ISO: Fluorescent Tube style fixture *without* ballast or tubes

[ERD50]

In the "new" (to us) home, I just installed 40" wall cabinets in the laundry room. Not surprised, but two doors hit the ceiling light fixture. No big deal, I'll find something smaller, but also decide that a thin (< 8" wide) 4' long fluorescent tube *style* fixture would work well. A 4' long fixture would do a better job of getting light into some of the cabinets that are shaded by the door blocking the light from the single point fixture. Nothing fancy, but something better looking then the bare industrial "shop light".

But of course I want LED, not the old fluorescent/ballast (I replaced some with modern LED "tubes" in the old house, and they worked well). I'm mostly finding fixtures with integrated LEDs. These could be a good concept, if done right - but I don't think they are (see below*).

What I really want, as the title says, is a bare, decent looking fixture that accepts the 4' style tubes, but without the bulbs or ballast. Because I want to choose which LED tubes I use - brightness, color, dimming capable or not. And I'd prefer LEDs that don't include the circuitry to be ballast compatible, just more to go wrong, and it's always best to bypass the ballast anyhow. I plan on adding some shop lights to the garage and workshop also, so I might buy some LED replacement tubes in quantity for a better price.

I found someone posting on this subject, seems the best they could do is buy shop light fixtures at ~ $20, and remove and rewire for the ballast. Seems like such a waste (and that fixture would be too ugly for the laundry room).

Seems I'm headed towards making my own. The tube receptacles are available cheap, so I'd just cut/bend some cheap metal duct work to form the shell, encase it in some wood trim, paint it white, with some plastic sheet to diffuse/hide the light. And I can probably squeeze two tubes in an 8" wide fixture, hmmm, or since I'm making it myself, I could offset it away from the doors, and make it wider. That would also provide a more even light into the cabinets. I seem to be talking myself into making my own. But I'd still just want plain/bare fixtures for the shop and garage, since there I don't have the space/appearance limits of the laundry room.

So it still seems these should be available, but I'm not finding them (my internet searches are drowned out with the standard replacements). Anyone know of a source?

(*) - A bit of an aside, but this is why I'm not a fan of the "integrated LED" lights that seem to be taking over the big box stores:

On one hand, it could be a good idea. Not being constricted to being a replacement for a traditional bulb means they can physically separate the driver electronics from the LEDs, which can help (if properly designed) improve reliability by keeping the heat away from the heat sensitive components. But I don't think they are standardizing on the LEDs or the drivers, so if one does go bad, you will be buying a whole new fixture. And if you have matching fixtures in a room, I bet when it goes out, it has been discontinued, and you end up replacing the whole thing, which is $$ and PITA. Also, what if you don't like the light color, or the brightness (but also don't want to install a dimmer)? You are stuck (a few do have variable color). So I want a fixture that is at least modular, so I can pick my LEDs to match my needs.

Oh, and to turn this into a full-fledged rant, that 15 year rating on LEDs is complete BS. That is a measurement/prediction of the hours to dim to 70% of initial brightness (based on a short term test). It has nothing at all to do with how long the LED will last before it FAILS. So I bet these integrated LED fixtures end up doing more damage to the environment, because instead of replacing a simple Edison style light bulb (a bit of glass and metal), people will replace an entire fixture and the electronics (or a room-full so they match).

TIA for any suggestions - ERD50

[MissMolly]

Would something like this work?

https://www.shineretrofits.com/shop-...-fixtures.html

[Gumby]

Would something like this work? It is 24 in. long and 16 in. wide and 2 in. thick. LEDs . It is the primary light in my wife's sewing room and is plenty bright. I got it at Lowes, I believe.

[Aerides]

When you say bare, you mean where the tubes would be exposed? Have a look into "grow lights" for indoor gardening if that's the case.

Other than that, have a look round on Lamps Plus they have an extensive catalog.

[ERD50]

Miss Molly - yes, for the shop/garage, but I need something better looking for the laundry room. And that might be a business only site, I couldn't seem to add anything to my cart to check shipping, etc.

Gumby - yes, *something* like that, but I'm not finding them stripped down w/o FL tubes and ballast so I can choose my own LED replacements.

Aerides - No, by "bare" (sorry for the confusion), I meant stripped down - no bulbs or ballast, so I can choose my own LED replacements for color and brightness. For the laundry room, I do need something with a decent appearance.

I'll check out "Lamps Plus".

-ERD50

[Gumby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerides When you say bare, you mean where the tubes would be exposed? Have a look into "grow lights" for indoor gardening if that's the case. Other than that, have a look round on Lamps Plus they have an extensive catalog.

Good idea, Aerides. I was just thinking about that as I watered my seedlings in the kitchen. Mine are only 2 feet long, but they also have 4 foot long ones.

[MissMolly]

OK, how about this one?

https://www.amazon.com/Lithonia-Ligh...495401&sr=8-29

[MissMolly]

Or this one?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07H362J9L...x_B07P14SPQR_0

[RetiredAndLovingIt]

I replaced my bathroom fluorescent strip with this one a couple of months ago. So far so good. No bulbs, integrated LED lighting so maybe not what you're looking for. Very bright and no flickering like the old one at startup. The only weird thing is that there is a one second delay from hitting the lite switch before it comes on and I'm very aware of it. It only cost $40 with a 5 years warranty and easy installation and oh yes it promises 50,000 hours of continuous use*. Easy enough to return to Home Depot if I have problems.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commerci...kBxbuUV2VEfRI0

[Markola]

Related, today I replaced the light in my mother’s GE freezer with one of these numbers. Yes, that is an LED bulb and yes it cost $76.50. It’s ridiculous gadget that only engineers and marketers would love. Why can’t they have just made it a screw in bulb, like God intended?[ATTACH]

[braumeister]

I've always been able to find great LED ceiling fixtures at Home Depot that exactly met my needs.

[RetiredAndLovingIt]

Yep, they always have a great working selection on display at my Home Depot so you can see how bright or dim they are.

[ERD50]

Quote:

Originally Posted by braumeister I've always been able to find great LED ceiling fixtures at Home Depot that exactly met my needs.

Yes, but it seems my wants (as listed in the OP) are more stringent then your (or my) needs. So I'll keep trying to find something to fit my wants, before I fall back to my needs.

To recap (for you an others with similar comments), I don't want a fixture with integrated LEDs. I want the flexibility of choosing my own LED replacements, for color and brightness, and maybe dimming (not all LEDs work well with all LED dimmers, that sometimes takes some research for a good match).

It's hard to judge in the store how that brightness and color will look in the home. So I want a fixture with replaceable LED tubes. If I don't like the brightness/color in one area, I can buy different ones, and probably find a home for the others in a less critical place (garage/workshop).

As an example, when I replaced the old fluorescent tubes in the kitchen in our previous home, they were startlingly bright (even though some reviewers complained they were not bright) and harsh, with strong shadows from the two direct lines of LEDs facing straight down (old glass tubes radiate in all directions axially) . I ended up turning the tubes upside down, which diffused the light, and dimmed it enough to make them just about right. So you never know.

I just stopped at our nearby Menards, and they had something close enough and in-stock, that I will just go for it for now. It is a 2-tube fixture (tubes not included), slim enough to fit and not hit the cabinet doors. It's no beauty, but much nicer than a shop light, and DW said "good enough" based on the pictures. It has an electronic ballast, which seems a shame to disconnect and probably never use, but for $20, it gets me there.

https://www.menards.com/main/lightin...8929924&ipos=7



But maybe someone will find something better? I'll be waiting a few days before I buy.

Thanks for the feedback - ERD50

[Boho]

I bought my last kitchen light at Home Depot and the biggest problem was the shade which was way too hard to take off. I saw a video a few days ago where someone said they often break when removed. Shade removal is the one thing I'd want to check. There is a design that worked easily enough once I figured it out, where you press in on the side of the shade to release small tabs, which are built into the shade, from the frame. It looked like the one on the left, while the difficult modern ones look like the one on the right:



The one ERD50 just posted looks like it may open the easy way. I'd just need something prettier for the kitchen.

[ERD50]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boho I bought my last kitchen light at Home Depot and the biggest problem was the shade which was way too hard to take off. I saw a video a few days ago where someone said they often break when removed. Shade removal is the one thing I'd want to check. There is a design that worked easily enough once I figured it out, where you press in on the side of the shade to release small tabs, which are built into the shade, from the frame. It looked like the one on the left, while the difficult modern ones look like the one on the right: The one ERD50 just posted looks like it may open the easy way. I'd just need something prettier for the kitchen.

That problem came up in the Amazon comments, but one person described a certain way to squeeze the metal that will release the cover easily. Of course, those instructions were printed *inside* the fixture!

Quote:

The problem in mounting the wrap round lens into the casing is readily solved by crimping tightly the two small flimsy lugs in the end caps against each SIDE plate (NOT the END plate and NOT the BOTTOM). This frees space for the lens to be mounted easily. In fact I find mine a bit slack now.

Quote:

There's also a trick to removing the plastic bulb cover, which I broke while trying to remove! Of course once the cover is removed, the instructions inside the light fixture explain how to remove it so it doesn't break! Arrgg

Amazon charges about $8 more, and many complained of shipping damage, so picking it up locally winds for me.

-ERD50

[ERD50]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissMolly OK, how about this one? https://www.amazon.com/Lithonia-Ligh...495401&sr=8-29

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissMolly Or this one? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07H362J9L...x_B07P14SPQR_0

Thanks, but those both have integrated LEDs, which is what I prefer to avoid, for flexibility and the environment (those fixtures will be thrown out when the LEDs/drivers fail, or someone decides they want a warmer/cooler color).

-ERD50

[dixonge]

These might fit the bill - can work with *or* without ballast. Fit into standard fluorescent fixtures...


https://www.hyperikon.com/category/hybrid-led-tubes/


They sell in 6-packs on Amazon

[easysurfer]

ERD50,

Welcome to the world of LEDs. I seem to recall a time when you were very hesitant. Nice to aee you've finally seen the light (pun intended).

I prefer individual bulbs also. But I do have a very good lamp that has a non removeable bulb and has survived a few knock overs (clumsy me).

[ERD50]

Quote:

Originally Posted by easysurfer ERD50, Welcome to the world of LEDs. I seem to recall a time when you were very hesitant. Nice to see you've finally seen the light (pun intended). I prefer individual bulbs also. But I do have a very good lamp that has a non removeable bulb and has survived a few knock overs (clumsy me).

Not sure what you mean by 'very hesitant' about LEDs? I bought two of these tubes to replace the FL tubes in our kitchen fixture back in early 2016, was very happy with them and bought 2 more a year later to replace the flickering ones in a shop light in the basement. I've purchased a half dozen or so individual bulbs in high use fixtures to replace those awful (but sometimes useful in their time) CFLs.

Maybe you confuse "very hesitant" with a fact-based acknowledgement of the pros/cons? LEDs have some issues. One big issue is that this long lifetime spec (as I've mentioned) is complete BS. That is an extrapolation of a short term test to estimate the point the LED will reduce in brightness to 70% of original value, it has nothing to do with the driver circuitry failing, and the bulb "burning out" (usually due to the heat degrading the capacitors in the driver circuit). The public is being scammed over this (and yes, *some* will last a long time, but on average the drivers go out long before that published rating). The second is that dimming is still a problem, even with an LED rated dimmer. If you read some reviews, you'll find that some people have good luck with X brand dimmer, and Y brand LED bulb, Others need to use Y brand dimmer with X brand LED. And who knows when either changes the design slightly, causing problems in the future? And what if you decide to buy some other brand bulbs, and now those don't work well with your installed dimmer? That was never a problem with filament bulbs. Truly plug-and-play.

I experienced this problem myself, I had name brand LED/CFL dimmers for the ceiling lights in the kitchen, bought a pack of bulbs from Costco, and everything seemed fine. Then I notice at many settings, the LEDs are randomly jumping around in brightness. Very intermittent and weird. I finally 'fixed' the issue by replacing one bulb in the fixtures on that dimmer with a plain old filament bulb. The plain old resistance (power factor of one - near zero capacitive/inductive reactance with a filament bulb) damps out the reactance of the LEDs, and that worked. Of course, this means I'm not getting the energy savings I hoped for (one out of three filament bulbs on one dimmer, and one out of two on the other), and the color changes on the filament bulb as you dim, but not on the LEDs, so it looks a little weird.

And I'm also against being forced to buy them. In a closet, or any place with low use, a filament bulb is just fine - cheaper and better for the environment. There is less environmental cost to producing a filament bulb than an LED, in a low use fixture, you never recoup that 'cost' in energy savings. Let me decide what bulb I want in each socket. Don't feed me a one-size fits all mandate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dixonge These might fit the bill - can work with *or* without ballast. Fit into standard fluorescent fixtures... https://www.hyperikon.com/category/hybrid-led-tubes/ They sell in 6-packs on Amazon

Thanks, but I'm not having trouble finding LED tubes (though I did find they are cheaper locally, probably due to shipping costs on that size package?) - it's the 'bare' (no ballast/tubes) fixtures I'm ISO. And though it's not a deal breaker, I prefer buying LED tubes that are *not* ballast compatible. I won't be using a ballast. A ballast wastes energy, are another point of failure, and compatibility complicates the design of the LED tube. And if I leave the ballast in, and ever want/need to replace an LED tube, I need to make sure I get a ballast compatible bulb, which limits my choices to that type, which seem to be becoming more rare as people figure out it is best to bypass the ballast anyhow.

-ERD50

[calmloki]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERD50 Yes, but it seems my wants (as listed in the OP) are more stringent then your (or my) needs. So I'll keep trying to find something to fit my wants, before I fall back to my needs. To recap (for you an others with similar comments), I don't want a fixture with integrated LEDs. I want the flexibility of choosing my own LED replacements, for color and brightness, and maybe dimming (not all LEDs work well with all LED dimmers, that sometimes takes some research for a good match). It's hard to judge in the store how that brightness and color will look in the home. So I want a fixture with replaceable LED tubes. If I don't like the brightness/color in one area, I can buy different ones, and probably find a home for the others in a less critical place (garage/workshop). As an example, when I replaced the old fluorescent tubes in the kitchen in our previous home, they were startlingly bright (even though some reviewers complained they were not bright) and harsh, with strong shadows from the two direct lines of LEDs facing straight down (old glass tubes radiate in all directions axially) . I ended up turning the tubes upside down, which diffused the light, and dimmed it enough to make them just about right. So you never know. I just stopped at our nearby Menards, and they had something close enough and in-stock, that I will just go for it for now. It is a 2-tube fixture (tubes not included), slim enough to fit and not hit the cabinet doors. It's no beauty, but much nicer than a shop light, and DW said "good enough" based on the pictures. It has an electronic ballast, which seems a shame to disconnect and probably never use, but for $20, it gets me there. https://www.menards.com/main/lightin...8929924&ipos=7 But maybe someone will find something better? I'll be waiting a few days before I buy. Thanks for the feedback - ERD50

Other than the appearance you seem to have found a good solution. Was going to suggest buying a fixture with bulbs, because you are going to have to start your light quality search somewhere and it could be that the supplied bulbs fit your needs, but a quick glance at home depot reveals that light included fixtures run $100+ while 4' LED bulbs are ~ $20/pair, so a $20 bare fixture gives you a chance to try 3 other bulb choices at no extra cost.
But the appearance.. hiding the fixture seems a good plan, but difficult to reconcile with lighting the interior of the laundry cabinets.