illegal immigration - What should be done?.........

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaHa IMO, to have a legitimate opinion on immigration from Latin America you need to have spent some time working there. If so, and you would like the US to be like Latin America (poverty and corruption on a scale unimaginable to most to most gringos), then at least you know what you are asking for. Otherwise, legal, illegal, wading the river, coming in on a 747, it doesn't matter near so much as that we are permanently altering the most successful and just large nation the world has ever seen. I guess it might become even better, but IMO don't hold your breath Ha

My take on Latin America is that there are a few rich and many, many poor with almost no middle class. The U.S. is headed in that direction, with or without legal/illegal immigration. Competition with the World and its 5 Billion poor, with the labor up for grabs whether physically here, over a phone line or a Manufacturing plant relocated.

The only difference would be skin color, and that does not make much of a difference.

[samclem]

Our present education systems do a poor job of educating the poor.
Our present health care system does a poor job of treating the poor
Our present unskilled American workers get a very low wage for their work

All of these problems will be made worse by admitting more poor people to the US (legally or illegally).

A properly functioning legal immigration system makes sense--we can choose to admit the number of people with the skills the economy demands, and which our nation we can support.

Are we obligated to admit everyone who wants to live here? No other country in the world operates that way.

I don't think this is a skin color issue--it's a matter of numbers, fairness, and respect for the rule of law.

Quote:

Originally Posted by samclem Our present unskilled American workers get a very low wage for their work

Where will the present day workers be employed that used to work at General Motors? This was the backbone of the American middle class. This has nothing whatsoever to do with immigration.

Who are you going to blame for that?

[haha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cut-Throat My take on Latin America is that there are a few rich and many, many poor with almost no middle class. The U.S. is headed in that direction, with or without legal/illegal immigration. Competition with the World and its 5 Billion poor, with the labor up for grabs whether physically here, over a phone line or a Manufacturing plant relocated. The only difference would be skin color, and that does not make much of a difference.

You are right that skin color is not a factor. However, there is more to culture than skin color.

Also, I would tend to disagree that because America's middle class is thinning out that it would make no difference to import more poor people. That is akin to saying that if a person is cold, we might as well leave him outside in a storm, because hell he was getting cold anyway. My idea is that these trends might be reversed or at least mitigated, but that it will be easier to do if we avoid making them worse.

Also, I disagree that it makes no difference where these poor workers are. Once here, they qualify for American style social services. So not only are they depressing wages, they are also sucking up taxes paid by those who are already here.

I think it also might be *a mistake to assume that Latinos have some kind of gene that makes them like to do heavy work in hot (or cold) and dangerous conditions. Once here, they may find that they prefer welfare and criminality, like our other large group of poor people. Sure the brightest females will get government jobs-Hoo-ray! But that will still leave quite a few to other pursuits. There may even be a limit on the number of taco stands that the US can support.

Ha

[samclem]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cut-Throat Where will the present day workers be employed that used to work at General Motors? This was the backbone of the American middle class. This has nothing whatsoever to do with immigration. Who are you going to blame for that?

I don't see how allowing more immigrants, legal or illegal will help GM workers find/keep work. Right--this has nothing to do with immigration, so why bring it up? Does anybody think that having more immigrants competing for the remaining unskilled jobs in the US will lead to better wages for these jobs? If so, I'd refer that person to a little concept called the "law of supply and demand."

Since you asked--I'd say GM workers are in deep trouble because their company is experiencing a long-term trend of declining sales and therefore cannot afford to employ these workers anymore. GM is noncompetitive for many reasons, including 1) Poorly designed and built products compared to their competitors 2) Having worker compensation that is far above the world rate, in a car market that is globaly competitive.

[samclem]

.

[youbet]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximillion If america is so concerned about Dictators and peopel dying, can we expect marines in the Sudan, Uganda, Zimbabwe, the Ivory Coast etc, anytime soon??

Absolutely not!* There is no proof of WMD in any of those locations.* I do believe we've learned our lesson about intervening where there is no WMD involved.

Quote:

Originally Posted by samclem I don't see how allowing more immigrants, legal or illegal will help GM workers find/keep work. Right--this has nothing to do with immigration, so why bring it up? Does anybody think that having more immigrants competing for the remaining unskilled jobs in the US will lead to better wages for these jobs? If so, I'd refer that person to a little concept called the "law of supply and demand." Since you asked--I'd say GM workers are in deep trouble because their company is experiencing a long-term trend of declining sales and therefore cannot afford to employ these workers anymore. GM is noncompetitive for many reasons, including 1) Poorly designed and built products compared to their competitors 2) Having worker compensation that is far above the world rate, in a car market that is globaly competitive.

I brought it up because a lot of folks are trying to pin this on illegal immigration. The demise of the middle class. It's not just car markets that need to be globaly competitive. All jobs are at risk

[unclemick]

GM is trouble because of several generations of brain dead stupid management.

Take it from an old blue collar Democrat.

heh heh heh heh heh - not that I'm prejudiced or anything.

[youbet]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cut-Throat + All jobs are at risk

How does "doing nothing" regarding unfettered illegal immigration help this situation?

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbet How does "doing nothing" regarding unfettered illegal immigration help this situation?

Next time you have a cold try standing on your head. It probably won't help, but it's at least better than 'doing nothing'.

[poboy]

Quote:

”I’ve introduced a bill that mimics, just totally mirrors Mexico’s immigration policy,” Linder said. “If you were to slip over the [Mexican] border and get caught, you’d be in jail the next day. You’d be a felon. And you’d have to buy your way out of jail to America

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/sha..._cue_from.html

Congressman John Linder, Georgia,* and Maricopa County (Arizona)Sheriff Joe Arpaio seem to be the only two with courage to step up.*

Quote:

Originally Posted by poboy http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/sha..._cue_from.html Congressman John Linder, Georgia, and Maricopa County (Arizona)Sheriff Joe Arpaio seem to be the only two with courage to step up.

That's hardly courage! - That is just the way the politcial wind is blowing. If immigration is the number one anger issue, then introduce a bill that says "throw them in jail". - Doesn't solve anything except to buoy the congressmans popularity.

It works, because you fell for it!

[poboy]

Actually, Arpaio is throwing them in jail for being here illegally.*

[sgeeeee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by poboy Actually, Arpaio is throwing them in jail for being here illegally.*

Don't believe it for a minute. Arpaio is an opportunistic publicity hound. He'll spend weeks making tough statements in front of cameras and 29 cents on actually doing anything. He's constantly running for the next election.

[poboy]

Quote:

Don't believe it for a minute.

Quote:

The Associated Press reported this past week that Maricopa County's sheriff has directed deputies and members of his 3,000-member unpaid reserve posse to patrol the southern reaches of the county and round up illegals. As of Wednesday night, the team had put more than 100 suspected illegals in jail under a state smuggling law that went into effect this past August.

http://prescottdailycourier.com/main...39659&TM=35463

[sgeeeee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by poboy http://prescottdailycourier.com/main...39659&TM=35463

Keep watching past the initial press releases. The southern edge of Maricopa county is over 100 miles from the US-Mexico boarder. Arpaio is grandstanding like he always does. Read the press reports carefully. Over 3000 posse members rounded up 100 suspected illegals. How many were released immediately? How many will get to court? How many will be found guilty? Joe won't get in front of the camera and tell you these statistics. Although Joe's posse is a bunch of volunteer police wantabes, they drive county vehicles, check out county equipment, and waste county court resources with bad arrests and Joe's nonsense.

[Maximillion]

C'mon Boys , mount Up, we gonna catch us some Wet backs, yahoo.

Wait, better stop at Mc Donalds first, we might get hungry.

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Right after that, we're gonna head up north and catch us some icebacks! Yeehawww!

[Maximillion]

CFB, that is no way to talk about Minnesotans , the ones I have met are very friendly people.

These yahoos who are playing Cowboys, what protection do they have if they kill or injure a migrant, can they be sued??

Lorne Greene and Glen Ford were Canadians, but you already knew that.