Mom had a stroke. What do I do now?

[TrophyWife]

My best advice....go slow. No decisions have to be made today. Choose your own family first and her after that. If someone offers to care for or take care of her, let them. You don't need to feel guilty about that.

And in the event of death, one does not need to go to a mortuary. You can have a representative (they are still kind people) from a crematorium pick up the remains. That will save thousands of dollars. I wish we had know this but it all happened so fast. One rarely thinks to look into this before it happens.

 

[Sunset]

Sorry to learn of this happening to you and your mom. I'd definitely talk with an elder law attorney to learn what, if any, obligations you may have and what you can legally do if you want to. Unless she has you named as a power of attorney (highly unlikely given your description) you are probably limited to offering suggestions and advice.

Given your description of her condition it seems likely that eventually someone will be appointed a POA by a judge in court. Do you even want that person to be you? I've dealt with one family health care POA and two estates and even if you have an attorney do the legal work it is still almost a part time job for a while to gather all the needed data, empty the house, sell or auction it and the like. Being two hours away will make it even more of a chore. I lived 20 minutes from my mom's place and we were 35-40 minutes from FIL's. I can't imagine having to do it from two hours away or farther.

You will also need to determine if the state where you live is one that may come after you for her expenses if/when her resources are exhausted. Given the relationship probably not but you'll need to know how to document that.

I think an hour of the attorney's time would be well worth the money just to find out where you stand.

+1

People sometimes think they should "help" but truly underestimate the effort, and the resentment that will be dumped upon them for all their "help".

I wonder if OP gets involved, and the State is a State that can bill OP for unpaid bills, the simple act of being involved would in my non-lawyer mind make her more liable. Since it negates the estrangement of 20 years.

 

[mountainsoft]

I made an appointment to talk with the social services at the rehab center on Thursday. I'll see what information they can provide.

I don't remember who posted the link, but my state (Washington) doesn't appear to be one that I am responsible for the parent. I guess that's a small relief.

I don't know that I could just walk away completely, as much as I might want to. I would like to help her transition to whatever stage of life comes next, but I have no intention of being there to care for her every need the rest of her life. I know she was battling her own demons, but there was never so much as a sorry when I needed her through some really tough times. I don't have any anger or resentment towards her, I just moved on and lived my life without her in it. People with close family connections (like my wife) can't understand that I guess, and it makes me sound cold. It just is what it is. You can't miss what you never had.

I let my aunt know about mom (big mistake). She called last night and practically reamed me a new one with her advice. "Here's what you ARE going to do..." Maybe she means well, but it wasn't what I needed at that time. I'm usually laid back and easy going. She's loud, in your face, don't take crap from no one. Unfortunately, she's the closest thing to family I have. Mom never got along with her, so I wouldn't want my aunt taking charge of the situation either.

 

[ohyes]

You sound like an awesome human.

Please take care of yourself and keep us updated as you feel like it. Sure wish I had good advice to share with you.

Take a vacation sooner than later!

I made an appointment to talk with the social services at the rehab center on Thursday. I'll see what information they can provide.

I don't remember who posted the link, but my state (Washington) doesn't appear to be one that I am responsible for the parent. I guess that's a small relief.

I don't know that I could just walk away completely, as much as I might want to. I would like to help her transition to whatever stage of life comes next, but I have no intention of being there to care for her every need the rest of her life. I know she was battling her own demons, but there was never so much as a sorry when I needed her through some really tough times. I don't have any anger or resentment towards her, I just moved on and lived my life without her in it. People with close family connections (like my wife) can't understand that I guess, and it makes me sound cold. It just is what it is. You can't miss what you never had.

I let my aunt know about mom (big mistake). She called last night and practically reamed me a new one with her advice. "Here's what you ARE going to do..." Maybe she means well, but it wasn't what I needed at that time. I'm usually laid back and easy going. She's loud, in your face, don't take crap from no one. Unfortunately, she's the closest thing to family I have. Mom never got along with her, so I wouldn't want my aunt taking charge of the situation either.

 

[mystang52]

I have no words of wisdom. But DW had a poisonous relationship with her mother. They had a sorta-rapprochement that lasted about 4 years until her mother's death, where they spoke-yelled at each other once every couple of weeks by phone.
I applaud you, OP, for whatever efforts you are doing. But I caution you to not get "sucked in," based on your previous history with your mom. I know it took a major toll, including more than a few lifetime emotional scars, on my DW.

 

[Bamaman]

I made an appointment to talk with the social services at the rehab center on Thursday. . . . . . .

I don't know that I could just walk away completely, as much as I might want to. I would like to help her transition to whatever stage of life comes next, but I have no intention of being there to care for her every need the rest of her life. I know she was battling her own demons, but there was never so much as a sorry when I needed her through some really tough times. I don't have any anger or resentment towards her, I just moved on and lived my life without her in it. People with close family connections (like my wife) can't understand that I guess, and it makes me sound cold. It just is what it is. You can't miss what you never had.

After so many years' estrangement, we understand that the emotional part of this situation may be less than if she'd been in your life. And there's definitely a level of mental illness thrown on top of physical limitations now and probably in the future.

So it's time to make "business decisions" and leave the emotions out. You'll need to get an attorney and get yourself assigned as her guardian--responsible for every financial and medical decision. You'll also need to get on any bank accounts as a caretaker. Remember that the next 6 months are important because there's a good chance another stroke will happen again.

We went through the same thing with my aunt, but she laid in the kitchen floor 5 hours--not 5 days. She had a broken hip, but it was obvious her mental facilities had deteriorated to where she existed on Ramen noodles and tuna fish.

We brought Auntie 2 hours from home and put her into rehab--and eventually into an assisted living where she told everyone her nephews kidnapped her and brought her to this awful place--her home town. Eventually, we had to sell her house and we filled three 40 foot dumpsters--a big, big physical job. Fortunately, she'd been very successful as a day trader in her earlier years and money was no issue.

Your mother's incoming mail over a month or two will furnish statements that will let you know her financial situation. Chances are she's going to end up in a nursing home, and Medicare doesn't last very long there. Depending on her assets, expect a full liquidation of her home and the contents in it will be required. That's a big burden to overcome.

Good luck to you, as we'll say a prayer for you. I hope you're physically able to deal with what you have ahead as cleaning out hoarders' houses and getting them ready for resale is really hard work.

 

[folivier]

Reading through your posts it sounds as if you may be experiencing some guilt over not having contact with your mother all these years. None of us know what happened but in my experience something like this is usually a result of both people contributing to whatever happened. That said this may be your last opportunity to re-connect with your mother. That may help with your guilt going forward when she is gone. Perhaps she has had a mental issue? Are there reasons that you can't forgive? When she is gone you have no more opportunity. Good luck.

 

[omni550]

.... as cleaning out hoarders' houses and getting them ready for resale is really hard work.

A few years ago, my sister and I were dealing with selling our uncle's house filled with 60 years of stuff and his huge 2-story garage filled with all sorts of large metal parts (chains, gears, you name it). He lived 4 hours away, so we had to make good use of our time to get a lot done while we were there. It seemed like it might take forever until we decided to call the 800-got junk people.

We quickly went though the items in the house, looking for anything that looked important (papers, keys, credit cards, passports, I.D.s, albums, meds, etc.). Important items...and ones that 'might be important' were set aside -- in clear plastic bags (for us to haul home and go through slowly, in detail). Everything else as we 'processed it' went into black plastic contractor bags for disposal.

Some of the neighbors who stopped by to see what we were doing were the lucky recipients of the refrigerator, microwave, washer & dryer, wheel barrow, and snow blower. (Less things for us to dispose of.)

Luckily our uncle's machine shop was well-organized and in a separate section of the garage. We sold the entire contents to a neighbor.

His old, non-running car (as I mentioned in another post) was donated to the fire dept. for practice putting out car fires.

I call to the 800-got junk folks had them out the next day. They sent 2 trucks and I forget how many guys to load the trucks. We merely pointed out what needed to be hauled away, and the guys loaded the trucks. What had appeared to be a daunting task that would have taken us weeks and weeks...was done in 2.5 days. Money well spent.

The house was in a popular area. The house and garage were sold 'as is' (broom clean) and sold within 2 months. The new owners spent a ton of money to upgrade the house and turned the huge garage into a man cave with giant TV, etc.

omni

 

[mountainsoft]

Reading through your posts it sounds as if you may be experiencing some guilt over not having contact with your mother all these years. None of us know what happened but in my experience something like this is usually a result of both people contributing to whatever happened. That said this may be your last opportunity to re-connect with your mother. That may help with your guilt going forward when she is gone. Perhaps she has had a mental issue? Are there reasons that you can't forgive? When she is gone you have no more opportunity. Good luck.

Nope, no guilt on my part. I tried several times to call her in the early years, she wouldn't answer. We made the two hour drive over a couple of times, but all the blinds were closed and she wouldn't answer the door. So, I fell back to writing her a letter 2-3 times a year letting her know what was going on in our life, and inviting her to contact us. She never called or wrote back, except for a random birthday card or something every few years.

My parents divorced when I was a baby, and I lived with my grandparents and later my dad and step mom for most of my childhood. I probably only lived with mom 10 years of my life, mostly during my teens. I went to visit mom when I was 11 and she just never sent me back home. Today that would probably be considered abduction, but that was normal back then.

I don't know what her mental state is. She has battled depression most of her life. She has notes to herself all over the house, so we're assuming she was having trouble remembering things.

I did my best to stay in contact, even though it was a one way effort. Whatever happens going forward, I have no regrets or guilt. Better or worse, she's still mom, so I want the best for her.

 

[bmcgonig]

After so many years' estrangement, we understand that the emotional part of this situation may be less than if she'd been in your life. And there's definitely a level of mental illness thrown on top of physical limitations now and probably in the future.

So it's time to make "business decisions" and leave the emotions out. You'll need to get an attorney and get yourself assigned as her guardian--responsible for every financial and medical decision. You'll also need to get on any bank accounts as a caretaker. Remember that the next 6 months are important because there's a good chance another stroke will happen again.

/QUOTE]

Or.. You could not do that.

My advice would be to see the attorney. Ask him what happens if you take a hands off approach. Don't volunteer for guardianship unless you feel that she's going to suffer if you don't. She can probably make her own medical decisions. Then monitor her situation. Assuming she doesn't have much money she'll probably end up in a Medicaid nursing home eventually and unless you want to screw up your own retirement funds, you won't be able to get her to a better place. But you can help around the edges. Like visit and make sure they are taking care of her and raise hell if they are not. Or make sure she has a TV, radio, reading materials etc.

Going the guardian route and doing everything seems like the perfect route, but her situation might not be improved an awful lot by that over a social worker or someone appointed, and it could potentially ruin your own health. Your poor mom has had her stroke, don't let one happen to you.

Best of luck

 

[Texas Proud]

Another thing you want to be careful if you become guardian is that it might be fore MANY years.... I knew someone who had a stroke when younger and lived another 40 years that I know about... still could be living to this day.... he was getting better and I think he was taking care of himself for many years.... only needed a bit of help now and again...

 

[aja8888]

Another thing you want to be careful if you become guardian is that it might be fore MANY years.... I knew someone who had a stroke when younger and lived another 40 years that I know about... still could be living to this day.... he was getting better and I think he was taking care of himself for many years.... only needed a bit of help now and again...

That was my Mom. Had a stroke at 60 and lived until 86, mostly taking care of 75% of her personal needs without help. My sister took care of her in her home all that time as Mom's place was sold (dad passed long before).

 

[Teacher Terry]

BmC: you can be a guardian for health care but not financial one if you do not want to. In regard to your post saying an appointed guardian or SW will do a good job is totally wrong. They could not care less about someone. I worked in that field at one time and can assure you they will not stay on top of bad effects from meds, etc. They won't care if the docs turn your Mom into a zombie and you can not raise a stink at the home unless you are the medical guardian. See my previous post for a better explanation on this matter.

 

[imoldernu]

mountainsoft...
You've touched the hearts of the good people here, to bring out the compassion that we all have for others.

I can't give any advice, but to try to explain how we deal with complicated and difficult situations. I guess you could call it compartmentalization. Whether it's family, or money, or health, or just a piling on of bad things happening, we sit down for a few hours, or even a few days, and spin out all of our feelings... every positive, and every negative... so that there aren't any parts that we've missed. After we're done, we package it up to agree on the way we'll treat the situation. That's it. Time to go forward with a quiet mind. No recriminations and no sleepless nights.

It doesn't mean that nothing will change, just the peace of knowing that whatever happens, it wasn't because we haven't given it our best shot. Maybe everything won't turn our the way we hoped, but no reason for everyone to carry the worry and care, all the time.

Best of luck for a good outcome.

 

[athena53]

My advice would be to see the attorney. Ask him what happens if you take a hands off approach. Don't volunteer for guardianship unless you feel that she's going to suffer if you don't. She can probably make her own medical decisions. Then monitor her situation. Assuming she doesn't have much money she'll probably end up in a Medicaid nursing home eventually and unless you want to screw up your own retirement funds, you won't be able to get her to a better place. But you can help around the edges. Like visit and make sure they are taking care of her and raise hell if they are not. Or make sure she has a TV, radio, reading materials etc.

OP, I agree with this- I suspect that if you take on the legal role of guardian (financial, medical or both) it will be VERY hard to extricate yourself if you find that it's more work/stress than you can handle.

One book I've seen recommended on a few boards when people are dealing with a dysfunctional person who has tremendous needs is called "Boundaries". I haven't read it but you might find it helpful.

 

[Sue J]

mountainsoft,

I've been following this topic and realized you are the same poster whose wife is making twice weekly trips to help her mother with the stoma bag and picking up the responsibilities that her sisters used to carry. http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f27/caring-for-an-elderly-parent-86691.html

So you are dealing with elderly issues for both your mother and MIL. I wish I had some advice or could tell you how to solve this.

I just wanted to let you know that I realized the spot you are in and that those of us who have gone through elder issues understand what you are going through. Tough times on a practical level (distance and logistics) and then emotionally, too.

Good luck getting through all of this. Ask for help, from family or professionals, if you can and accept it if it's available. You can't do everything for everybody.

 

[mamadogmamacat]

Having close family on both sides with mental health issues, I feel for what you are going through. I also know how easy it is to fall back into the same patterns of relationship one had as a child when dealing with very difficult relatives in a crisis even when we are well into adulthood. Hopefully your DW can help you avoid that or perhaps one or more close friends who are not family. They are often the best for advice, other than professionals too of course, in situations like this. definitely avoid that aunt, as I doubt she will have the perspective to be of any help with this. Also, stroke recovery, other than in the very first few hours, which your mother did not get help during so that is nothing one can do anything about now, is very slow and one often plateaus, either for good or for quite some time before progressing further, so really it is good advice to go ahead with that vacation. She will almost certainly be unchanged when you get back.

 

[mountainsoft]

I've been following this topic and realized you are the same poster whose wife is making twice weekly trips to help her mother with the stoma bag and picking up the responsibilities that her sisters used to carry. http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f27/caring-for-an-elderly-parent-86691.html

Yep, that's me, and the thread with my adult daughter living at home. http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f27/adult-children-still-living-at-home-86731.html My life that has become a soap opera.

My wife's Mom finally acknowledged she is quite capable of changing her own stoma bag. So she has been doing it herself when we can't make it, which is really helping right now.

My daughter researched rents in the area, and agreed to pay us $400 rent to live at home. That too will come in handy with the added gas and food expenses we'll have driving to and from my mom's place.

We cancelled our mini-vacation. The rental place wouldn't refund our money with such short notice, but they gave us a voucher we can use in the future. Though honestly, I doubt we'll make use of it, since it's not an area we would usually travel to. There was just a unique event in the area we were hoping to see. Turns out the area is still buried in snow this year, so we couldn't have seen it anyway.

We're meeting with moms rehab center today to see what information we can get from that.

 

[mountainsoft]

Met with the rehab center. Medicare will cover 100% of her stay for 20 days, then it's a fixed amount like $164 per day after that. Medicaid will pay once she has sold her house and spent her assets below $2000. She seems fine with all that, and it takes a big burden off us. We just need to clean out the house and get it ready to sell. It's in a remote area, and the house is in really bad shape, so it may take a long time to sell.

Mom has improved a lot over the last few days. She is regaining usage of her right arm, and is having a lot less difficulty speaking. They've had her up and walking around, but she still can't get out of bed on her own.

Her doctor visited today for the first time since she entered rehab. Unfortunately, the doc says she still has a heart arrhythmia and blood clots in her neck. So she is at high risk for more strokes or heart failure. Not good news, but she signed a do-not-resuscitate order.

Mom seems to be trying to mend ties with family she has cut off the last 20 years. Considering the situation, she seems happy and upbeat.

There's no way to know what the future will hold, but it's nice we have the chance to see her again. And, a lot of weight has been taken off my own shoulders, so I'm sleeping better and haven't been dealing with the headaches. We're busy trying to clean out her house so we can put it up for sale.

 

[mamadogmamacat]

Before putting too much effort into the clean up, you may want to consult a few local RE agencies. The house may in such bad shape it will only sell as a tear down anyway.

 

[mountainsoft]

Before putting too much effort into the clean up, you may want to consult a few local RE agencies. The house may in such bad shape it will only sell as a tear down anyway.

I'm not planning to do any repairs to the house. Selling As-Is. We're just getting the photos, financial documents, furniture, and other personal items she wants to keep. The rest is going to the dump.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

My daughter researched rents in the area, and agreed to pay us $400 rent to live at home. That too will come in handy with the added gas and food expenses we'll have driving to and from my mom's place.

I'm glad to hear things are getting sorted out on all fronts. That is good news on your daughter paying rent.

 

[bmcgonig]

Met with the rehab center. Medicare will cover 100% of her stay for 20 days, then it's a fixed amount like $164 per day after that. Medicaid will pay once she has sold her house and spent her assets below $2000. She seems fine with all that, and it takes a big burden off us. We just need to clean out the house and get it ready to sell. It's in a remote area, and the house is in really bad shape, so it may take a long time to sell.

Mom has improved a lot over the last few days. She is regaining usage of her right arm, and is having a lot less difficulty speaking. They've had her up and walking around, but she still can't get out of bed on her own.

Her doctor visited today for the first time since she entered rehab. Unfortunately, the doc says she still has a heart arrhythmia and blood clots in her neck. So she is at high risk for more strokes or heart failure. Not good news, but she signed a do-not-resuscitate order.

Mom seems to be trying to mend ties with family she has cut off the last 20 years. Considering the situation, she seems happy and upbeat.

There's no way to know what the future will hold, but it's nice we have the chance to see her again. And, a lot of weight has been taken off my own shoulders, so I'm sleeping better and haven't been dealing with the headaches. We're busy trying to clean out her house so we can put it up for sale.

That's sounds like a pretty ok outcome given how awful it could be. Glad that she's mending fences and feeling better. And you too.

I had thought that the house was exempt from Medicaid spend down?

But if not, given that all the money from the house probably goes to Medicaid it might make no difference to you what it sells for, so price it cheap?

 

[mountainsoft]

I had thought that the house was exempt from Medicaid spend down? But if not, given that all the money from the house probably goes to Medicaid it might make no difference to you what it sells for, so price it cheap?

I think the exemption only applies if you're married. They made it clear we would at least need the house up for sale before they would start paying, even if it hadn't sold yet.

As you say, I don't care what the house sells for. She has to go broke anyway, so it really doesn't matter. Just want to sell it quickly, though doing everything from a distance will probably take me longer to set up.

At some point we need to get a storage unit and move all of her big items to storage till we figure out what to do with them.

 

[LOL!]

Two anecdotes:

In order to clean out my deceased MIL's unkempt house, the kids went through and picked up things they wanted like piano and large furniture. Then they staged an advertised "garage sale" which let the masses pick through things and pay small amounts. Then they had a dumpster delivered to the driveway and put everything else in it and had it carted away. The cleaned out house, sold "as is" in a few days.

Recently in my neighborhood, a family from the east bought a house sight unseen that had been foreclosed on. They showed up and the previous owner was still in it. The story I got was he hadn't paid anything in 5 years and was a hoarder. The place was [-]invested[/-] infested with fleas, cats, a huge bee hive in the attic (my wife talked to 3 beekeepers outside the house deciding if they had enough people to take care of the aggressive hive), a backed up sewage pipe, upstairs toilet that had leaked feces and created a collapsed ceiling, a covered swimming pool full of gunk, algae, turtles (size of dinner plates), frogs, and tadpoles, and the other usual hoarder stuff. The new owners got the sheriff to physically remove the squatter and moved everything they could to the driveway where it got picked over and then called a company to have leftovers hauled away. Then the joys of clean-up and renovation could begin.