My M-I-L is a BUM! Looking for tax advice (gift tax and giving house away)

[ivinsfan]

Not the OP here, but respectfully, you don't know the OP's MIL at all. I'm confident that OP and DW know MIL/DM well enough to know if the term "bum" is warranted. OP's DW may very well refer to her DM as such, for all any of us know.

Disclaimer: BTDT

We all get colored by our personal experiences don't we? It's kind of like the chicken or the egg question. I don't know any of these people, but I know they are all in a rough spot. Grandpa from a lifetime of caretaking for a troubled daughter, OP and wife wanting to help Grandpa stress less, but not seeming to realize it's not that easy to change life long mental issues in others.

Some people just can't/won't be helped I don't think it makes any difference to the would be helpers why that is the case, it's still almost impossible to make good things happen. But I do know now it the time for OP and his wife to take a good look at what the next 25 years might bring. Don't just think you have to help, take a good look at what trying to help might cost you in both dollars and mental health. It's OK not to perpetuate the cycle that seems to be playing out with the family.

 

[ivinsfan]

It's very nice that you and your DW are helping to take care of your MIL. I'm sure it's a lot of work. Regarding the gifts, your tax issues should be minimal and well below any gift limits. Any accountant should be able to answer your questions very easily.

The bigger issue seems to be you. It's very sad to hear someone call their MIL a 'bum' repeatedly in a post. Especially one who seems to be slightly mentally ill and living on handouts. For her to keep up maintenance on a home by herself seems like a bit of a stretch. I'd bet she's doing the best she can.

Negative labels can hurt you as much as they hurt others. They tend to reinforce your worst thoughts and ultimately reflect more about the labeler than the labelee. Try to open your heart, in addition to your wallet, and show some empathy. Throwing money at a problem is the easy part. She is your wife's mother, and it probably hurts her a lot to see her mom in this condition. I doubt she'd be happy about you calling her a 'bum'. (Just try to imagine if she called your mom a 'bum' in an argument)

Slow down and remember that not everyone is as fortunate as you are. I'm sure you'd be super miserable living in your MILs shoes. You can't change her behavior, you just have to accept it as-is. A little love and kindness will go a long way to make you and your family feel better about the situation.

Have you ever dealt with mentally ill family member? Love and kindness are good but they don't fix much. In fact you can roll up your sleeves, work like a dog, spend piles of your money, stress yourself out and it won't help much either if the ill person is not actively wanting to get better or follow treatment.

No need to be unkind to an ill person but kindness is not a cure. It's kind of like the new social media habit of saying your thoughts and prayers are going to someone whose house got destroyed in a tornado.

 

[OldShooter]

OP: Yes, you need expert advice.

Here is another reason: Whatever actions Grandpa takes in the future can be questioned after his death as stemming from legal incompetence or "undue influence." This includes his practice of giving you his excess money.

Your attorney can attempt to fireproof you against this in various ways that he will know and SGOTI does not. That does not mean that MIL will not find an attorney and sue at some point, but it does reduce the likelihood that she will find a good attorney willing to take the case and reduce the likelihood that she will win.

 

[youbet]

Have you ever dealt with mentally ill family member? Love and kindness are good but they don't fix much. In fact you can roll up your sleeves, work like a dog, spend piles of your money, stress yourself out and it won't help much either if the ill person is not wanting to get better or follow treatment.

No need to be unkind to an ill person but kindness is not a cure. It's kind of like the new social media habit of saying your thoughts and prayers are going to someone whose house got destroyed in a tornado.

Isn't the real question regarding OPs repeated use of the derogatory term "BUM" how he expects the answers to his questions regarding taxes to vary depending on his MIL's "BUM" status? I'm not sure how the rant about MIL adds to answering his questions about taxes. Is "BUM" status something the IRS takes into account?

 

[ivinsfan]

Isn't the real question regarding OPs repeated use of the derogatory term "BUM" how he expects the answers to his questions regarding taxes to vary depending on his MIL's "BUM" status? I'm not sure how the rant about MIL adds to answering his questions about taxes. Is "BUM" status something the IRS takes into account?

That's a good question and not too different from what I'm trying to say. Going into this with the idea that money and a firm hand are going to make things better is naïve on the OP's part. At 70 these behaviors aren't really changeable and the very issue of looking at the behaviors has made the OP start blaming the MIL..

It doesn't matter whose fault it is, it's already baked in the cake.

 

[rmcelwee]

You need to check this before ANYTHING gets given away.

GP wants the house out of his name. His reasoning is that he might get a letter in the mail if she doesn't cut the grass and they find out it is his house. "Then they could sue me!" No amount of explaining over the past 12 months has changed his mind. We have waited 12 months after his wife passed to start this process. Some legal thing I think - I have not been involved.

 

[youbet]

That's a good question and not too different from what I'm trying to say. Going into this with the idea that money and a firm hand are going to make things better is naïve on the OP's part. At 70 these behaviors aren't really changeable and the very issue of looking at the behaviors has made the OP start blaming the MIL..

It doesn't matter whose fault it is, it's already baked in the cake.

Oh well..... Nevermind. I just noticed OP started another thread asking the tax question regarding transfer of the house to his MIL (alias "DA BUM") without the rant in another thread. Answers seem to be more focused there.

I do wonder where OP is headed in all this? We know he is planning for his GFIL to xfer a few kilobux per month to DW/him and he would like his GFIL to pass ownership of a second home to his MIL (where his MIL now resides). I wonder what that accomplishes for GFIL and MIL?

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

GP wants the house out of his name. His reasoning is that he might get a letter in the mail if she doesn't cut the grass and they find out it is his house. "Then they could sue me!" No amount of explaining over the past 12 months has changed his mind. We have waited 12 months after his wife passed to start this process. Some legal thing I think - I have not been involved.

I mean, he's right to be concerned, but trying to do this (or anything) in a panic can easily lead to even worse problems. Luckily for you and your wife, he's probably not going to be able to transfer the house today, tomorrow, or even this week or next. There should be time for you two to do the research for him, if you're so inclined. (And if not, it's on him, not you.)

 

[rmcelwee]

I'd bet she's doing the best she can.

HAHAHA! The disabled and legally blind guy across the street cuts her yard for her because she will not keep up with it. Too busy watching soaps all day. Reading that it sounds like I am making it up but I am not.

 

[gwraigty]

We all get colored by our personal experiences don't we? It's kind of like the chicken or the egg question. I don't know any of these people, but I know they are all in a rough spot. Grandpa from a lifetime of caretaking for a troubled daughter, OP and wife wanting to help Grandpa stress less, but not seeming to realize it's not that easy to change life long mental issues in others.

Some people just can't/won't be helped I don't think it makes any difference to the would be helpers why that is the case, it's still almost impossible to make good things happen. But I do know now it the time for OP and his wife to take a good look at what the next 25 years might bring. Don't just think you have to help, take a good look at what trying to help might cost you in both dollars and mental health. It's OK not to perpetuate the cycle that seems to be playing out with the family.

+1

 

[gwraigty]

GP wants the house out of his name. His reasoning is that he might get a letter in the mail if she doesn't cut the grass and they find out it is his house. "Then they could sue me!" No amount of explaining over the past 12 months has changed his mind. We have waited 12 months after his wife passed to start this process. Some legal thing I think - I have not been involved.

GP is right to be concerned about this. If someone got hurt on the property, including his own daughter - especially if she's mentally ill, he's the one who will be blamed. He could also be cited by the municipality for the deteriorating/unsafe conditions.

 

[rmcelwee]

Oh well..... Nevermind. I just noticed OP started another thread asking the tax question regarding transfer of the house to his MIL (alias "DA BUM") without the rant in another thread. Answers seem to be more focused there.

I do wonder where OP is headed in all this? We know he is planning for his GFIL to xfer a few kilobux per month to DW/him and he would like his GFIL to pass ownership of a second home to his MIL (where his MIL now resides). I wonder what that accomplishes for GFIL and MIL?

The BUM rant was just to show that MIL owns nothing, is dependent on others for everything, and would let the house fall down around her if it were not for me.

I would expect that in 5 years GP will have passed, DW and I will have retired and moved, MIL will have done a reverse mortgage on the house and blew through the equity. At that point we will move her 15 minutes from wherever we are living. She likes being taken care of and knows she is a train wreck so we will probably set her up in a very small and clean home that she cannot mess up too much.

I have more than enough money (and will power) to take care of MIL and really wish GP was not giving us any money. I have a feeling that it will only come back to bite us in the end (MIL being mad, GP thinking he owns us now, etc) but there is nothing I can do at this point. I will let DW do what she wants because she thinks it is her responsibility to do whatever GP wants while he is in the picture.

 

[Starsky]

Have you ever dealt with mentally ill family member? Love and kindness are good but they don't fix much. In fact you can roll up your sleeves, work like a dog, spend piles of your money, stress yourself out and it won't help much either if the ill person is not actively wanting to get better or follow treatment.

No need to be unkind to an ill person but kindness is not a cure. It's kind of like the new social media habit of saying your thoughts and prayers are going to someone whose house got destroyed in a tornado.

I took care of both my parents - including my Mom who died of Alzheimers - and all their affairs for about 10 years, so I'm very familiar with adults who don't follow instructions. All the effort in the world couldn't change anything about my mom's behavior - nor my Dad's, who was just an old angry man. This suggestion is simply from my own years of very hard experiences with both aging and addiction.

I know kindness isn't a cure - it's not supposed to be. In this example, kindness is about acceptance of things as they are, regardless of your opinions about it, not how you wish it were. You can either let it make you crazy because she's not doing what you want, or you can roll with it with some grace. Grace feels a lot better and inspires others around you to feel better too. Anger and frustration have the opposite effect. It will likely have zero effect on the MIL, but the rest of the family will feel less stressed.

P.S. I'm not suggesting not to take any action, just to do it with some empathy instead of anger. (for your own benefit)

 

[Teacher Terry]

Yes MIL is mentally ill and not a bum. Fatigue often accompanies the illness. I worked in this field and a close friend had a MI sister. Yes it’s frustrating but you cannot change the person but only your response.

 

[ivinsfan]

I took care of both my parents - including my Mom who died of Alzheimers - and all their affairs for about 10 years, so I'm very familiar with adults who don't follow instructions. All the effort in the world couldn't change anything about my mom's behavior - nor my Dad's, who was just an old angry man. This suggestion is simply from my own years of very hard experiences with both aging and addiction.

I know kindness isn't a cure - it's not supposed to be. In this example, kindness is about acceptance of things as they are, regardless of your opinions about it, not how you wish it were. You can either let it make you crazy because she's not doing what you want, or you can roll with it with some grace. Grace feels a lot better and inspires others around you to feel better too. Anger and frustration have the opposite effect. It will likely have zero effect on the MIL, but the rest of the family will feel less stressed.

P.S. I'm not suggesting not to take any action, just to do it with some empathy instead of anger. (for your own benefit)

So true and in a caretaker, it can be so difficult. acceptance is hard to come by. And of course we are only human so there will be days when you are angry and upset..the key is don't beat yourself up about those days because they happen to every caregiver. In the OP's case he seemed to indicate he'd have control of the situation, which is not reality. You can control yourself, but not the situation.