new jersey: thou shalt not kill

[pfpelican]

From the Borowitz Report (parody alert !):

"The state of New Jersey banned capital punishment, arguing that living in New Jersey was bad enough."

 

[Shawn]

... From what I understand, certain mitigating or aggravating factors usually are considered in sentencing. For example, a woman who intentionally kills her husband who had beat her in the past may have mitigating factors in sentencing, even though the murder is technically first degree murder ... I don't think we can draw any conclusions from the raw numbers.

It's very common for people to justify and downplay murder committed by women (as you do above). Your comment about women killing abusive husbands, while quite PC, is not supported by literally hundreds of studies that find equal rates of partner violence among men and women (violence of all types, not specifically homicide). Studies looking at motive typically find that men are slightly more likely to act in self defense against their female partners than are women to act in self defense against their male partners. You can find some studies at DVStats.com Search Engine - tracks research on domestic violence against males. Unfortunately, in practice, the self defense argument is only available to women. A woman can successfully use this argument without evidence or substantiation. In fact, abuse doesn't even need to occur. Mary Winkler received a 2 month sentence for shooting her husband in the back because she claimed, without evidence, that her husband wanted her to dress up in high heals and perform unnatural sex acts. This is not a sellable argument for a man. Women can make excuses. Men cannot. This is one reason for the 10 to 1 disparity.

The Bureau of Justice Statistics performed a study in 1998 where they looked at sentencing disparities between men and women who had killed their partners of opposite sex. The study specifically eliminated cases where self defense was used as a motive. The study found that men who killed their female partners received an average sentence of 17 years. Women who killed their male partners received an average sentence of 7 years. The DOJ reported that they had no explanation for this disparity.

The bottom line is the following. There is a 10 to 1 disparity in death sentences given to men vs women. There is no disparity in death sentences given to whites vs blacks (if anything, whites are more likely to receive the death sentence). Why are people so willing to believe a nonexistent racial disparity but are completely unwilling to believe the enormous gender disparity? It's a rhetorical question, I know the answer. If the racial disparity was 10 to 1 (against blacks), I doubt too many people would argue that "we can't draw conclusions from the data," and then hypothesize that the disparity exists because murders committed by blacks are somehow worse than those committed by whites.

 

[Martha]

It's very common for people to justify and downplay murder committed by women (as you do above). Your comment about women killing abusive husbands, while quite PC, is not supported by literally hundreds of studies that find equal rates of partner violence among men and women (violence of all types, not specifically homicide). Studies looking at motive typically find that men are slightly more likely to act in self defense against their female partners than are women to act in self defense against their male partners. You can find some studies at DVStats.com Search Engine - tracks research on domestic violence against males. Unfortunately, in practice, the self defense argument is only available to women. A woman can successfully use this argument without evidence or substantiation. In fact, abuse doesn't even need to occur. Mary Winkler received a 2 month sentence for shooting her husband in the back because she claimed, without evidence, that her husband wanted her to dress up in high heals and perform unnatural sex acts. This is not a sellable argument for a man. Women can make excuses. Men cannot. This is one reason for the 10 to 1 disparity.

The Bureau of Justice Statistics performed a study in 1998 where they looked at sentencing disparities between men and women who had killed their partners of opposite sex. The study specifically eliminated cases where self defense was used as a motive. The study found that men who killed their female partners received an average sentence of 17 years. Women who killed their male partners received an average sentence of 7 years. The DOJ reported that they had no explanation for this disparity.

The bottom line is the following. There is a 10 to 1 disparity in death sentences given to men vs women. There is no disparity in death sentences given to whites vs blacks (if anything, whites are more likely to receive the death sentence). Why are people so willing to believe a nonexistent racial disparity but are completely unwilling to believe the enormous gender disparity? It's a rhetorical question, I know the answer. If the racial disparity was 10 to 1 (against blacks), I doubt too many people would argue that "we can't draw conclusions from the data," and then hypothesize that the disparity exists because murders committed by blacks are somehow worse than those committed by whites.

Hum. I wasn't trying to be PC and I was drawing no conclusions whatsoever, I just was questioning whether all variables were taken into account. Nothing you have said gives me enough information to draw conclusions.

 

[Shawn]

So, may I conclude on the basis of the statistics you cite that in each of the years from 1977 to 2006, no state in the United States exhibited any racial disparity in handing out the death sentence for murder or executing people for murder? Both Illinois and Maryland previously adopted death penalty moratoria a few years ago, on the grounds that there were some racial disparities in the death penalty in prior years. Were these States statistically misguided in adopting moratoria?

No, you cannot conclude that from my comments. I didn't provide any information about the particulars for any given state. I did provide evidence that as a country (since 1977), there is no racial disparity. If anything, whites are more likely to be given the death penalty. However, I'm puzzled why Illinois and Maryland are so concerned about a supposed racial difference but are completely unmoved by the quite pronounced gender difference. These arguments are much more compelling (at least if one assumes that men and women should be treated equally in the justice system).

My take is that you are against the death penalty. I'm simply trying to provide you with a set of arguments that you can use to better support your position.

 

[dex]

New Jersey a·bol·ish·es the death penalty.

New Jersey bans death penalty - CNN.com

GOD BLESS

"Prosecutors said Timmendequas lured Megan to his home by saying he wanted to show her a puppy. He then raped her, beat her and strangled her with a belt. A day later, he led police to her body."

A puppy; he used a puppy; my God or god! - If we can't get use the death penalty if a human child is killed; how about if a puppy is used to commit a crime.

 

[poboy]

What a touchy feely thing for NJ to do. Will Jesse Timmendequas get to watch cable tv?

 

[Martha]

poboy, this isn't about touchy feelie, it is about executing the wrong people.

Shawn, it is possible that the disproportionate number of men on death row is in part because “More than 80% of the defendants on death row today became death eligible because they killed in the course of a contemporaneous offense, usually an armed robbery or rape.”David Baldus et al., Arbitrariness and Discrimination in theAdministration of the Death Penalty: A Challenge to State Supreme Courts, 15 Stetson L. Rev. 133, 138 (1986). Women are less likely than men to commit armed robbery or rape.

Looking at the research there appears to be any number of potential inequities.

 

[ChrisC]

No, you cannot conclude that from my comments. I didn't provide any information about the particulars for any given state. I did provide evidence that as a country (since 1977), there is no racial disparity. If anything, whites are more likely to be given the death penalty. However, I'm puzzled why Illinois and Maryland are so concerned about a supposed racial difference but are completely unmoved by the quite pronounced gender difference. These arguments are much more compelling (at least if one assumes that men and women should be treated equally in the justice system).

My take is that you are against the death penalty. I'm simply trying to provide you with a set of arguments that you can use to better support your position.

Murder and the death penalty are generally matters consigned to the individual States, so I'm not sure its appropriate to aggregate the collective statistics from each State and come up with a national figure. I don't know whether you're more correct than GAO or others who have seriously studied this issue, but you do give me cause to pause about the appearances of disparities, whether gender or racial.

You know it is obvious why we can tolerate gender disparities in handing on capital punishment: it's the same reason we tolerate gender disparities in military conscription (when we had a draft) and women in combat roles in the military. I think you raising this gender discrimination is a bit tongue-in-cheek since we have never had universal consensus that men and women should be treated equally in all aspects of our society.

 

[Wags]

No, you cannot conclude that from my comments. I didn't provide any information about the particulars for any given state. I did provide evidence that as a country (since 1977), there is no racial disparity. If anything, whites are more likely to be given the death penalty. However, I'm puzzled why Illinois and Maryland are so concerned about a supposed racial difference but are completely unmoved by the quite pronounced gender difference. These arguments are much more compelling (at least if one assumes that men and women should be treated equally in the justice system).

My take is that you are against the death penalty. I'm simply trying to provide you with a set of arguments that you can use to better support your position.

Thank you for the information.

As an opponnet of the death penalty (me), your posts support my position and have been an eye opener for me.

GOD BLESS