Moving to the Bay Area?

[JPatrick]

DD is working in the Bay area.* $3225 for condo rent plus $300 to park the car at the condo.* Yes those are monthly fees.* Gas $2.45 a gallon and her gas mileage has been cut in half due to those stinkin hills

[Ol_Rancher]

Cube_Rat, JPatrick,

Kowabunga, I knew the cost of living was high in the S.F. Bay area but that tiny house and tiny yard surrounded tucked into a seemingly crappy looking neighborhood at $650,000 is outrageous.

From my perspective in low cost ruarl Texas, that home might sell for $150,000 - $160,000 and that seems a bit high. I would offer say $140,000.

$300/month to park your car by a condo renting for $3220/month?

That condo would have to be a penthouse suite in downtown Ausin overlooking the state capital with free valet parking.

To live in the San Francisco area is to run the hampster cage wheel until exhaustion. Not my idea of the 'good life'.

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kramer I have no idea what people are talking about waiting for restaurants

I see you never tried to go to Chef Chu's, The Fish Market or Gordon Biersch on a Friday or Saturday night

[Doctordec]

Just curious but how does a new immigrant come up with the dough to move right into SF? Is it a case of wealthy immigrants or 35 people living in one house ?

[Jarhead*]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ol_Rancher Cube_Rat, JPatrick, Kowabunga, I knew the cost of living was high in the S.F. Bay area but that tiny house and tiny yard surrounded tucked into a seemingly crappy looking neighborhood at $650,000 is outrageous. From my perspective in low cost ruarl Texas, that home might sell for $150,000 - $160,000 and that seems a bit high. I would offer say $140,000. $300/month to park your car by a condo renting for $3220/month? That condo would have to be a penthouse suite in downtown Ausin overlooking the state capital with free valet parking. To live in the San Francisco area is to run the hampster cage wheel until exhaustion. Not my idea of the 'good life'.*

Ol Rancher: With the exception of a 4 year tour in the Marine Corps. , I have spent my entire life in Calif.

In the mid 70's, I was in the San Antonio area on business for about two months. Your property values then were less than one half of ours at the time.

About 10 years ago, my youngest daughter, who was single at the time, was transferred to Dallas. My wife and I spent about a month in the Dallas area. Your property values were again less than one half of ours, maybe closer to one third. Six month later she was transferred to Houston. We went down again and spent another month in the Houston area.

My honest opinion is, after spending a considerable amount of time in Texas is that your property is over-priced. 8)

[Brat]

Spanky, talk to a realtor in the community where you might work to get a feel for home prices and 'what you get for the money'.

Then take a look at the schools your child might attend. My SIL teaches at 'tino, search for a recent article about that district and the impact of demographics. Certain schools have very intense academic competition, you really want a school with diversity. In many ways the feeder middle schools are the best way to evaluate the program. Interestingly, watch out for high test results as they may teaching to the test and not be teaching the 'soft' skills, like critical thinking.

[JPatrick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doctordec Just curious but how does a new immigrant come up with the dough to move right into SF? Is it a case of wealthy immigrants or 35 people living in one house ?

Well they have a tidy homeless problem, so maybe it's not 35 people in one house, but 35 people under one bridge.

[REWahoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarhead* My honest opinion is, after spending a considerable amount of time in Texas is that your property is over-priced. 8)

Is this response due to "Rose Bowl remorse" or "will it ever stop raining" depression?

[JPatrick]

If you don't mind, I'm going to forward this to our tax assessor.* He definately thinks we are in California.

[Spanky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveR Abbott near San Jose? (Morgan Hill) I doubt you would get $145,000 from them unless your are in management at a Director level. I have turned down several jobs in the Bay area over the past several years due to the cost of living well there and the crowding. It is no my cup of tea.

SteveR,

It is Abbott Diabetics Center in Alameda, CA. My sister and parents live there.
The pay is only about 15% higher. My borther works for Sun in Colorado. He says that the pay is 15% higher in the Bay Area.

Spanky

[Spanky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brat Spanky, talk to a realtor in the community where you might work to get a feel for home prices and 'what you get for the money'. Then take a look at the schools your child might attend. My SIL teaches at 'tino, search for a recent article about that district and the impact of demographics. Certain schools have very intense academic competition, you really want a school with diversity. In many ways the feeder middle schools are the best way to evaluate the program. Interestingly, watch out for high test results as they may teaching to the test and not be teaching the 'soft' skills, like critical thinking.

Brad,

A comparable house is $900K (2.25x) in Alameda. The Alameda High School (AHS) is not bad. They do offer a one-year AP Calculas class. My daughter is taking the same class now in Minnesota. She is planning to take AP Calculas 3 (for two terms). If we move, she might have to continue her math class at a local college or skip math altogether in 12 grade. As far as diversity, AHS definitely has it.

Spanky

[Spanky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cube_rat Spanky - Is this salary range in line with what you were offered?

No, no offer. I have not even had an interview.

Spanky

[Rustic23]

I was in the Air Force, and as such, lived in numerous places. After retireing from the AF we moved to Texas, after 5 years there moved to S.F. lived in Sausolito for two years and then moved to Alameda. We lived in a townhome near the safeway, and it was one of the neatest places we ever lived. We now are back in Texas. Alameda has great weather and ...... well it has great weather. Your disposable income will go down 20 to 30% maybe more if you move there. Remember uncle sam does not care where you live or what the cost of living is, just how much you make. Lots of places to eat decorated food, very few to get down home cooking. Fast food is hard to find. If there is an event like and air show it will be expensive, and very crowded. Crowded to the extent you won't go again.

I often wondered how folks that worked for me managed. I learned most (home owners) had two incomes sometimes three, and they put all there income in their house. I would hear things like 'it is an investment' I would ask so you are willing to sell it and move to Nevada to live in Retirement? NO! Then how do you plan on getting you money out of this investment?

OK, I guess you get my jest. Loved living there. Thought of it as a vacation, could not afford to retire there.

One day I was lying on my back in a park on a summer day in the Bay Area (in Moraga). I realized that 90% of the time, most of the soft sounds of the world were masked by the sound of jet planes. That is, I'd lie there and a jumbo jet would come over the horizon. Just when it was past, and I was starting to hear the birds and the wind, the next jet would come into view.

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I used to stay in the Biltmore in Santa Clara when I was visiting. Free suite upgrades, the WSJ, a fruit basket and a nice bathrobe you could steal...for $89 a night if you were on their frequent stayer program.

Was about 1/4 mile from the end of the runway for SJC.

You didnt need an alarm clock.

[dylar]

Speaking as someone born and raised in San Francisco, it's terrible here. Don't even think about coming. And don't throw me in the briar patch.

Seriously though, California is set up to soak the newcomers. If you buy a house, your neighbor who has been living there for 2 generations will be paying $250 a year in property tax while you pay $10,000. My parents still rent the house that I grew up in on Russian Hill in San Francisco. Since they've lived there for 30 odd years, SF's lovely rent control laws mean their rent is $575/mo. The neigbors pay $2750 for basically the same thing. The condo, again basically the same, that just sold across the street from them has higher HOA dues than their rent.

It is really expensive but given immigration trends I don't think it will get better any time soon. For fairly understandable reasons, people are willing to pay a huge premium to live in an ethnically similar community. And immigration shows no sign of slowing down.

[LEX]

I lived in SF during the 80's, had nice house in Walnut Creek, and sold it for 275K. I swore I had commited a crime to sell it for that amount, and after closing, actually felt bad for the buyer. I would guess its quadrupled in value since then. Frankly, I was pleased to move when I did (1989). I recall watching TV during the earthquake, and thinking it was God's way of reminding me I had no reason to look back.

I would visit the place and enjoy it, but I will never live there for all the reasons that have been well discussed herein. I like AZ, and find that I am more tuned into my lifestyle without the manic California crowds. I look out my bedroom onto a balcony over my pool with a view of palm trees, desert mountains and open spaces. I doubt if I could afford this lifestyle in California.

SF is for the rich and super rich. If you are a wage slave, no one will be able to make a lateral move as any sensible basis for moving there. You would have to make at least 250K/year to even start to be within a typical middle class lifestyle. Better to save for ER and once you are free from wage slavery you can travel and spend months at a time in truly exotic locales like Costa Rica or Southern France. 8)

[free4now]

As a Bay Area resident for 13 years I would have to echo the sentiments that this place is set up to soak the newcomers. Property taxes are essentially fixed when you buy your place, so I'm paying half the property tax that my neighbors in an identical condo pay.

One thing to consider is renting rather than buying. Especially as a newcomer you would want to rent for a year anyway. But the bay area has one of the lowest ratios of rent to PITI payment of anywhere.

Don't worry too much about the congestion aspect; it's just like any other metro area where there is traffic at rush hour. And I rarely experience issues with crowding in restaurants or stores. Maybe I'm just not hip enough to find the crowded places :-) Crowding and traffic were a serious problem during the late 90's, but since the dotcom bust population and crowding is way down.

I've travelled all over the world and the USA and I think Northern California is probably one of the best places if you are looking for both the outdoors and cultural opportunities. But the price is high and I'm not sure it's worth it.

Kramer made a good point that if you are saving lots of your salary by living simply, it can work out well economically. Consumer goods and food cost generally the same as anywhere else, it's just housing and taxes that drain your paycheck. If you can rent small and avoid trying to keep with the joneses I think a single person can come out ahead here. For someone wanting to raise a family though, you might not be able to save much.

[Spanky]

I agree with all of you that housing is just too expensive. Renting is probably cheaper compared to a mortgage payment, not to mention the possibility of a step decline in real estate pricing. I just do not think it makes any economic sense to move back into the Bay Area despite its moderate climate, diversity and job opportunities. It may be better for my daughters who grown up in the Midwest. I think it is more prudent for me to stay and work 5 more years and then move west for retirement. Possible places are Arizona, Colorado, Oregon and Washington.

P.S. I received an email from a friend who left Minnseota to San Juan Capistrano (between Irvine and San Diego). He said that I had missed the California housing market boom. The house that he paid in 1997 was $400,000 and now it is worth $1.4M. He also stressed that a bust or deep decline will never happen since that may trigger a recession. The governer of California will never let that happen. I think he might living in La La land. Maybe he should read the article in this link: http://patrick.net/housing/crash.html

[mb]

Quote:

Renting is probably cheaper compared to a mortgage payment, not to mention the possibility of a step decline in real estate pricing.

I recently read in the San Jose Mercury News that the cost to buy:cost to rent ratio is twice its historical average in the Santa Clara Valley.

Rents were going down (because all of the 20-somethings left after the dot.com bust) while the cost to buy a house was going up.

Pretty unusual situation.* Wonder if there is a good way to arbitrage it?

MB*