Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-26-2021, 08:09 PM   #261
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 26,821
Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound View Post
What is perplexing is that while Tesla AP can demonstrate good performance, at times it has shown some extremely bad behaviors such as ramming parked cars. Even the current FSD V9.2 is still disregarding road barricades, plus large obstacles on the road! ....
Thanks, I get distracted following the downtown Chicago sites I know.

So many disengagements. He mentioned GPS might have been off - I think I've observed that problem, lots of shading and maybe multi-path with those tall buildings and bridges.overpasses in downtown.

But separate from the obvious stuff, like not seeing a steel pillar or a barricade, the FSD has an odd combination of cautious and aggressive. Before I go further, before any of the forum FSD fans get upset, I better say it is still impressive what it can do, and yes, I know, it's 'beta' - but the gaps! OMG!

On the cautious side, it appears (maybe camera angle?) to stop pretty far behind the car ahead of it. And then (usually) takes some time to get going. As he mentioned at one point, the driver behind him was getting aggravated. Another time, it seemed to wait for a pedestrian on the far side of the intersection to get most (all?) of the way through before proceeding - the car to the left I'm sure was wondering when he was going to go. A human would see she was making progress, and time it to have plenty of time to slow down after being almost all the way through the intersection.

But many other times, it seems to do a rolling stop, one time so much that the driver reported it, he said it was 'kind of a roll'? That was barely slowing down, doesn't the FSD know to stop for a stop sign? And it didn't know to slow down for a speed bump?

And when that other car made a sharp left across the Tesla's lane, he had to intervene, and then complained about other drivers. Yes, the other driver was at fault. But I honestly think that when I'd be driving downtown, in that moderate traffic, I'd probably see some bad behavior from other drivers like that at least every couple minutes. You stay on your toes, react, and deal with it. Or don't drive downtown. It's not an outlier scenario - it's exactly the scenario that FSD fans tout about saving lives.

And the earlier rant from Sandy Munro, he says:

Quote:
01:16
um he let me
01:18
sit in his car and drive around
01:21
when i was in that car
01:23
we were in city streets
01:26
and we were making 60 and 120 degree
01:29
turns now that doesn't mean much to
01:32
anyone here but at slow speeds under 40
01:36
miles an hour
01:38
and
01:39
and
01:40
under normal driving conditions
01:43
making a 60 degree or 120 degree
01:46
left or right hand turn is really a big
01:49
deal
01:50
it it really truly proves that you have
01:53
something that's ai
01:55
artificial intelligence
01:57
there was no problem at all with the
02:00
tesla vehicles that i drove
I just expect that these are things that will take many years to improve to the point of letting the driver ignore the road.

-ERD50
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 08-27-2021, 12:28 PM   #262
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
Quote:
there was no problem at all with the tesla vehicles that I drove...

That's what impressionable laymen tend to think.

Now, I liked Munro, and he may be very knowledgeable about the mechanics of cars and how they are built, but what does he know about AI or self-driving technology?

I have not been inside a Tesla once in my life, FSD or not. But just searching Youtube for some info let me know a lot more about the state of the art in self-driving cars, what they can do and still cannot do, than taking a single ride in any of these demo cars.

It's amazing how people can be so naive, but then what is new?

By the way, I used to be impressed the most by Waymo systems, but having seen some videos from Mobileye, it really opened my eyes to what other competitors are doing. In case people forget, Mobileye is the company that built for Tesla its first self-driving system, before Tesla broke off and started to develop its own system. Mobileye has been brought out by Intel, and is the supplier of driver assistance systems installed in many current cars. The simple lane-keeping and forward collision avoidance in my GM car is from Mobileye.

Maybe I will share some more videos later, but do not want to spoonfeed info. People who are really interested in this technology can go look for themselves.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)

"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
NW-Bound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2021, 12:59 PM   #263
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Chuckanut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: West of the Mississippi
Posts: 17,173
It seems that Mercedes has beat Tesla in the goal to get a hands free driving system approved for use. Germany has approved the Mercedes system with some interesting restrictions:

Use on the Autobahns only
At speeds less than 37 mph (60kph)

It's a start.

https://europe.autonews.com/automake...iving-highways

Quote:
The automaker got the go-ahead to sell its Drive Pilot package for use on stretches of the country’s Autobahn network at a speed of up to 60 kph (37 mph).

The system was approved for Level 3 autonomous driving, a notch higher than Tesla's Level 2 Autopilot system, and will allow a drivers to take their hands off the wheel in slow-moving traffic.
__________________
Comparison is the thief of joy

The worst decisions are usually made in times of anger and impatience.
Chuckanut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2021, 01:28 PM   #264
Moderator
rodi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 14,171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckanut View Post
It seems that Mercedes has beat Tesla in the goal to get a hands free driving system approved for use. Germany has approved the Mercedes system with some interesting restrictions:

Use on the Autobahns only
At speeds less than 37 mph (60kph)

It's a start.

https://europe.autonews.com/automake...iving-highways
Ok, I'll bite... does anyone drive on the autobahns at less than 60kph? From my limited experience that is *only* when entering or exiting the autobahn - the moving speed is somewhere in excess of 100kph.
__________________
Retired June 2014. No longer an enginerd - now I'm just a nerd.
micro pensions 6%, rental income 20%
rodi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2021, 01:37 PM   #265
Moderator
braumeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Flyover country
Posts: 25,199
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodi View Post
Ok, I'll bite... does anyone drive on the autobahns at less than 60kph? From my limited experience that is *only* when entering or exiting the autobahn - the moving speed is somewhere in excess of 100kph.
That's an excellent point.
From what I know, the "recommended" top speed on the autobahn is 130 kph (80 mph) although there are sections without a limit.

I've read that the average speed is about 125 kph, so this self-driving feature will most likely only be used in urban areas where the speed limits are much lower.
__________________
I thought growing old would take longer.
braumeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2021, 02:02 PM   #266
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
JoeWras's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 11,701
This is how it is going to roll out. One small step at a time. Over decades.
__________________
Retired Class of 2018


JoeWras is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2021, 04:03 PM   #267
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 21,204
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeWras View Post
This is how it is going to roll out. One small step at a time. Over decades.
No one would ever drive 37 mph on the autobahn so I’m not sure how it’s a step. But I’m sure I’m missing something, we’ll see.
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 50% equity funds / 45% bonds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 1.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2021, 07:45 PM   #268
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 26,821
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodi View Post
Ok, I'll bite... does anyone drive on the autobahns at less than 60kph? From my limited experience that is *only* when entering or exiting the autobahn - the moving speed is somewhere in excess of 100kph.
Quote:
Originally Posted by braumeister View Post
That's an excellent point.
From what I know, the "recommended" top speed on the autobahn is 130 kph (80 mph) although there are sections without a limit.

I've read that the average speed is about 125 kph, so this self-driving feature will most likely only be used in urban areas where the speed limits are much lower.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack View Post
No one would ever drive 37 mph on the autobahn so I’m not sure how it’s a step. But I’m sure I’m missing something, we’ll see.
The answer to this was right in the post:

Quote:
Quote:
The automaker got the go-ahead to sell its Drive Pilot package for use on stretches of the country’s Autobahn network at a speed of up to 60 kph (37 mph).

The system was approved for Level 3 autonomous driving, a notch higher than Tesla's Level 2 Autopilot system, and will allow a drivers to take their hands off the wheel in slow-moving traffic.
I'd imagine that the autobahn is occasionally subjected to the same back-ups that we see here in the US on highways with 55 to 75 mph speed limits. Sometimes you are stuck in traffic at < 35 mph for a long time. It would be nice to be able to relax and not worry about bumping into the car ahead, or leaving a gap for someone to jump ahead of you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeWras View Post
This is how it is going to roll out. One small step at a time. Over decades.
Right, one step. Makes perfect sense.

-ERD50
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2021, 11:24 PM   #269
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Balatonfured
Posts: 394
It is interesting. I have an EQS on order. I wonder what the "upgrade" will cost? For example, the rear wheel turning feature as standard is included for 4.5 degrees. But the upgrade to 10-degree turning is a $3000 option and is only a matter of turning on a feature already built into the software. I am assuming this will be hackable eventually. This is a wonderful but insanely expensive car. Here, with the Edition One package and several other options like leather, it is almost $200k. The screen upgrade to 17 inches is $10k. Germans come here to Hungary to buy as it is about 10% less expensive. But the others are similarly priced although the Tesla S is about $30k less. My significant other didn't like the interior design of any of the Teslas and thinks a car costing $150k or more should be luxurious and not less nice than our current Passat. I also run a test using ChargeMap route planning for each of the cars and the EQS does better than the Tesla. I do a route from our home to Istanbul and only have to charge 3 times with the EQS but the Tesla is 6 times and all the others like the BMW or Audi's are 8 or 9 charges.

I do think the Tesla system is better. Often the roads here are worn and the road edges are not distinct. The Tesla system sees this but none of the others including my Passat. It turns off the road assist without warning when it loses sight of the edge of the road and is usually in a turn when it happens. The 37 kph limit makes sense (sort of) as every time I travel in Germany the route has numerous repairs going on. I drove to Bremen and had 47 repair zones in Germany. Most are moving slower than 37 kph. I will add I lived in Germany and this repair thing is "normal" and constantly under repair. I lived near Kaiserslautern and the main Autobahn there was always under repair constantly it just moves a few km down the road each month and when they get to the end they go back and do it all over again on a roughly 3-year cycle. I assume this is some kind of "make work" program or perhaps government corruption. The roads are fine and don't need the repairs at least not that frequently. These are concrete highways and very thick. They are built to serve as runways in wartime (yes still).

The funny thing is my 2015 Passat already has this feature and it works perfectly. It came standard on the car as did lane assist etc. But it yells at me if I take my hands off the wheel for more than 30 seconds even though it is doing its job fine. The lane assist feature works so well the car thinks I am asleep and shakes the steering wheel and warns me to wake up. This is on a 6-year-old car. The stop and go combined with lane assist works excellent in city traffic as well which never gets above 37 kph either especially in Vienna or Budapest.
Old Microbiologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2021, 05:03 AM   #270
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
JoeWras's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 11,701
Flaggers are gonna have to do better.

Recently, we were in rural NC and ran into a temporary 1-way road controlled by flaggers. I should have taken a picture. The situation was so obtuse it was hard for two of us to understand.

Basically, the flagger decided to plop himself down in the middle of the road, at in intersection, and try to control 4 way traffic. He also surrounded himself with about 10 traffic cones. His flipping of the stop/slow sign sometimes resulted in oblique angles. He also was controlling the cross traffic with eye contact and a swing of his head.

Ultimately, we went through based on an oblique view of "slow", a nod of his head, and maneuvering the vehicle through a chicane of sorts around the flagger, and then half driving on the dirt shoulder.

This kind of thing won't go away quickly in rural areas. Traffic departments don't have funds to set up fancy two-way communication devices to SD vehicles (which is one proposal I've seen for this problem). At least not anytime soon.

That's why I still see the SDVs rolling out in phases over the decades. Eventually, even rural flaggers will have the equipment and drug tests required to run it.
__________________
Retired Class of 2018


JoeWras is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2021, 07:04 AM   #271
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,510
Quote:
I just expect that these are things that will take many years to improve to the point of letting the driver ignore the road.

-ERD50
Quote:
This is how it is going to roll out. One small step at a time. Over decades. - JOE WRAS
I really did think the technology was more advanced than it was. I no longer expect to ever be in a car with the steering wheel removed.

Even the features of my lanekeeping, etc. car are problematic for me. I DO NOT KNOW WHERE TO PUT MY HANDS OR FEET. It takes more strength and strain and energy to partially hold the hands off the steering wheel than it does just to plop them down and use them. I cannot find a comfortable place to rest my foot that feels like I can reach the brake or the accelerator as quickly as I can when my foot is on one or the other. Maybe it's just me.
__________________
FIRED:
July 12, 2018. On safari to stay!
Pellice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2021, 07:21 AM   #272
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 21,204
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeWras View Post
Flaggers are gonna have to do better.

Recently, we were in rural NC and ran into a temporary 1-way road controlled by flaggers. I should have taken a picture. The situation was so obtuse it was hard for two of us to understand.

Basically, the flagger decided to plop himself down in the middle of the road, at in intersection, and try to control 4 way traffic. He also surrounded himself with about 10 traffic cones. His flipping of the stop/slow sign sometimes resulted in oblique angles. He also was controlling the cross traffic with eye contact and a swing of his head.

Ultimately, we went through based on an oblique view of "slow", a nod of his head, and maneuvering the vehicle through a chicane of sorts around the flagger, and then half driving on the dirt shoulder.

This kind of thing won't go away quickly in rural areas. Traffic departments don't have funds to set up fancy two-way communication devices to SD vehicles (which is one proposal I've seen for this problem). At least not anytime soon.

That's why I still see the SDVs rolling out in phases over the decades. Eventually, even rural flaggers will have the equipment and drug tests required to run it.
There are so many unusual driving situations human drivers have to think through (most pretty easily) I wonder how SD software will deal with those non uniform conditions. I suspect both sides, SD cars and construction, may have to give some.

And I’ve still not seen any SD examples dealing with heavy rain, snow and ice - realities for millions of drivers. Maybe I missed it though.

And I think no steering wheel is WAY off in the future, that would require zero interventions? Or will roadside assistance become, move my paralyzed SD car to a spot it can handle again? Maybe SD cars will have (rarely used) joysticks to manually slowly move cars away from obstacles? Who knows.

I wonder how many more pothole damaged rims and tires we’ll have with SD? Will the software ever be able to handle that? I believe we’ll have FSD eventually, hard to say when, I just hope it’s before the state has to take my drivers license away…
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 50% equity funds / 45% bonds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 1.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2021, 01:36 PM   #273
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Koolau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Leeward Oahu
Posts: 17,809
I picture a slow phase in of SDCs in which certain sections of roads would be authorized for their use. Such roads would at least start out as limited access highways with well maintained surfaces and especially carefully maintained lane markings. Sort of the walk before you run concept for self driving. A few million miles of experience on such highways would help software designers tweak things for more "complicated" driving experiences.

The vestige of dinosaur DNA in me still makes me think we'll never really eliminate the driver's direct input - though I see a time when SDCs CAN be integrated into overall safety improvement. YMMV
__________________
Ko'olau's Law -

Anything which can be used can be misused. Anything which can be misused will be.
Koolau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2021, 01:52 PM   #274
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Chuckanut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: West of the Mississippi
Posts: 17,173
We went from a few seconds of powered flight in an airplane to landing a man on the moon in 66 years. A bit less than the average life time of a person born in the mid twentieth century.

I imagine self driving cars may take less than 66 years. But, who knows for sure? Building an airplane must be child's play compared to building an artificial human brain for one's car.
__________________
Comparison is the thief of joy

The worst decisions are usually made in times of anger and impatience.
Chuckanut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2021, 01:55 PM   #275
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 26,821
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koolau View Post
I picture a slow phase in of SDCs in which certain sections of roads would be authorized for their use. Such roads would at least start out as limited access highways with well maintained surfaces and especially carefully maintained lane markings. Sort of the walk before you run concept for self driving. A few million miles of experience on such highways would help software designers tweak things for more "complicated" driving experiences.

The vestige of dinosaur DNA in me still makes me think we'll never really eliminate the driver's direct input - though I see a time when SDCs CAN be integrated into overall safety improvement. YMMV
I think I mentioned something along these lines way back, but different.

My thoughts were, big rigs would have the FSD capability, and it's use would be limited to certain highways at certain times (mainly weather related). But they would share the road with other vehicles.

Big rigs make sense, they cost a lot, and run many more miles/year than most cars. So the FSD investment would be smaller percent-wise and per-mile-wise. And it must be hard for a long haul driver to maintain attention, so being able to rest for long stretches would be a big help.

-ERD50
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2021, 03:02 PM   #276
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
I think I mentioned something along these lines way back, but different.

My thoughts were, big rigs would have the FSD capability, and it's use would be limited to certain highways at certain times (mainly weather related). But they would share the road with other vehicles.

Big rigs make sense, they cost a lot, and run many more miles/year than most cars. So the FSD investment would be smaller percent-wise and per-mile-wise. And it must be hard for a long haul driver to maintain attention, so being able to rest for long stretches would be a big help.

-ERD50
A few years ago, it was already envisioned that self-driving 18-wheelers would ply the highway at night, going between major towns on interstates or highways. They would pull into a large lot outside a major city center, where a driver would hop on board to drive them into town.

I thought that scheme has already been in use, but perhaps not. It surely sounded very feasible as the driving environment is benign, and the cost of instrumenting a big rig with expensive lidars and other sensors can be justified.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)

"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
NW-Bound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2021, 07:59 AM   #277
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
GTFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Ormond Beach
Posts: 1,407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckanut View Post
We went from a few seconds of powered flight in an airplane to landing a man on the moon in 66 years. A bit less than the average life time of a person born in the mid twentieth century.

I imagine self driving cars may take less than 66 years. But, who knows for sure? Building an airplane must be child's play compared to building an artificial human brain for one's car.
We've done lots of impressive stuff with humans in control, but this is totally different. Way too many edge cases for AI to handle and no real regs or legal framework in the near future.

Won't be available to the average consumer in this decade, IMO.
GTFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2022, 05:11 PM   #278
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
The New York Times recently released a video documentary on Tesla Self-Driving effort. I don't know where it was originally broadcast, but saw an upload of it on YouTube. Being interested in SDC technology, I watched the entire documentary. Basically, it told how Musk overpromised and hyped up the capabilities of Tesla's Autopilot, then FSD (Full Self Driving) to sell cars.

I saw nothing that I or anyone else who has been watching the news did not already know about, but some Tesla ex-engineers confirmed two things that I have always been suspicious of.

1) Misleading Promo Video:

Back in 2016 or so, Tesla Web site showed a video where a Tesla car demonstrated a run with full autonomy. A car left a home garage and drove itself to an office building and parked itself. Totally hand-off. Very impressive.

Musk said the Model 3 would have the necessary hardware all built-in, and any other car would be obsolete in a few years like horses. At the same time, or shortly after, Musk said private Tesla car owners could sign up for their cars to make autonomous taxi runs to make lots of money.

The ex-engineers said that they made and made several laps in order to get enough good video to edit to make the final cut. The car even hit a fence at one point, and they just patched it up and continued.

That video was so impressive, yet 6 years later, the final product is still not released. However, the video served its purpose. It generated good sales for the Tesla 3 to keep the company alive.

I just went on Tesla's Web site to look for this video, and have not found it. They either moved it elsewhere or deleted it.


2) Tesla's advantage of having 100K's of cars collecting data in real life:

The ex-engineer said it was all bogus, because the production cars did not have the hardware nor the software to collect and report the necessary data to help them understand the shortcomings and to fix it. Musk said that with fleet learning, when one car made a mistake, the rest would learn from it. This is totally bogus, as I suspected.

Back then, I said that Waymo and other SDC developers had fewer cars out testing their software, but these test cars were fully instrumented and could capture high-bandwidth video along with live sensor readings for the engineers to analyze later. This has always been how vehicle developers tune their design: by using special test vehicles with heavy instrumentation carried onboard. They don't use regular production vehicles. And this is for engine tuning, suspension tuning, etc..., which is a lot simpler than tuning something as complex as a self-driving system.

Now, with the beta release of FSD, Tesla put in a soft button which the driver can use to report an anomalous FSD action. I am curious what data would get sent back to Tesla. Perhaps all that is used for is to count how many times a day Tesla owners encounter an unsafe situation or narrowly avert a crash.

Indeed, I watched many YouTube videos posted by Tesla owners who were allowed to download FSD beta software, and I saw the car making the same mistakes again and again after several software releases although the owners kept pressing the button to report each instance. It was just a "placebo" button.


PS. By the way, one of the YouTubers was a Tesla employee. He showed many videos where he was able to react and override the self-driving system when it was about to hit a barricade, going down a rail track, etc... But after he posted the video of his car hitting a bollard because he was not quick enough that last time, he got fired by Tesla. Free speech and certainly showing the truth are not allowed at Tesla.



Part 1:

Part 2:
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)

"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
NW-Bound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2022, 05:41 PM   #279
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 8,309
It was a great piece. I need to re-watch it, though. I’m not sure any vehicle would’ve been able to avoid running under those semi-trailers. Two similar accidents. It was disappointing that no Gov’t Agency was willing or able to prevent repeat tragedies. .
__________________
...with no reasonable expectation for ER, I'm just here auditing the AP class.Retired 8/1/15.
jazz4cash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2022, 08:07 PM   #280
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazz4cash View Post
It was a great piece. I need to re-watch it, though. I’m not sure any vehicle would’ve been able to avoid running under those semi-trailers. Two similar accidents. It was disappointing that no Gov’t Agency was willing or able to prevent repeat tragedies. .
Ugh, the videos whose links I shared were pirated to post on YouTube. They have been taken down.

About self-driving cars running under semi-trailers, I am quite certain that cars with lidars will not do that. Lidars will see a solid object in front. A computer is needed to interpret that huge solid object as a truck, or a wall, or a hovering UFO, but it is straightforward logic to stomp on the brake. No object identification is really needed.

On the other hand, cars with just vision cameras have to identify all the objects in the field of view, and deduce or compute the distance to them. This depth data from vision is a tough problem, and Tesla back then did not have the software or the hardware powerful enough for the job. Tesla has done quite a bit more.

By the way, the Tesla cars that drove under the semi-trailers and had their top sheared off had radar sensors installed. So, how did the radar fail to detect the huge metallic object? Easily. These radars don't work the way traditional dish radars work to detect aircraft. There are many different kinds of radar, and the type used in cars is cheap.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)

"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
NW-Bound is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Self Driving Cars? mountainsoft Technology, Media & e-Gadgets 1433 03-27-2020 08:05 PM
Cars , Cars and more Cars for the car guys Breedlove Other topics 123 04-24-2019 04:39 PM
Self-driving cars for retirees explanade Other topics 27 08-21-2016 01:32 PM
Self-Driving Cars -- Needs of the Many vs Numero Uno easysurfer Other topics 218 08-20-2016 09:50 PM
Are you looking forward to self driving cars? harley Other topics 160 11-20-2015 06:46 AM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:17 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.