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Old 09-23-2011, 06:04 PM   #21
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OP said he is planning to sell in the next few years.

Good luck to anyone who has to sell a house in the next few months!
Yeah, I know. Well, not the next few months, but we hope to sell our place by next spring. Sucks to be us
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Old 09-23-2011, 10:03 PM   #22
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I wouldn't replace anything. You won't get back what you put in. Price sells in this market. Besides, if you can't sell, then you might want to rent it and you don't want tenants destroying your investment.
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I have wondered how useful it would be to give an "allowance" to prospective buyers to replace old countertops/applicances etc. so they can pick out what they like.
Any opinions on this?
Spouse and I are the kind of open-house junkies who can walk into a place and see its potential... and of course the things that are screwed up. We can appreciate the layout, the walls & ceilings, and the things that are difficult to change. Decor is just decor, it's not as hard to change, and the crappier it looks then the better for us as potential buyers.

What we've learned, though, is that we are in the microscopic minority of open-house visitors. The vast majority of the HGTV generation cannot see the potential in a place. They can't visualize what it would look like with granite counters. They can look at a granite counter and decide whether or not they like it, but they don't want to have to look at Formica and think about how it would look in granite.

So not only is "do nothing" not an option, but a decorating allowance is not an option either. You can do what the realtor suggests and make it attractive to a high percentage of the viewers, while charging them a higher price for having done the upgrades, and with less time/hassle.

Or you can wait a long time for the one customer who can see the potential in the place, and who knows enough about what they're doing to lowball you. I think the time/hassle will outweigh the potential savings of not doing the upgrades.

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We learned that builder-grade granite looks blah, and stains easily. Not all granite will stain easily - if it did, it couldn't be used for statues and buildings that are exposed to the elements for hundreds of years. Also, you will find 3/4-inch granite veneer bonded to plywood, which costs far less than the solid stone.
Based on research, we decided that in a used home, we'd rather get good Formica or Corian than builder-grade granite.
We're much happier with Corian too, and it doesn't need maintenance.
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Old 09-23-2011, 10:29 PM   #23
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So not only is "do nothing" not an option, but a decorating allowance is not an option either. You can do what the realtor suggests and make it attractive to a high percentage of the viewers, while charging them a higher price for having done the upgrades, and with less time/hassle.
Having sold two houses in Chicago in the last 1.5 yrs (latest was May 2011), you can do the what the realtor suggests, and you DON'T get to charge a higher price (or may even have to reduce the price). Some of the comps I saw did upgrades and reduced their price for a short sale. Like it or not, that's the current housing market here. Hopefully by the time you sell, the market gets better.
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Old 09-24-2011, 05:34 AM   #24
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Based on research, we decided that in a used home, we'd rather get good Formica or Corian than builder-grade granite.
Agreed, Amethyst.
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Old 09-24-2011, 05:41 AM   #25
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Hey, Nords, we are the same.

We always do a lot of scouting and buy a needy house in a good neighborhood and fix it up.

It amazes us that many--maybe most--people cannot see potential. All they can see is what is there, not what could be.

The only allowance that makes sense to us is a carpet allowance. (In general, for other folks, not us. We either buy a house with a wood floor or tear out the carpet and put wood flooring in.)

We have also found that if a house needs upgrading, we do it for ourselves, long before we have to sell. That way we get to enjoy it. Doing it at the last minute in order to sell may trick you into doing something that doesn't make sense, that you wouldn't do for yourself.
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Old 09-24-2011, 06:15 AM   #26
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How old are the appliances? How much more out-dated will the kitchen look when you sell "in a few years"? Why not redo all the kitchen stuff now and enjoy it til then.
Because it will cost $20 to $30K to do it all, just not worth it for 2 years IMO.
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Old 09-24-2011, 06:21 AM   #27
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What we've learned, though, is that we are in the microscopic minority of open-house visitors. The vast majority of the HGTV generation cannot see the potential in a place. They can't visualize what it would look like with granite counters. They can look at a granite counter and decide whether or not they like it, but they don't want to have to look at Formica and think about how it would look in granite.

So not only is "do nothing" not an option, but a decorating allowance is not an option either. You can do what the realtor suggests and make it attractive to a high percentage of the viewers, while charging them a higher price for having done the upgrades, and with less time/hassle.
Wow, my sister used to be a realtor and this is exactly what she said almost verbatim. I was just hoping she was wrong.

I think I am going to have to bite the bullet and do the counters and floor. I can change all the appliances in a day or two, so I won't do that without testing the waters first. I may live to regret it, but I don't want to replace the cabinets, and painted cabinets look awful to me so I'm not going that route.
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Old 09-24-2011, 06:46 AM   #28
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Because it will cost $20 to $30K to do it all, just not worth it for 2 years IMO.
Having recently built a house and sold a house, I would suggest that you replace the countertops, appliances, flooring and refinish the cabinets. We shopped around a lot and I think you can do it for a lot less than $20k (possibly 1/2 of that or less) particularly if you do some of the work yourself.

We decided on Corian rather than granite as DW liked the integrated sink and was worried about dropping a heavy pan on the countertop and cracking the granite. I will admit that the granite looked nice. We took advantage of a sale and the Corian was $39/sf, including a free sink, about $2,200 in total. We also shopped around for our appliances as well and were able to buy good quality Kenmore SS appliances (French door fridge, dishwasher, stove, microhood) for a little over $3,000 and picked them up ourselves in our truck.

On the countertops, there are products out there to refinish Formica countertops and make them "look" like stone, but the result looks a bit chintzy to my eye. There are also some nice products out there for refinishing the cabinets.
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Old 09-24-2011, 08:46 AM   #29
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I would do the counter tops ,floor & appliances . The old appliances will drag down the other updates and an appliance package is not that much more money .
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Old 09-24-2011, 09:48 AM   #30
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Costco occasionally offers a Whirlpool kitchen suite of appliances for, well, I forget, maybe $3000...
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Old 09-24-2011, 11:22 AM   #31
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I agree with those who have recommended replacing countertops and appliances, but refinishing the cabinets provided they are well made, in good structural shape and the layout works. I've seen some beautiful cabinet refinishing jobs.
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Old 09-24-2011, 01:20 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Nords

Spouse and I are the kind of open-house junkies who can walk into a place and see its potential... and of course the things that are screwed up. We can appreciate the layout, the walls & ceilings, and the things that are difficult to change. Decor is just decor, it's not as hard to change, and the crappier it looks then the better for us as potential buyers.

What we've learned, though, is that we are in the microscopic minority of open-house visitors. The vast majority of the HGTV generation cannot see the potential in a place. They can't visualize what it would look like with granite counters. They can look at a granite counter and decide whether or not they like it, but they don't want to have to look at Formica and think about how it would look in granite.

So not only is "do nothing" not an option, but a decorating allowance is not an option either. You can do what the realtor suggests and make it attractive to a high percentage of the viewers, while charging them a higher price for having done the upgrades, and with less time/hassle.

Or you can wait a long time for the one customer who can see the potential in the place, and who knows enough about what they're doing to lowball you. I think the time/hassle will outweigh the potential savings of not doing the upgrades.

We're much happier with Corian too, and it doesn't need maintenance.
The suggested asking price you will get from realtors will be 20 % less than what you think your house worth. Add to that the 7% of closing and realtor costs. If you want to make things worse go ahead and spend more money on your home. HGTV is a good lesson. They make improvements and then have an open house. And the house never sells. And that's with doing 20k of improvements for 2 thousand bucks. Lol.
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Old 09-24-2011, 01:23 PM   #33
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The suggested asking price you will get from realtors will be 20 % less than what you think your house worth. Add to that the 7% of closing and realtor costs. If you want to make things worse go ahead and spend more money on your home. HGTV is a good lesson. They make improvements and then have an open house. And the house never sells. And that's with doing 20k of improvements for 2 thousand bucks. Lol.
Spoken like a true veteran of the Florida real estate bust...
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Old 09-24-2011, 01:34 PM   #34
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Spoken like a true veteran of the Florida real estate bust...
Good point. If you look at the thousands of foreclosures, many were remodeled before they were taken back by the bank.
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Old 09-24-2011, 01:58 PM   #35
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Spoken like a true veteran of the Florida real estate bust...
I'll add that it is so bad down here that you can buy a home for the cost of a kitchen remodel. It's hard to ask much more than 100 bucks/sq.ft. So, that is part of my bias. For sure.
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Old 09-24-2011, 02:05 PM   #36
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Regarding rock counter tops:

A stonemason ex-neighbor told me that statues in Europe are preserved against acid rain with paraffin. I'd asked about a slab of white marble that I want to use on top of the tile counter. The slab has been out in the weather and was all stained and nasty - asked about polishing it and sealants so it would work in the coffee making area as well as a surface to knead bread.

He claimed that I didn't want a high polish for my purpose, but rather a gloss which I could achieve with 400 grit silicone carbide paper (also said Harbor Freight had a random orbital set of pads for wet use/high production for $15 or so). After cleaning and polishing he said I could put the marble into the oven at 250 degrees, then paint with melted paraffin. He said it penetrated very well, was highly resistant to staining, and was easy to touch-up or repair. Also said that putting the marble on a good hot chunk of asphalt for a while would also do the heating trick.

The pad sander with sandpaper has brought the marble back to white and a smooth glossy finish - hot pavement is readily available down south, so I'll be giving his method a try.


Regarding tile counter tops: I do not like them; grout joints are dirt and stain magnets
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Old 09-24-2011, 02:47 PM   #37
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I would not choose granite myself. But right or wrong, if you watch HGTV House Hunters and other programs like it (as I have been since we've started planning to sell our house), almost invariably couples seem to be looking for granite and stainless steel. Some of them insist they want granite and then can't even tell what they are looking at, have to ask the realtor 'is this granite?'

Kitchen floors aren't quite as well defined, but we have vinyl which no one seems to be looking for (and I agree frankly). And cabinets seem to be a wild card too, though high end is of course preferred. Fortunately our kitchen size and layout are good...
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Old 09-24-2011, 04:00 PM   #38
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I will have to do some updating when I sell my house down the road. In my neighborhood, granite counter tops is overkill. Will just do Formica or something similar. Floors, will go with vinyl. And will need a new stove. Hate to even spend all that as this house will not go for top dollar due to poor location. But maybe it will help sell it.
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Old 09-24-2011, 04:09 PM   #39
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I will have to do some updating when I sell my house down the road. In my neighborhood, granite counter tops is overkill. Will just do Formica or something similar. Floors, will go with vinyl. And will need a new stove. Hate to even spend all that as this house will not go for top dollar due to poor location. But maybe it will help sell it.
I would suggest that you go to see your realtor before doing anything, to get his/her recommendations, and then follow those recommendations as closely as your budget for upgrades will allow. Realtors are glad to help sellers make the house more appealing, so that they have a better chance of selling the house quickly.
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Old 09-24-2011, 04:24 PM   #40
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Regarding rock counter tops:

Regarding tile counter tops: I do not like them; grout joints are dirt and stain magnets
Put tile over formica in our former rental soon to be main residence. Turned out nice. Given I use glass/plastic chopping boards, I'm hoping this won't be a problem. Time will tell though!
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