Leave car running?

[kyounge1956]

This isn't a problem with our diesel VW, as long as you aren't next to a gas pump too. But in the old days the attendant would shut off the pump if they saw somebody doing that with gas. If you have another oportunity, you might want to narc the idjit out to the attendant.

This was several years ago. I've never seen the guy again. Didn't think of telling the attendant, I just wanted to get out of there quick. I finished filling my car (I don't remember now but may already have been pumping when this guy pulled in) and left. When you come to think of it how much smarter was I to stay there on the other side of the pump island from that guy than he was to gas up with his engine going? I probably should have just hung up the pump and split.

 

[yakers]

I have a Jeep diesel and I let it run a good bit rather than turn it off. I often let it run when refueling as it is actually legal, it is not a spark ignition, diesel fuel does not vaporize like gas, you can vent it to the atmosphere and there is no problem. Also if you run biodiesel (I do when I can get it) you can spill it and have no more environmental event than spilling vegetable oil. And there are no measurable emissions.
Now I am facing a particular circumstance where I will be spending a week in the Black Rock desert in Nevada in September, often over 100 degrees. I did this once in my old VW camper without AC and I am just not willing to be that hot that long again. I expect to crawl into the Jeep and let the AC run for several hours a day. I checked with the experts on this vehicle and it should only take 1 gal of fuel for four hours of idling and there is no mechanical damage to the engine, it can literally idle indefinitely, probably need to change the oil after 150 hours. Not meant to hijack the thread jut to point out that diesels are different. I would not leave it unattended though.

 

[Nords]

I agree that on the Prius, a traditional starter is not used but that doesn't stop the questions about stopping and starting a LARGE number of times with other engine wear. It does use synthetic low viscosity oil to get over the issue of lubrication at start-up (5/30 I think)

The Prius' motor generator spins the engine up to ~1000 rpm before the fuel injectors take over. (I wonder how high a starter motor gets a traditional internal-combustion engine? I can tell audibly that it's a lot less than 1000 RPM on our Altima.) Since most engine wear comes from the gasoline kicking it to life, I guess 1000 RPM gets the 5W-30 oil circulating enough to avoid wear from start/stop cycles.

If engine starting wear was so bad, you'd expect manufacturers to impose a fuel-injection delay to allow the starter motor to roll the engine and its oil pump before combustion. So I think we're splitting hairs.

I've been driving a stick shift for so long that on the rare occasions I get to drive our Prius, when its engine shuts down my left foot frantically tries to stomp on a clutch before I stall out.

PriusChat.com has many stories of drivers screwing up with the smart-key fob. It allows you to unlock & start the car based on the fob's proximity, so you don't even need to take the fob out of your pocket-- let alone have it in the dash when running. So inexperienced or distracted drivers will park their Prius (at which point the engine has usually shut off), get out, and walk away while the car is still powered "on". This causes a huge amount of trouble at valet parking garages...

 

[lets-retire]

Nords--Imposing a delay in the injectors wouldn't stop the wear on the engine, unless the oil pump were designed to be electrical instead of mechanical (which might be the case, as my experience is with the older cars with a distributor/rotor). Since a mechanical oil pump is connected to the bottom of the rotor, which is connected to the spin of the pistons, it still takes a couple seconds for the oil that has drained back into the oil pan to reach the engine. The amount of oil that has drained back down during a short stop is minimal, but after sitting for a few hours there is very little oil in the engine, causing most of the wear. I doubt any manufacturer is too concerned about this wear, because they want the job security of engine replacements.

 

[cantlogin]

Nords--Imposing a delay in the injectors wouldn't stop the wear on the engine, unless the oil pump were designed to be electrical instead of mechanical (which might be the case, as my experience is with the older cars with a distributor/rotor). Since a mechanical oil pump is connected to the bottom of the rotor, which is connected to the spin of the pistons, it still takes a couple seconds for the oil that has drained back into the oil pan to reach the engine. The amount of oil that has drained back down during a short stop is minimal, but after sitting for a few hours there is very little oil in the engine, causing most of the wear. I doubt any manufacturer is too concerned about this wear, because they want the job security of engine replacements.

Although this is starting to stray a little from the original topic, I'll make the observation that the forces and loads placed on bearing and wear surfaces due to rotation by an external power source are quite a bit different from those generated by the internal combustion cycle.

 

[Alan]

PriusChat.com has many stories of drivers screwing up with the smart-key fob. It allows you to unlock & start the car based on the fob's proximity, so you don't even need to take the fob out of your pocket-- let alone have it in the dash when running. So inexperienced or distracted drivers will park their Prius (at which point the engine has usually shut off), get out, and walk away while the car is still powered "on". This causes a huge amount of trouble at valet parking garages...

I wondered about this. The salesman bragged about it at the time but it was an option we did not choose. It sounded a bit strange and I wondered about forgetting the key. Too often I rely on the alarm warning me that I have left the fob in the slot when I start to get out.

 

[Nords]

I wondered about this. The salesman bragged about it at the time but it was an option we did not choose. It sounded a bit strange and I wondered about forgetting the key. Too often I rely on the alarm warning me that I have left the fob in the slot when I start to get out.

After all the threads on the subject, I'm glad that we don't have the smart-key system fob or the backup camera. Or the Bluetooth interface.

I considered installing an engine-block heater but decided that I was being too [-]anal-retentive obsessive compulsive[/-] nuclear about it...

 

[Danny]

I considered installing an engine-block heater but decided that I was being too [-]anal-retentive obsessive compulsive[/-] nuclear about it...

Why?

 

[Nords]

Why?

The nuclear issue? A solid year of classroom & reactor plant training followed by nearly 19 years of living the lifestyle. I tend to question everything and attempt to overoptimize things to the point where Dilbert (and even my spouse) would refer to me as a f%^&in' nuke.

The engine block heater? The car uses its internal combustion engine at startup to warm up the engine & catalytic converter to optimize its fuel consumption and reduce its emissions. It tries to conserve the heat, too-- when the car is shut off, it even pumps most of its coolant into an insulated tank to keep it warm for short-stop errands. While reverse-engineering this design philosophy without Toyota's assistance, several fellow [-]f%^&'in nukes[/-] Prius hypermiler enthusiasts have noticed that a half-hour warmup with the (electric) engine block heater persuades the car's ECU that the internal combustion engine doesn't need to be run at startup. It boosts gas mileage and saves more gas than it costs in equipment & electricity.

However it's a knuckle-buster to install and it requires forethought to use before driving. It has a bigger effect in cold climates than it does in Hawaii. And with the way our teen drives, too, we'd never notice the small improvement in fuel economy. But she's getting better...

 

[Danny]

oh, I see - had no idea what you would be doing with one in HI...engine block heater used by some here to help get the engine cranking in cold weather....got down to -25 last week didn't get over 0 for more than 4 days...don't have one myself - young battery and prayer before turning key worked every time.

I'm going to look at the next generation Prius that will be coming out later this year - I think? maybe with gas low and sales slow I could get a good deal.

 

[NW-Bound]

PS: My BIL would routinely go out to "warm up the car", and then come in and gab for at *least* another hour before leaving. But that's BIL's for you.
...

My BIL does not leave his car running. But, he usually leaves his key AND his wallet in the car as he visits us, and parks in the street in front of our house.

And yes, he does not use seatbelts, as he claimed that in a past accident, he was hurt more by the belt than if he did not use it. I don't know how he would know that his face against the steering wheel would hurt less than the belt against his torso. But that's BIL for you.

 

[haha]

And yes, he does not use seatbelts, as he claimed that in a past accident, he was hurt more by the belt than if he did not use it. I don't know how he would know that his face against the steering wheel would hurt less than the belt against his torso. But that's BIL for you.

Obviously a fool. I was in a head on, and the belt as well as the airbags did some considerable damage, broken ribs, pelvis sprains, back sprains, etc. But here I am, and I would not be but for both of those. I remember a very short lag between impact, belt tightening, and then airbag catching me as I jacknifed over the chest belt. All very fast, but the belt was important IMO.

Can't his wife make him wear it? For the children? For her? She could tell him she prefers a husband with a face.

ha

 

[TromboneAl]

he does not use seatbelts, as he claimed that in a past accident, he was hurt more by the belt than if he did not use it.

I have a distinct memory of driving with a neighbor (Mrs. Puccinelli) when I was about seven, and seat belts were just becoming common. She said "These things are dangerous. What if I were to drive off a bridge?"

 

[W2R]

I have a distinct memory of driving with a neighbor (Mrs. Puccinelli) when I was about seven, and seat belts were just becoming common. She said "These things are dangerous. What if I were to drive off a bridge?"

I remember those days. I am thinking of around 1955 or so. People wouldn't wear seatbelts, and there weren't any laws requiring it either. There weren't any warning labels on cigarette packages either, the usage of lard or Crisco in cooking was not that uncommon, there were fewer gyms in many regions, no airbags in cars, and "cocktail parties" were the rage or so we were told.

I wonder if our life expectancy has gone up that much since then, and by how much? I would hope that all of our collective efforts to alter our behaviors and stay safe and healthy would have added at least 5 years to the average life expectancy.

I am sure that advances in medicine have probably added a lot to our life expectancy, too.

 

[OAG]

I remember those days. I am thinking of around 1955 or so. People wouldn't wear seatbelts, and there weren't any laws requiring it either. There weren't any warning labels on cigarette packages either, the usage of lard or Crisco in cooking was not that uncommon, there were fewer gyms in many regions, no airbags in cars, and "cocktail parties" were the rage or so we were told.

I wonder if our life expectancy has gone up that much since then, and by how much? I would hope that all of our collective efforts to alter our behaviors and stay safe and healthy would have added at least 5 years to the average life expectancy.

I am sure that advances in medicine have probably added a lot to our life expectancy, too.

Reductions in amount of smoking and getting people to exercise more probably did more for the increase in life expectancy. Of course all the other stuff has created jobs and revenue for the "state" (through Sales Taxes, Employment Taxes, and Violation Taxes) if nothing else. Hard to validly quantify the impact. I think I am letting my libertarian leanings show.

 

[kyounge1956]

I have a distinct memory of driving with a neighbor (Mrs. Puccinelli) when I was about seven, and seat belts were just becoming common. She said "These things are dangerous. What if I were to drive off a bridge?"

Well as Butch said to Sundance on a similar occasion:

"What're you worried about?! Just the fall'll kill you."

 

[NW-Bound]

Can't his wife make him wear it? For the children? For her? She could tell him she prefers a husband with a face.
ha

Their children are grown, so that's of no concern. I do not know my sister's position on car seat belts. However, their personalities match, in that they are somewhat more carefree than most people (I should have used the word careless). For example, they often leave their front door unlocked, whether they are home or not. Recently, they lock it, but leave the key hanging on the side of the door frame, in case their children come to visit, and want to get in.

Long, long time ago, other people in the family prodded them about that. Their answer was that nothing bad happened yet, and why we would wish bad luck would happen to them.

I am telling you, these things have not been brought up in our family for a long time. We have given up. Suffice to say, when our children were young, when the need arose, I would rather hire a baby sitter than to trust them with my children. Both my brothers share the same view regarding my sister and her husband. They would not trust them with their kids. They have a pool with fences around it (an AZ law), but tie the gate open for convenience.

One last thing, he put all his 401k into his megacorp stock. Last year, went to cash and took early retirement with nearly $2M in 401k, and pension to boot.

Here I am, trying to diversify and hedge and rebalance. Tell me, who am I to tell what somebody else to do?

 

[kumquat]

Can't his wife make him wear it? For the children? For her? She could tell him she prefers a husband with a face.

ha

Why not just suggest he increase his life insurance by a factor of 10. Cover both possibilities.

 

[Khan]

Their children are grown, so that's of no concern. I do not know my sister's position on car seat belts. However, their personalities match, in that they are somewhat more carefree than most people (I should have used the word careless). For example, they often leave their front door unlocked, whether they are home or not. Recently, they lock it, but leave the key hanging on the side of the door frame, in case their children come to visit, and want to get in.

Long, long time ago, other people in the family prodded them about that. Their answer was that nothing bad happened yet, and why we would wish bad luck would happen to them.

I am telling you, these things have not been brought up in our family for a long time. We have given up. Suffice to say, when our children were young, when the need arose, I would rather hire a baby sitter than to trust them with my children. Both my brothers share the same view regarding my sister and her husband. They would not trust them with their kids. They have a pool with fences around it (an AZ law), but tie the gate open for convenience.

One last thing, he put all his 401k into his megacorp stock. Last year, went to cash and took early retirement with nearly $2M in 401k, and pension to boot.

Here I am, trying to diversify and hedge and rebalance. Tell me, who am I to tell what somebody else to do?

IIRC there is some sort of psychological term for the belief that the longer one goes without adverse consequences, the the lower the likelihood of such; which is exactly the opposite of reality.

 

[travelover]

IIRC there is some sort of psychological term for the belief that the longer one goes without adverse consequences, the the lower the likelihood of such; which is exactly the opposite of reality.

Good point. Insurance companies should give a discount to people with recent accidents and sock it to those who are overdue.

J/K!

 

[mews]

I remember, at about 7 or so, when seatbelts started to be in cars.

My father was a private pilot. He had no problem with them. Nobody in our family had a problem - just one more place to buckle up.

Seatbelts and the collapsing steering-wheel column were probably the big lifesavers in car design. The shoulder harnesses, airbags, and so on are refining the design.

In terms of lifestyle, anti-smoking probably is the biggie.

ta,
mew

 

[harley]

In terms of lifestyle, anti-smoking probably is the biggie.

Personally, I believe non-smoking would be healthier. I know a few anti-smoking advocates that came close to early death by preaching at the poor smokers huddling outside in the sleet trying to suck down a quick one.