ERD50
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Seems the previous threads on this went off the rails, into the weeds, off course, or some other non-clever analogy? And I haven't kept up with what I assume are many, many youtube videos of the latest incarnations of Tesla's Auto-Pilot (or whatever they are calling it now) software.
But a few weeks ago, I spent about two hours as a passenger in a Tesla (about 80% highway driving), the owner said it had all the latest updates (and it had "Ludicrous" mode, so you know this owner didn't skimp on anything). As I previously thought, I am super impressed with what the system can do. At the same time, it was very enlightening to experience quite a few of these routine conditions (for a human driver) that the car just seemed to ignore, or handle poorly. As a few of us have been saying, getting these situations handled is a whole 'nother challenge. Some examples:
Shortly after getting on the expressway, a large chunk of tire from a semi was lying in the road, just about centered between our lane and the adjacent lane. A normal human driver would veer off a little bit if space allowed (it did) - you never know, a gust of wind, or draft from another vehicle might toss that tire chunk right in your path, and it could do considerable damage. It was unnerving to have the Tesla just plow straight ahead and take no action at all.
It had snowed the day before, the roads were clear, but several of the semis had large accumulations of snow on their roofs. Several times, we would be following a truck, and large clumps of snow would blow off the truck into our path. Again, a human driver is thinking "This isn't good, that snow could obstruct my vision for a second or two, or maybe there is a big ice chunk embedded in that snow - I'm gonna get away from that truck". But no, the Tesla just didn't seem to care at all. The driver took over, and slowed down to get some space, and then passed quickly two lanes over when able to do so, to limit our exposure to that snow. Again, very unnerving to be following a truck with stuff falling off the roof, a totally unnatural feeling, your instincts just tell you to take action, get away from that.
At another point, he let the Tesla make a lane change, and it had handled a few of these very well, but this time, all the sudden the Tesla is putting on the brakes fairly hard. As a passenger, I'm saying "What the heck, what's going on??!!", there was plenty of room ahead of us, why the sudden braking? Well, apparently the car ahead of the open spot slowed down, and the Tesla slowed down (pretty aggressively) to match speeds to that open spot. It just felt weird. A human driver would have re-evaluated, maybe sped up to change lanes ahead, or waited for another opening, or dropped back slowly. But the Tesla just seemed to be 'committed' to doing that lane change in that spot, regardless.
The owner mentioned he has had the car slow down to what he felt were dangerously slow speeds on the highway, with concerns of getting rear ended, for no apparent reason at all.
Again, the capabilities were very impressive. And I stand by my earlier assertions that if a confidence in the system leads the driver to be less attentive, I'd expect to see some accidents caused by the car just not knowing how to handle these myriad of situations that humans can figure out. And until/if affordable cars get there, I feel the system needs to keep the driver fully engaged, so it is more like "two sets of eyes are better than one", rather than the car saying "I got this for now", until it doesn't.
It's possible that a self driving system that doesn't handle these cases might on average still be safer than the average driver. But I don't see it as an either/or. Both working together makes the most sense to me.
-ERD50
But a few weeks ago, I spent about two hours as a passenger in a Tesla (about 80% highway driving), the owner said it had all the latest updates (and it had "Ludicrous" mode, so you know this owner didn't skimp on anything). As I previously thought, I am super impressed with what the system can do. At the same time, it was very enlightening to experience quite a few of these routine conditions (for a human driver) that the car just seemed to ignore, or handle poorly. As a few of us have been saying, getting these situations handled is a whole 'nother challenge. Some examples:
Shortly after getting on the expressway, a large chunk of tire from a semi was lying in the road, just about centered between our lane and the adjacent lane. A normal human driver would veer off a little bit if space allowed (it did) - you never know, a gust of wind, or draft from another vehicle might toss that tire chunk right in your path, and it could do considerable damage. It was unnerving to have the Tesla just plow straight ahead and take no action at all.
It had snowed the day before, the roads were clear, but several of the semis had large accumulations of snow on their roofs. Several times, we would be following a truck, and large clumps of snow would blow off the truck into our path. Again, a human driver is thinking "This isn't good, that snow could obstruct my vision for a second or two, or maybe there is a big ice chunk embedded in that snow - I'm gonna get away from that truck". But no, the Tesla just didn't seem to care at all. The driver took over, and slowed down to get some space, and then passed quickly two lanes over when able to do so, to limit our exposure to that snow. Again, very unnerving to be following a truck with stuff falling off the roof, a totally unnatural feeling, your instincts just tell you to take action, get away from that.
At another point, he let the Tesla make a lane change, and it had handled a few of these very well, but this time, all the sudden the Tesla is putting on the brakes fairly hard. As a passenger, I'm saying "What the heck, what's going on??!!", there was plenty of room ahead of us, why the sudden braking? Well, apparently the car ahead of the open spot slowed down, and the Tesla slowed down (pretty aggressively) to match speeds to that open spot. It just felt weird. A human driver would have re-evaluated, maybe sped up to change lanes ahead, or waited for another opening, or dropped back slowly. But the Tesla just seemed to be 'committed' to doing that lane change in that spot, regardless.
The owner mentioned he has had the car slow down to what he felt were dangerously slow speeds on the highway, with concerns of getting rear ended, for no apparent reason at all.
Again, the capabilities were very impressive. And I stand by my earlier assertions that if a confidence in the system leads the driver to be less attentive, I'd expect to see some accidents caused by the car just not knowing how to handle these myriad of situations that humans can figure out. And until/if affordable cars get there, I feel the system needs to keep the driver fully engaged, so it is more like "two sets of eyes are better than one", rather than the car saying "I got this for now", until it doesn't.
It's possible that a self driving system that doesn't handle these cases might on average still be safer than the average driver. But I don't see it as an either/or. Both working together makes the most sense to me.
-ERD50