Large Amount of Greenback Cash

[RunningBum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermit Maybe the old guy didn't trust banks? Our government? Say in ain't so!

Sure, there are plenty of valid reasons for him to have that cash. I'm just saying that the friend is likely going to have to prove the validity. Rent money paid in cash and declared as income would be valid and hopefully easy to prove and be accepted. If the friend has some proof where the money came from, I'd just deposit it all at once and be ready to answer the questions. if this was a surprise to them, they probably won't have a good answer to give and would be at risk of losing it.

My post was mostly entertainment for me, wondering how I could pull off keeping a big bag of found cash like this, knowing it will never happen to me. And I'd probably only try to keep it in a case like this, where a relative had it stashed. If I actually found it somewhere, I'd try to find the rightful owner, and I'd also be leery of finding drug money that someone would kill for to get it back.

[RunningBum]

Thinking a bit more about this (why, I don't know!), if the old guy didn't trust banks, that pattern of behavior would probably be enough. If he had decent income, paid income taxes, minimal or no bank accounts or investment accounts, they could probably make a good case for a guy with a mattress bank.

[meierlde]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunningBum Thinking a bit more about this (why, I don't know!), if the old guy didn't trust banks, that pattern of behavior would probably be enough. If he had decent income, paid income taxes, minimal or no bank accounts or investment accounts, they could probably make a good case for a guy with a mattress bank.

In particular if the guy was over 80 the story is more easy. If he recalls the bank holiday of the 1930s he may have felt that cash at home was worth a lot, in case another bank holiday was coming. (Or recalling 2008 with the rumors of bank shutdowns felt the same that having cash was the way to go if ATM machines shutdown... Include his age in the narrative given to the bank.

[HFWR]

The cash management division of HFWR, Inc. is well-equipped to manage the dispersal of the funds in a controlled and suitably discrete manner, using techniques similar to those used by our marijuana-disposal division.

[Slow But Steady]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HFWR The cash management division of HFWR, Inc. is well-equipped to manage the dispersal of the funds in a controlled and suitably discrete manner, using techniques similar to those used by our marijuana-disposal division.

So you're going to smoke it?

[rayinpenn]

If I were a dishonest person I would stuff the greenbacks in a safe deposit and pay cash for everything I could..

I might think the government hasn't been a good custodian of my tax dollars... I think I paid them enough.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

[HFWR]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HFWR The cash management division of HFWR, Inc. is well-equipped to manage the dispersal of the funds in a controlled and suitably discrete manner, using techniques similar to those used by our marijuana-disposal division.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slow But Steady So you're going to smoke it?

Ha, no, just dispose of it in a controlled, environmentally-friendly manner...

[427Vette]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunningBum Thinking a bit more about this (why, I don't know!), if the old guy didn't trust banks, that pattern of behavior would probably be enough. If he had decent income, paid income taxes, minimal or no bank accounts or investment accounts, they could probably make a good case for a guy with a mattress bank.

Like you I keep thinking about this and I don't know why either. There is no chance that there was anything illegal about obtaining this money. He was in his late seventies to early eighties when he passed. He always had just a regular job with some self employment spurts here and there. There might be some cash taken for labor but it would be nearly impossible to work enough side jobs to get that kind of dollars socked away I would think. Growing up they were always a rock solid family who went to church on Sundays and never seemed to live large at all. I am thinking he either received this as an inheritance from a relative and didn't know what to do with it or like mentioned earlier had a fear of banks. Either way it its fun to think about.

I wonder where in his house they hid that large of a pile of cash. How much room does several hundred thousand take up?

Interesting point about the old crisp $100.00 bills. I wish it wasn't so out of line to ask my friend more questions!

[calmloki]

About 6"x2.5"x4.5" high and two pounds in weight.

What does one TRILLION dollars look like? (calculations & dimensions)

That assumes new bills and no wrappers.

In practice about $8000 in old $100 bills paperclipped in $1000 bundles barely fits into a small envelope.

[HF63]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayinpenn If I were a dishonest person I would stuff the greenbacks in a safe deposit and pay cash for everything I could.. I might think the government hasn't been a good custodian of my tax dollars... I think I paid them enough. Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

I do not think that one is dishonest by just keeping the cash and spending it on living expenses. Since when did it became a crime to safe keep one's money at home. There is a bigger crime committed by American companies when the play all kinds of games to avoid paying taxes. This is where the real crime is not some one keeping money at home. The guy earn it and wanted to keep next to him, I do not see a crime here at all.

[NYEXPAT]

+1 on the Bluebird card.

[calmloki]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HF63 I do not think that one is dishonest by just keeping the cash and spending it on living expenses. Since when did it became a crime to safe keep one's money at home. There is a bigger crime committed by American companies when the play all kinds of games to avoid paying taxes. This is where the real crime is not some one keeping money at home. The guy earn it and wanted to keep next to him, I do not see a crime here at all.

A few states agree with you:
Nebraska Ends 'Civil' Police Forfeiture Process, Will Require Convictions - Hit & Run : Reason.com

"Like many states (and the federal government), Nebraska has a system of "civil" asset forfeiture, which meant that police and prosecutors could attempt to seize somebody's property on the mere basis of suspicion of criminal activity. Conviction—indeed even a criminal charge—wasn't always necessary. This often makes the forfeiture a civil process that puts the burden of proof on the citizen to show that the property was innocent of criminal involvement."

[ERD50]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HF63 I do not think that one is dishonest by just keeping the cash and spending it on living expenses. Since when did it became a crime to safe keep one's money at home. ...

Well, it may very well need to be reported as part of the probate process. So there was no crime in the old man keeping the money at home (assuming it was legally gained and any income was reported), but it could be a crime to not report it to the probate court.

Now, if I knew all the beneficiaries well, and we all agreed, I'd be tempted to take the pragmatic approach of just dividing it up and spending it as cash over many years. But then, I'd always be worried that something would trigger an investigation, and a premeditated 'cover up' could end badly for all involved.

Quote:

There is a bigger crime committed by American companies when the play all kinds of games to avoid paying taxes. This is where the real crime is not some one keeping money at home. The guy earn it and wanted to keep next to him, I do not see a crime here at all.

That's not the definition of "dishonest" or "crime". Battery is OK because murder is worse?

-ERD50

[jetpack]

I had the same problem when my parent passed away. large cash hoard. The executor insisted on doing everything legit, and the cash was put in the bank. The bank said they see this thing all the time, and as the money was made legally, and now it was going into an estate account, there was no problems. no forms needed filled out. amount was ~$50k in mostly older bills.

... if I had tried to put his much in my own account, there would have been a problem.

[RunningBum]

Apparently 7400 bills can be stuffed in a shoebox. So $100K in $20 bills could easily fit. $100 bills would be much smaller.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/22/ny...-in-court.html

[Fermion]

The most I am going to inherit from a uncle or anyone is a used toothbrush, so while this thread is interesting, it is just fantasy for me.

[GrayHare]

The worry here for authorities is a death is a money laundering opportunity. From their point of view it is difficult to distinguish between the decedent's actual cash and someone paying a decedent's heir to claim the cash was the decedent's.

[rodi]

There's definitely a mistrust of banks among a certain generation. MIL kept hiding her stacks of paper US Treasury bonds. Then would forget where she hid them and accuse all her children of stealing them. Searches would ensue and they'd be found
- in the freezer in a ziploc
- in the dryer.
- between magazines
- in her sewing kit.
... When DH finally got legal guardianship he worked with the treasury department to get a list of bonds and converted them to electronic bonds....

[MRG]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodi There's definitely a mistrust of banks among a certain generation.

Very true and not just folks who lived through those times. My sister's late FIL hoarded cash in the walls of their modest home. Stacked in between 2x4 studs. While he never saw the depression per se, his parents tales had such an impression on him, he wouldn't trust a bank.

[RunningBum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadshort52 Like you I keep thinking about this and I don't know why either. There is no chance that there was anything illegal about obtaining this money. He was in his late seventies to early eighties when he passed. He always had just a regular job with some self employment spurts here and there. There might be some cash taken for labor but it would be nearly impossible to work enough side jobs to get that kind of dollars socked away I would think. Growing up they were always a rock solid family who went to church on Sundays and never seemed to live large at all. I am thinking he either received this as an inheritance from a relative and didn't know what to do with it or like mentioned earlier had a fear of banks. Either way it its fun to think about. I wonder where in his house they hid that large of a pile of cash. How much room does several hundred thousand take up? Interesting point about the old crisp $100.00 bills. I wish it wasn't so out of line to ask my friend more questions!

You said he did ask you for help dealing with it, so asking questions may not be out of line. Up to you.

Since you say there's no way he did something illegal, I'll go with that. I wonder how old the bills are. If they vary in age from new to 60 years old, that's a pattern of socking it away and would look very legit. If they are mostly pretty new, or all from around the same date, it raises a lot of questions of how he or someone else came into sudden wealth like that.

I just checked my wallet, 27 bills, oldest from 2000. So let's say most of the bills are from 1964-1980. That tells me that in 1980, he (or someone who gave him the money) came across a big stash. Did he find a pile of drug money, or a bag from a bank heist? Was another relative involved in illegal activities and he inherited the cash? Or a friend was involved, and gave him a suitcase to hold until things cooled down, and never came back for it? This isn't legally obtained money. Maybe the statue of limitations will have run out. Not sure how that works. More reason to contact a lawyer.

Of course the old guy may have decided at some point he didn't trust banks anymore, and pulled all of his money out, but there would probably still be a record of that transaction somewhere. Or moved into a house and found money in a wall. I think you're supposed to pay taxes on that, but again statute of limitations may have run out.

Sounds like jetpack has the most useful answer based on experience. I'd be running it by an estate attorney first. Running it through the estate seems like the best way. Especially with multiple people involved. Otherwise, not only do you have to be careful, but you have to hope that the others are too.

Not quite as much fun to have $100K in a bank than it is to be spending it down in cash, but it'd be nice not having to look over your shoulder all the time.