I have a gut dislike for authority figures.

[Kroeran]

Low level manager myself. I like it when the team questions why are we doing something the way we do. Or even why we are doing something. This has lead to discussions on how we can make the job easier, and even eliminated some unnecessary tasks.

And I did have one member on the team that I inherited that ended up being laid off. Reason: this person was not a cooperative person with any sort of authority, and others on the team avoided interacting with them if they could. So when it came time for layoffs this person was at the top of the list.

This thread is giving me bad flashbacks.

Key part of the game is assessing how management punishes people that make them or the team uncomfortable and making sure you don’t get on their punishment or surgery list.

Your boss treating you badly, can be their way of nudging you to move on.

And in most environments, management’s comfort is more important than the bottom line or the client, if their is indeed a bottom line.

I was very feral when entering the super mega ego bureaucracy complex, and it took an early career layoff to learn that lesson.

Smart idealists from blue collar backgrounds, or from households or schools that hard wire you for chafing at authority, have to come to terms with “the man,” or get stuck at the technical levels.

The boss is always the client or customer. The boss is always right. If the boss needs great metrics, or to be flattered in meetings, it’s up to the boss to indicate to you what they want and for you to give it to them.

I recall watching a film set in old money British private schools which organized the kids in heirarchies of authority, and thinking, what great preparation for the real world.

Close to the end of my career I had a chance to talk to new recruits. My key message was, whatever crazy idea comes into your boss’s head, just do it, otherwise you are going to have a painful life.

The higher game is to communicate pushback, very very carefully, in private, choosing wording that is stripped of emotion, ensuring the boss knows you will accept their final judgement.

Once a boss gave me a task that was batshit crazy. I was very upset and considered disobedience. Then in a promotion interview a question came up that I was excessively prepared for, because of that task. It was not a coincidence.

I once engineered the transfer of a subordinate who was competent and loyal, and obviously hurt by my actions. The thing is, my boss had labelled them as unpromotable, and my intent was to fix their careers, but could not explain it to them.

 

[atmsmshr]

This:

"The higher game is to communicate pushback, very very carefully, in private, choosing wording that is stripped of emotion, ensuring the boss knows you will accept their final judgement."

and this:

"Choosing which hill to die upon."

while recognizing that every human being are subject to the Peter Principle,


Are keys to success in a bureaucracy.

 

[JoeWras]

You can get it from both sides too. Near the end of my career, I had the boss, and The Rock Star.

You didn't have The Rock Star? If not, consider yourself lucky.

The Rock Star is "the future," so whatever The Rock Star says, the boss will pander to.

Oh, that was fun. You got The Man on one side, and The Idealist on the other, who cannot be questioned, because they are The Future, which will be run by Rock Stars.

 

[ncbill]

Didn't he have to get a degree first? And then there is that pesky requirement to serve XX years in the military after getting his wings...

Yep...got their 4-year degree at a service academy...saved me six figures.

Those XX years also pay better (plus rack up more flight hours) than being a flight instructor which is what most civilian pilots have to do for roughly the same amount of time before they've got enough flight hours to be considered even by a regional carrier.

And back on topic the last corporate (Fortune 500) boss I had was a great guy but over the years he gradually became a heavy social drinker...up until he made a poor decision in his personal life & got caught.

Then his drinking tipped over to something much more serious...I couldn't deal with his increasingly erratic behavior so I quit...he had only a couple of years to go before his pension so nobody higher-up was going to do anything about him beyond burying their heads in the sand.

 

[prudent_one]

Lucky to have had almost all agreeable and supportive managers in my career. There was one guy a level above me who was a tool. I don't know why people didn't recognize him as a fast-talking, schmoozing conman who specialized in buzzwords. He was young, rose quickly, and in his 10 years there had 4 different jobs moving up each time. I noticed a pattern of things going badly in the groups he previously headed in the year or two after he had moved up again.

He was a person who read Harvard Business Review and would latch onto some article then propose the same idea like it was his own. All other management were "grew up in the business" types who wouldn't know an HBR if it smacked them in the face (not a condemnation) so Bright Boy looked like a genius with his "forward-thinking" ideas.

Some worked OK, some didn't, but in any event he was street-smart enough to figure out how to make things look like nothing was ever his fault. When he couldn't cover any more, he'd move to another position and let his successor look bad. That's when I observed it's possible to fake your way through ANY job for a couple years.

He and I tangled a couple times when he came to my office and tried to tell me how to do something better, but they were always cases where prior experience showed me it wouldn't work and his lack of experience in that area was what made him think it would. Any interaction always had an undertone of exasperation like "Oh, if I only could figure out how to dumb this down for clueless peons." When I nudged him to let his staff know he decided to have me change how I do something (so it wouldn't come back on me), he wouldn't do it. So I just ignored him and waited for blowback. None.

Then the day came where he couldn't cover up his problems any longer and wasn't able to move up another level, so he left to join a megacorp as head of a big division. Two years later he left to run a small 25-person company. I would bet a month of paychecks that megacorp sniffed him out pretty fast. I'm sure he's now enjoying his place on the throne where no one can question him and he can simply fire anyone when he needs a scapegoat.

It's now three years later and it's generally accepted that he was essentially a huckster.

 

[target2019]

This was definitely a hindrance to my career. I had the skills, but most of my bosses did not consider me a "team player." In retrospect, I'm relieved that I didn't have to participate in the dirty deeds of HR as my field of employment diminished.

Is anyone else here with me? Agin' me?

I'm with you Mr. Graybeard.

It was a long road indeed between job #1 (1975) and job whatever at the beginning of this year. Job #1 drove me crazy for 4 or 5 years. I learned as much as I could but the repetiveness of military documents and inflexible leadership drove me to consulting in private industry for the next 20. I fell back into defense jobs for the last 20 years. By then I had enough skill that most authority figures just let me be, and I worked with clients without much help from above.

The best path for someone with advanced skill is to accept the risk of sailing alone and get off the ship.

 

[Keim]

Lucky to have had almost all agreeable and supportive managers in my career. There was one guy a level above me who was a tool. I don't know why people didn't recognize him as a fast-talking, schmoozing conman who specialized in buzzwords. He was young, rose quickly, and in his 10 years there had 4 different jobs moving up each time. I noticed a pattern of things going badly in the groups he previously headed in the year or two after he had moved up again.

He was a person who read Harvard Business Review and would latch onto some article then propose the same idea like it was his own. All other management were "grew up in the business" types who wouldn't know an HBR if it smacked them in the face (not a condemnation) so Bright Boy looked like a genius with his "forward-thinking" ideas.

Some worked OK, some didn't, but in any event he was street-smart enough to figure out how to make things look like nothing was ever his fault. When he couldn't cover any more, he'd move to another position and let his successor look bad. That's when I observed it's possible to fake your way through ANY job for a couple years.

He and I tangled a couple times when he came to my office and tried to tell me how to do something better, but they were always cases where prior experience showed me it wouldn't work and his lack of experience in that area was what made him think it would. Any interaction always had an undertone of exasperation like "Oh, if I only could figure out how to dumb this down for clueless peons." When I nudged him to let his staff know he decided to have me change how I do something (so it wouldn't come back on me), he wouldn't do it. So I just ignored him and waited for blowback. None.

Then the day came where he couldn't cover up his problems any longer and wasn't able to move up another level, so he left to join a megacorp as head of a big division. Two years later he left to run a small 25-person company. I would bet a month of paychecks that megacorp sniffed him out pretty fast. I'm sure he's now enjoying his place on the throne where no one can question him and he can simply fire anyone when he needs a scapegoat.

It's now three years later and it's generally accepted that he was essentially a huckster.

This comment surprised me. For a moment I thought it was well camouflaged commentary about a certain politician. Then I saw mention of Harvard Business Review and reading.
Thanks for the chance to laugh at my own misperceptions.

 

[Keim]

This thread is giving me bad flashbacks.

Key part of the game is assessing how management punishes people that make them or the team uncomfortable and making sure you don’t get on their punishment or surgery list.

Your boss treating you badly, can be their way of nudging you to move on.

And in most environments, management’s comfort is more important than the bottom line or the client, if their is indeed a bottom line.

I was very feral when entering the super mega ego bureaucracy complex, and it took an early career layoff to learn that lesson.

Smart idealists from blue collar backgrounds, or from households or schools that hard wire you for chafing at authority, have to come to terms with “the man,” or get stuck at the technical levels.

The boss is always the client or customer. The boss is always right. If the boss needs great metrics, or to be flattered in meetings, it’s up to the boss to indicate to you what they want and for you to give it to them.

I recall watching a film set in old money British private schools which organized the kids in heirarchies of authority, and thinking, what great preparation for the real world.

Close to the end of my career I had a chance to talk to new recruits. My key message was, whatever crazy idea comes into your boss’s head, just do it, otherwise you are going to have a painful life.

The higher game is to communicate pushback, very very carefully, in private, choosing wording that is stripped of emotion, ensuring the boss knows you will accept their final judgement.

Once a boss gave me a task that was batshit crazy. I was very upset and considered disobedience. Then in a promotion interview a question came up that I was excessively prepared for, because of that task. It was not a coincidence.

I once engineered the transfer of a subordinate who was competent and loyal, and obviously hurt by my actions. The thing is, my boss had labelled them as unpromotable, and my intent was to fix their careers, but could not explain it to them.

Excellent advice for surviving and thriving in a bureaucracy. Some good overall mgmt tips too! Guess I'm an idealist in your book. I was pleased to get out and start the nonprofit I run rather then play the game solely by the man's rules. Now, every once in a while and only after carefully thinking it thru, I can tell the man to stick it. I like having that ability.

 

[Lienlord]

When I was starting out I had a great boss that told me how his job success depended on his staff doing their jobs. He encapsulated my #1 job into a simple quote I've used on every team I've ever managed.

"Keep your boss's boss off your boss's back!"