, it also was nice!!!
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I thought the outrage over the hours was a bit over the top. Granted, I signed up for military service, but there were more 24+ hour shifts that I worked/flew than I could count if I tried.

Also, one of the first j*bs I had was working in a grocery chain distribution center, and those were 10+ hour shifts...you weren't done until all orders were filled and that meant a LOT of 12 hour shifts.
 
There has to be a lot more to this story than just this. I would imagine that IF Amazon truly did give the workers 1 week lead for the shift change, and then no one signs up, they would have to reconsider their mandate. I also think labor laws do not allow mandate work days beyond 8 hours unless negotiated through a labor organization or representative. Are these workers represented by a union?
Sorry, but this doesn't pass the smell test.

BTW, I worked for a company that OFFERED 4x10 and 9 hour days with every other Friday off. They would shift half the 4x10 with Friday off, the other half with Monday off for staffing reasons. They also allowed a flex start time from 6am to 8am. This gave them straight time hours from 6am to 6pm based on the flexability of start hour and work week. If your job required crew conditions, then the crew had to all agree or the standard 8 hour shift would default. But it was also always allowed to work the 8 hour shifts without any repercussions. The crux was that it was offered as an alternative shift, not mandated. This was California and what ever unique labor laws the state has.
 
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These things can be challenging to one’s moral code. In my early days of investing, for example, I experimented with a Dogs of the Dow approach. One year, one of the stocks to buy was Philip Morris. Yikes. I bought it but then didn’t sleep very well, and felt good when I sold it.

These days, like many here, I invest in market index mutual funds, meaning I hold some of potentially every company, some of whose missions and products I find objectionable, including tobacco, probably. I guess I’ve compromised.

In my defense, it’s nearly impossible to buy only companies one can agree with, like social value mutual funds attempt to. Those funds might not invest in coal mining companies that conducted mountain top removal practices. That’s an easy decision for me but what about the railroads that transport it and the utilities that burn it? And doesn’t the whole grid of users, including me, use the electricity?

Pardon my ramble but it’s just not clear where one draws the line, so I guess we have to decide for ourselves through experience what lets us sleep at night.
 
skipro33 said:
I also think labor laws do not allow mandate work days beyond 8 hours unless negotiated through a labor organization or representative. Are these workers represented by a union?
Sorry, but this doesn't pass the smell test.
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There are federal protections (mandates overtime for non-exempt employees) but no blanket prohibition on what AMZN is doing. Of course, state laws vary WILDLY so there's that.

The FLSA puts no limit on the number of hours an adult, non-exempt worker may be required to work in a given week, it does specify a standard for overtime pay. After 40 hours of work in a work week, a non-exempt worker is entitled to overtime pay, which in most circumstances is 1 1/2 times the worker's base pay. This has to do solely with the number of hours worked in a seven day period and is unrelated to the number of consecutive days worked.
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USGrant1962 said:
That is some weird spin on the first article about 4x10s shifts. My whole career people would beg to get on 4x10s.
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Interesting the place I retired from did 12 hour shifts, 3 days on/3 days off, days to nights and vv every 12 days. We offered them various 8 hour shifts, they were adamantly against anything but their 12 hour rotation - for the 18+ years I was there, and they’re still on 12s. It was tougher on older employees but none of them wanted to give up 3 days off.
 
Also - consider routing your orders through Amazon’s “smile” program. That way you can have a % of your purchase donated to a charity of your choice. Seeing the donations add up (at no extra cost to you) might help salve the guilt.
 
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Aerides said:
Just a reminder that while you are shopping on amazon, you are not always buying from amazon.

Amazon provides a platform for thousands of small businesses to thrive, where otherwise it would not be possible, or far less successful.

Amazon also provides this platform to handmade sellers, similar to Etsy.

So, a lot of small businesses make their livings on Amazon, it's not all big mega stuff.
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Amazon will also remove you (seller) from their platform if they disagree with you on some social cause, etc...
 
Those hours are very odd, 120am to 1150 am, not conducive to family life. Why not something like 10pm to 830 am?
As an at will employer, non unionized, I guess they have some reason for those hours.
If I really needed the job, my choice would be to make it work or find another job. Not fun.
But, as I told many coworkers, even in a union job, your employer has the right to set wages, hours and working conditions, as long as they comply with the law. Their choice was to accept the job or not.

I have bought more from Amazon this past year than ever before, but am starting to buy direct from manufacturer if I can.
 
pacergal said:
Those hours are very odd, 120am to 1150 am, not conducive to family life. Why not something like 10pm to 830 am?
As an at will employer, non unionized, I guess they have some reason for those hours. ...
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You can bet on that. AMZN doesn't do stuff without a significant amount of thought about it. They aren't stupid and haven't grown so large through sheer luck.
 
What an awful premise the OP gave us for a thread. I buy from stores and sites that give me a good mix of convenience, cost and service. That's often Amazon. Like any company, they are likely to eventually become a victim of their own success and there will be a new competitor some day that will take their place. Can't we leave the politics and words like "evil" to lesser sites?
 
I don't think it's up to me to vote with my feet on things as large and complicated as this. The point was made pretty convincingly in the book "Doing Good Better" with examples that include Nike and sustainably grown coffee. The upshot was that if you really studied all of the effects to all the people involved, it was better to buy the cheap coffee and donate a bit to Cool Earth or some other highly effective organization that really gets results.

So I'll continue to enjoy the Amazon experience, but maybe I'll put some thinking towards the plight of the workers.
 
I feel worse that I can't buy products that I look at and ask myself why that can't be made closer to home. Both for the sake of the environment and of my children and their friends.
 
retire-early said:
To my mind they really are the Evil Empire

https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3gk3w/amazon-is-forcing-its-warehouse-workers-into-brutal-megacycle-shifts

https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7mq5m/amazon-will-pay-gig-workers-dollar617-million-for-stealing-tips

:mad:

I am not going to shop on their website unless I cannot buy the item anywhere else.
I will use their website for my purposes and discard it like trash when I don't need it.

.
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What's your threshold for paying more? Do you have one? Otherwise this is just talk.
 
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