Need advice for son re: air force

[gooddog]

The Air Force physical fitness standards are not as high as other branches. If he can do 40 pushups, 40 situps, and run 2 miles in 16 minutes - he will be fine.


The career field to go into in the AF is air traffic control. Can make a 20 year career out of it, or leave the AF and go work for the fed. Current top out for ATC is about 140k/year with the fed. The AF does give some decent bonus $ for that field. The four years in the AF would count towards federal retirement, and ATC's are in the 'safety retirement' system with a mandated retirement age of 54 (last time I checked). The ATC field has the bonus of being able to work anywhere in the country, and quite a few places overseas while getting the the perks that come with the job.



JMO, I could be wrong

[stephenson]

I would point out that medical care is not free after 20 years. It is somewhat subsidized, but definitely not free.

[imnontrad]

29 year vet here.

Each service has their own "personality" and he has to find the one that best suits him. He may have a difficult time adjusting at first because he would be so much older than others in the same paygrade but it is worth it to stick it out. And like any career, he should be proactive to get the most out of it. This can mean training, college credit (or the whole degree), leadership skills, travel/living in other countries.

if later on he decides to leave active duty, even the retirement benefits he could earn in the Reserves/ National Guard cam come in handy. he could get Tricare health insurance, which could help him to become an entrepreneur. And that check that started at age 60 (immediately upon retirement for those on active duty) allowed me to retire early. Plus, I only have to pay Medicare Part B and do not have to worry about co-pay. And now they have the option to invest in the very low cost TSP (401K equivalent) and look forward to retirement pay after 20 years.

The USAF is known for advancing quickly in the enlisted ranks when junior (more pay) but then getting tougher to get promoted later on (E-7/8/9).

Have him talk to the recruiters from all branches (also US Coast Guard and Space Force) to see what he thinks would be a good fit. Each recruiter has quotas (monthly? quarterly?) so if he picks a service but cannot get the career he wants, another recruiter may have a quota for that specialty or he would need to wait a little more for a quota to open up.

Also look at the different career paths. Some are strictly military related and others have civilian equivalents. He would need to look at not only the pay while in but also the current pay range for experience (whether after 4 years or 20/30) later.

But if he saves/invests right, he may not have to work again once he retires. Although no longer owned by the creators, here's two websites with info about that - https://the-military-guide.com and https://themilitarywallet.com

[2177V]

US Army 1972 to 79 with combat duty in the Korean DMZ. Had to sleep in a tent during the monsoon season and not on a dry 6 inch mattress in the Air Force or Navy. Soaking wet all day and all night…and dry toilet tissue was a valuable commodity. Slept naked in my tent and my worst experience is putting my wet clothes back on in the morning. Learned to trust my buddies and take orders without hesitation. This hardship made me successful in civilian life because I took all my work seriously and executed the assignment faster and better than most other people who never experienced similar physical hardships. Any military service will provide discipline and focus in anyone’s life.

[Raygun99]

It will be a different good story from every veteran. I will only relay not promote: I had an aptitude for Electronics. Initially they put me into Ctypto-Maintenance. A 44 week tech school (Repair and Maint of electronic coding/ communication equipment) As luck would have it after 3 years I was offered the opportunity to cross train to Medical Equipment Repair. Another 40+ weeks of training but the BEST investment of my life. Worked in hospital repairing everything from respirators to lab equipment to X-Ray…. I left the Air Force and stepped right into similar jobs at local hospital. 30 years later working that career field has provide my family a great way of life and retirement. As noted in the beginning each person will have their own good story! Try to get the job guarantee if possible but if not you may get to cross train.

[wwoodhou]

Air Force Vet here... make sure you know what you want to get into career-wise after you leave the Air Force. Computer Programming, Cybersecurity, translate well into civilian jobs. Civil Engineering career fields (HVAC, maintenance) are also options. Physical fitness in the Air Force are not as severe as other services. Delay enlistment until your career field has been guaranteed by the recruiter - don't enlist with an open ended career field choices. Unlike other services, one typically would be able to be with your family on assignments and we have better base locations. :-) Contribute as much as possible to your TSP (401k equivalent). Strive to be an Officer (have a degree before joining in) - better pay and better treatment. Becoming an Officer after being in the enlisted ranks is very competitive and difficult. Good luck and thank you for your desire to serve our country.

[BlueAFMom]

Joined the AF in 1990 and retired in 2017--no one in my family was military prior and I had very little exposure. They were looking for my medical specialty and I was looking for entry-level training so I joined as an officer. One thing led to another and I enjoyed a wonderful career, lots of education opportunities and an early retirement.

I agree with all comments about narrowing down career field choices but look broad and beyond just aviation-related fields. Medical fields, for example, offer excellent training and certifications. We could not keep an ultrasound tech after their initial commitment because the opportunities outside were plenty, lucrative, and often more interesting.

There are opportunities to cross-train after entry but they do not always work out so do not let a recruiter try to convince your son to come in now under any open specialty because he "can always cross train." Not true.

Maturity will be on his side and he will have leadership opportunities from basic on which can lead to quicker promotion and greater opportunities. The retirement system has changed and can be very generous but requires members to be more proactive to actively contribute to TSP and take steps to become vested at specific intervals (vs having to stay at least 20 years). He will also qualify for the post 9/11 GI bill after 4 years which provides a huge benefit that can be used by the member or passed to a family member.

If your son has an interest and the discipline to commit at least 4 years, I would recommend it. And, as far as fitness goes, getting ready for basic training by running and doing sit-ups and push-ups, as well as any other conditioning he would enjoy, would be my recommendation. They will get him across the finish line but a head start will give him confidence. The more he can embrace a more active lifestyle, the more he will enjoy his service time. It is true AF has lower fitness demands but passing the fitness test each year is a stressor for some and ends many careers.

Good luck to your son!

[OldShooter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gooddog ... The career field to go into in the AF is air traffic control. Can make a 20 year career out of it, or leave the AF and go work for the fed. Current top out for ATC is about 140k/year with the fed. The AF does give some decent bonus $ for that field. The four years in the AF would count towards federal retirement, and ATC's are in the 'safety retirement' system with a mandated retirement age of 54 (last time I checked). The ATC field has the bonus of being able to work anywhere in the country, and quite a few places overseas while getting the the perks that come with the job. ...

From personal experience flying and spending some time in ATC facilities I can report that controllers are simply amazing. It is not a job for just anyone; the mental skills to keep track of up to 16 airplanes operating in proximity in three dimensions is very special. Here's a little bit I found about the civilian side job pursuit: https://www.indeed.com/career-advice...fic-controller

I think @gooddog is right; ATC would be a great job but understand that not everyone has the specialized mental ability that's needed. I for one, don't, even though I do well on the IQ type tests.

[TrophyHusband]

20+ year recently(?) retired AF Officer. Aviator, commanded at multiple levels, multiple deployments, three combat tours, staff college graduate, multiple overseas tours, and was on the fast track for General.

So, with my credibility established and a successful career behind me you'd think I'd be lining up with all the others recommending your son join. But instead, I'm going to be the one dissenting voice here and recommend that your son DOES NOT join the Air Force.

If you notice, most of the comments from other veterans are from veterans who retired years ago, if not decades. And I would point out that the USAF, and military of that past is essentially gone. The benefits, facilities, opportunities, comradery, esprit de corps and mission focus are absent in the new reality of today's culture. Just turn on the news and you will see the military reeling from one crisis to another. Senior leaders who in times past prided themselves on being apolitical are now either partisan foils or hacks. These missteps at the most senior levels is manifesting itself in bad policy that permeates the service and affects everyone negatively from 4-star to E-1.

The USAF, once the leading edge of technological innovation in the country, is saddled with outdated and poorly maintained equipment. The B-52 first flew in 1951 and the AF plans on flying it until 2040+. Add to this the KC135, T38, F15, MMIII, etc.. And that's just airframes. It doesn't include the other, less known and less public systems and equipment. Dorms have mold, buildings leak, roads and facilities are in disrepair. The peace dividend of the 90's gutted military infrastructure spending and the band-aids and chewing gum fixes of the past 20 years are no longer working.

The things in the past that made the military unique, and therefore attractive to some youth (e.g. service, patriotism, higher calling) are greatly diminished. The USAF and military of today is much more like any other bureaucratic government agency. Think of the US Park Service, but with better weapons.

If he has a family, or plans on having one, add another layer of complexity and reasons not to join. There are a lot of very unhappy wives and families in the military for a reason and any cursory look will show you divorce rates are higher in the military than the general population as a whole. There's a reason for that.

My son is a poster boy for joining the AF. Straight A student, 30+ ACT, fit, heavily involved in school, healthy, and had already started flying in high school. We had recruiters beating down our door trying to get him to go to the service Academies and/or offering 4-yr ROTC scholarships. I certainly didn't prohibit him from entertaining these offers, but I made no effort to facilitate them either. Believe me I breathed a huge sigh of relief when he decided to go pursue scholarship opportunities at a civilian school.

If your son is set on joining the military then the other posts have provided good information. But one piece of advice that I have not see anyone post is to make sure your son's VALUES and life outlook line up with the AF. Unfortunately, that's hard to know until you're in it.

And that is ultimately why I made the decision not to accept the offer of promotion and advancement that was offered me. The military is not what is was and not the organization I joined 20+ years ago. Organizational culture changes, I get it. But I, and your son, have to wake up every morning, look in the mirror and ask, "Am I a member of an organization/company that makes me proud/happy to be a part of it"? I could no no longer do so.

[RetireRay]

Air Force vet here. Spent four years active duty in the mid 1980’s, starting at the age of 19. Tested high on the aptitude tests, and was told they needed young recruits to train and manage new computer systems. I was excited about this. Then, while in basic training, I was told my job would be in air crew life support (fixing flight helmets, putting on life rafts onto planes and then taking them off). A monkey could have done that job. I was screwed and locked into a job for four years. I put money into the college fund, and started college at the age of 23. Graduated with a bachelor degree in business. Retired at age 52 after working in Silicon Valley 25 years or so by saving money and investing in tech stocks.
My advice to your son is that he is too old to start in the air force now. If he insists on signing up, join the Reserves. Active duty is too much of a time commitment for someone his age.

[Lewis Clark]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephenson I would point out that medical care is not free after 20 years. It is somewhat subsidized, but definitely not free.

+1

Navy retiree here.

[Gearhead Jim]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunset I wanted to join to be a fighter pilot because it's sexy and I was stupid. I was refused as I wore glasses... Lucky for me as there are no civilian jobs as a fighter pilot.

During my career flying for United; about 1/3 of the pilots were ex-fighter jocks, 1/3 were transport/bomber people, and 1/3 came from commuter airlines (like me).

Chuck Yeager said something like "The Air Force will give you some really neat airplanes to fly, if you're willing to bleed."

I was willing to take my chances, even tried to get into the Air Guard while flying for United, but didn't have enough college- dropped out when UAL hired me with about 1 1/2 years credit in 1969.

[Bigdawg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lewis Clark +1 Navy retiree here.

Explain "not free". Tri Care prime is $50/month combined for DW and I. The only other expense DW and I have is a small copay when seeing a specialist. Last year DW and I combined had 10 of those visits totalling $300. Most of my civilian friends pay more than that each month just to have insurance. So total medical expenses last year were $900. So yes, technically "not free" but it beats anything else out there.

[FIREarly]

Non-military mind, if your son wants to join the AF than excellent choice. For your piece of mind, other "branches" (if that's the right word), Navy, Army, MC call AF the Chair Force. It's a joke but believe it's because most of their Military Treatment Facilities (MTFs) and bases are in "safe" areas... not as dangerous as the other groups.

Please ask him what he wants to do in the AF. It's an important question and much better to have a plan:
-Unmanned Aircrafts is a new BIG field
-Cyber is BIG and many nice paths in CIV world
-Many options depending on what he likes to do

If he does 20 years in he will be 47 years old and have a nice little monthly check for the rest of his life. Might not be too large but it's a nice little thank you and believe he'll be eligible for federal health insurance plans (after 5 years of service) at retirement age.

[check6]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gearhead Jim During my career flying for United; about 1/3 of the pilots were ex-fighter jocks, 1/3 were transport/bomber people, and 1/3 came from commuter airlines (like me). Chuck Yeager said something like "The Air Force will give you some really neat airplanes to fly, if you're willing to bleed." I was willing to take my chances, even tried to get into the Air Guard while flying for United, but didn't have enough college- dropped out when UAL hired me with about 1 1/2 years credit in 1969.

Member of the 570 club, 5/17/85....did not cross.

[Lewis Clark]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigdawg Explain "not free". Tri Care prime is $50/month combined for DW and I. The only other expense DW and I have is a small copay when seeing a specialist. Last year DW and I combined had 10 of those visits totalling $300. Most of my civilian friends pay more than that each month just to have insurance. So total medical expenses last year were $900. So yes, technically "not free" but it beats anything else out there.

I completely agree it's very good. But as you point out the costs are not zero, so it is not free.

Drugs are also an additional cost. They might be free if you live close enough to a military medical facility to use it - I do not.

[catii]

USAF vet here. Flew F-4s in Vietnam. I was already a graduate engineer, married, with 2 kids, but my draft number was 2, & I chose USAF over Army.

It helped that I had my pilot's license when I turned 16, but I had no desire to be a full-time pilot. I was treated well, & got my MSE & PhD through the military, & I recommend that your son take advantage of every educational opportunity. Others have pointed out that the Air Force treats you better than the other services, & I found that to be true.

I did my job, took orders, flew a lot of missions, & got out after 5 years as an O-3. Haven't really used any veterans services since departing, but I keep getting those offers, even now that I'm 75.

Your son will definitely grow up in the military!

[jastew]

I'll join TrophyHusband in the minority and say no way. I retired as a Naval Flight Officer (guy in back) after 20 yrs in 2006. I was as gung ho and patriotic as they come in 1986 but I think my generation was probably one of the last that had it good.

As TH pointed out, today's military leaders are political hacks more interested in furthering their careers and setting themselves up for a cushy positions when they retire than leading a fighting force and taking care of their people.

To try to remain as apolitical as possible, I won't going into the many hours spent training on the latest social issue instead of training to fight wars.

I'm not ashamed of my time in the Navy and I had a good career, but I no longer tell people I was in the armed forces. It's just not something I would be proud to belong to any more.

[check6]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jastew I'll join TrophyHusband in the minority and say no way. I retired as a Naval Flight Officer (guy in back) after 20 yrs in 2006.

Did you know YouTuber Mooch?

[DrRoy]

10 years ago when my son enlisted in the air force there was a waiting list and it was 9 months before he started basic training. Time there to get fit.