Not blurting it out

It is funny how things can slip out. About 6 years before FIRE, we were with some neighbors and one asked "what would it take for you to retire?". I said, well another million would be good. He looked at me and said, "well, that means you already have at least 1 million".:facepalm:yup


The better way to answer questions like that might be "I'm working on my second million. I had to give up on the 1st..."
 
We are definitely under the radar.

I have a fun part-time job with a construction company and neighbors see me in my old muddy Ford truck pulling out of the back gate in my bright yellow safety vest every once in a while. Neighbors and friends have no clue that both wife and I have very healthy pensions, significant investment accounts and a portfolio of rental properties.

Only person who knows our financial condition is our tax accountant. That’s it!
 
FYI, This is not true, at least in the US. Mortgages are a matter of public record. I know someone that looks up whether people have a mortgage, and the amount, all the time. A quick google search will confirm this. This is what I got:

What's often easier to see is the tax records online where at least the current property appraised value for tax purposes is available for all to see.

Cheers.
 
Read my comments between the dotted lines if you want to know how much I care about someone else's NW.
.....................................................................................................





......................................................................................................
 
Read my comments between the dotted lines if you want to know how much I care about someone else's NW.
.....................................................................................................





......................................................................................................


That's very eloquent, Car-Guy. You have a way with words.:cool:
 
This thread started me thinking, about people in my life. Relatives, friends, acquaintances, or whatever...am I really THAT interested in any of them, to want to know the intricacies of their financial details. And, more than just a passing thought, no.

When I was younger, I would have been a bit more interested to compare, I guess, just to make sure I was on the right track. Perhaps get advice on what to right, what not to do wrong. Reassurance, basically.

I have a few younger friends, and I'll admit the thought might pop into my mind occasionally. But more to see that they're getting off to a good start. For instance, I have one friend who just landed a government job about 7-8 months ago. I asked him a few financial details, but mostly just what the retirement plan is like, how much they match, and to encourage him to invest in it at least up to the match, if he's not already.

Turns out they do a full match, up to 5% of his salary. So he's putting in 5%. In my opinion, I think he should do more, to get a good head start, but I just told him that he might want to think about upping his contribution, when he can, to take advantage of the compounding. I also told him that if he wanted any advice on what to invest in, feel free to ask me. But I didn't get pushy about it, and only asked once.

Okay, another one I'm a bit curious about. One of my housemates, who's not all that good with money. His job doesn't offer a 401k, but does something called a SIMPLE, I think? Some years ago, I suggested that he start putting a little bit away for the future. I think he does 10% of his salary, but there is no match. I knew he didn't have the nerve to invest in something more aggressive, like I would, but I can't remember what I suggested he invest in. There's been a couple of times I've suggested we get online and look at it and see how it's doing, but for whatever reason, we get sidetracked and never do. I'm actually curious about it right now, because I'm thinking about it as I type this. But I can guarantee that five minutes after I post this message, short attention-span theater will kick in, and my mind will be on something else!
 
Turns out they do a full match, up to 5% of his salary. So he's putting in 5%. In my opinion, I think he should do more, to get a good head start, but I just told him that he might want to think about upping his contribution, when he can, to take advantage of the compounding. I also told him that if he wanted any advice on what to invest in, feel free to ask me. But I didn't get pushy about it, and only asked once.

Okay, another one I'm a bit curious about. One of my housemates, who's not all that good with money. His job doesn't offer a 401k, but does something called a SIMPLE, I think? Some years ago, I suggested that he start putting a little bit away for the future. I think he does 10% of his salary, but there is no match. I knew he didn't have the nerve to invest in something more aggressive, like I would, but I can't remember what I suggested he invest in. There's been a couple of times I've suggested we get online and look at it and see how it's doing, but for whatever reason, we get sidetracked and never do. I'm actually curious about it right now, because I'm thinking about it as I type this. But I can guarantee that five minutes after I post this message, short attention-span theater will kick in, and my mind will be on something else!

Back in my management days, I often implored my lower paid employees to try saving even a small amount. I got one employee to do so, and when her saving topped $100, she thanked me because she had never accumulated that much money. I also succeeded with a married higher paid employee that didn't contribute to her 401K because her husband had savings. She, too, thanked me a short while later. Those 2 were my only "victories," far outweighed by the many who ignored me!


ETA: I also came to the conclusion, somewhat early on, to stop giving unsolicited advice.
 
Back in my management days, I often implored my lower paid employees to try saving even a small amount. I got one employee to do so, and when her saving topped $100, she thanked me because she had never accumulated that much money. I also succeeded with a married higher paid employee that didn't contribute to her 401K because her husband had savings. She, too, thanked me a short while later. Those 2 were my only "victories," far outweighed by the many who ignored me!


ETA: I also came to the conclusion, somewhat early on, to stop giving unsolicited advice.

I remember when my friend with the gov't job got his first paycheck (well probably a direct deposit) he was so excited, because he said he never got so much money all at once in his lifetime. I think it was around $1500 take-home. I will admit, I did give him a bit of unsolicited advice then, based on my own experience. I told him that while that's a decent amount of money, he should probably try to stay at his parents' home awhile longer, and save up before moving out on his own, because everything out there in the real world is going to be a lot more expensive than he's probably expecting. That, in the "real world", in our area at least, any apartment is probably going to cost at least $1500/mo, plus utilities, so that he should pretend that first paycheck is going to housing, as well as part of the second, and whatever's left is what's going to have to last him for the month. Still, whatever he ends up doing, I'm not going to criticize him.

Back when I landed a full-time job, and still had a second job in the evenings, I thought I had it made. I got hired full-time in February 1994, and closed on a condo in December of '94. According to my SS statement, my earnings in 1994 were about $23,000, but using their inflation index, that's like $62K today. The condo was $84K. I put 5% down. Mortgage was a 30 year fixed, at 9.625%. Between the mortgage, which had mortgage insurance tacked on, and the condo fee, the place was about $920/mo. Plus electric, phone, cable tv. Water/sewer was included in the condo fee. Electric ran about double what I thought it would. It was definitely a struggle for me, at the time and looking back, sometimes I do wish I'd stayed at home a bit longer.

Putting that same SS multiplier against my mortgage+condo fee, that $920 comes out to around $2470 today. OUCH!! No wonder it was such a strain at the time. That's about what my mortgage was when I refinanced $468,000 back in 2020. Although it's up to around $2750 now, thanks to increased property tax/insurance. But it's weird to think that in real dollars, I'm not paying much more now, at 53, than I was at 24.
 
One thought on telling family: I know everyone is different. I have a drug-addicted cousin whose mother is in Assisted Living who's already sniffing around hoping the house will go up for sale soon and he can cash in. His sister, who's far more sensible, told me that Mom kept track of every dime she spent propping him up over the years and her will leaves him an amount that's a small % of her estate but an amount big enough that he'll take the money and run rather than contest the will.

In my case.. DS and DDIL are wonderful with money asked me for $$ only once when they were buying a bigger house (and offered to make it a loan, but I just wrote them a check- modest $$ involved). I DID tell them my bottom line once and have let them know along the way that my investments are still up over what they were 10 years ago when I retired (average 2.5%/year increase after withdrawals). They don't care about an inheritance but I want them to know that I'm not going to spend it all, only to show up on their doorstep when I run out of money and ask to move into their spare bedroom. They'd take me in, God bless 'em, but my top priority is not outliving my savings.
 
We have multiple 7 figures, and have not divulged that to anyone, even our adult sons. However, we drive a 2 yr old Toyota Highlander Hybrid, as that is the vehicle that fit our needs. Anyone that visits the house knows we have remodeled it extensively. We travel a lot, and it does come up. People likely figure out that we are in pretty good shape financially, but maybe not how much so.
 
Back in my management days, I often implored my lower paid employees to try saving even a small amount. I got one employee to do so, and when her saving topped $100, she thanked me because she had never accumulated that much money. I also succeeded with a married higher paid employee that didn't contribute to her 401K because her husband had savings. She, too, thanked me a short while later. Those 2 were my only "victories," far outweighed by the many who ignored me!
....

At one job, the boss/owner thanked me for maxing out my 401K each year as it raised the average contribution per employee.

I always encouraged fellow employees to contribute, especially as there was a small matching , it was FREE MONEY.
 
What do you feel if you find that your neighbor has more money than you thought that he has?

Normal. I have got some seriously well-heeled neighbors, as in 8-9 digits not uncommon. I’m more likely to be the underestimated lurker, as in “Jolly ho good fellow you appear to be in the wrong place, perhaps you lost your way, let me point you to the road out of town…”
 
Normal. I have got some seriously well-heeled neighbors, as in 8-9 digits not uncommon. I’m more likely to be the underestimated lurker, as in “Jolly ho good fellow you appear to be in the wrong place, perhaps you lost your way, let me point you to the road out of town…”
I say, would you have any Grey Poupon?
 
We give no hints as to what we've saved and what he earn each month in retirement. Even a modest NW and earnings, well below what most post on this forum, can still make you a target.

Thankfully, within our new neighborhood (2018-2020 house builds), no one makes any attempt to find out what others are worth, including several couples who have retired to the area.
 
I've mentioned a direct report - my age and about same years at Megacorp - who retired before I did. He was always the one who ragged on me about my being "rich" because I was his "boss" and also my DW had a small business. Had this been once or twice, I wouldn't have made much of it, but it was quite often that he brought up the subject. Much as I could, I ignored it.

When he retired, he gave me "both barrels." His resentments of my "success" boiled over, but now he was getting "even" because "he could retire and I couldn't." I just listened as he described how he'd found this great broker who was going to write covered calls for him and he could take 8% of his stash to live on besides his meager pension (and later SS.)

I wished him well. He might not have thought so, but it was heart felt.

FF two years or so and the guy was broke. This was all during the 2000 tech bubble bursting. Timing is everything and his timing was unfortunate - especially given his "iffy" retirement strategy. Bottom line, he had to begin repositioning cars to make enough to just pay his bills.

I never once shared my situation except to suggest he maximize his 401(k) and open Roth IRAs. Had he done that, he probably would have been fine, but he always knew a "better way."
 
When he retired, he gave me "both barrels." His resentments of my "success" boiled over, but now he was getting "even" because "he could retire and I couldn't." I just listened as he described how he'd found this great broker who was going to write covered calls for him and he could take 8% of his stash to live on besides his meager pension (and later SS.)

I wished him well. He might not have thought so, but it was heart felt.

FF two years or so and the guy was broke. This was all during the 2000 tech bubble bursting. Timing is everything and his timing was unfortunate - especially given his "iffy" retirement strategy. Bottom line, he had to begin repositioning cars to make enough to just pay his bills.

I sometimes have a fantasy about going off on them at work right before I retire, but I know how karma can sometimes bite you on the butt. So, I'll try to go out with some degree of grace, and keep that little fantasy just that. A fantasy. :D
 
I never once shared my situation except to suggest he maximize his 401(k) and open Roth IRAs. Had he done that, he probably would have been fine, but he always knew a "better way."

I wonder if he has transferred his resentment to his broker. Unfortunately some people can only learn by experience.
 
Normal. I have got some seriously well-heeled neighbors, as in 8-9 digits not uncommon. I’m more likely to be the underestimated lurker, as in “Jolly ho good fellow you appear to be in the wrong place, perhaps you lost your way, let me point you to the road out of town…”
So, like, how do you know how well heeled those neighbors are?
Do you do their tax returns and happen to notice that they have over a million dollars coming in each year in qualified dividends?
 
I wonder if he has transferred his resentment to his broker. Unfortunately some people can only learn by experience.


IIRC, he and a co-w*rker (once my direct report as well) went through arbitration and got SOME money back from the brokerage firm. I'd never heard of that before, but apparently there was quite a paper-trail. I never got the details, but I hope he (they) got more than a token.

Like I said, I'd never heard of such recovery before (or since) so I assume the whole "sales j*b" must have been truly egregious. Most brokerage firms are smart enough to cover their backsides. Apparently, this one wasn't.

To this day, I see this guy occasionally (maybe every other year or so) and we are cordial if not close.
 
I sometimes have a fantasy about going off on them at work right before I retire, but I know how karma can sometimes bite you on the butt. So, I'll try to go out with some degree of grace, and keep that little fantasy just that. A fantasy. :D


You know, it never occurred to me to "unload" on anyone when I left. I wasn't mad, I just didn't want to do a j*b I'd done 30 years before.

I've told the story a dozen times that Megacorp (so, realistically, probably 3 levels above me) decided I was too happy in my w*rk. I was informed that my assignment would be changed to pure drudgery. I informed back that "No, I'm retiring on Friday - this week."

That was enough of a fantasy-come-true for me. I left on good terms. My Division Director even came to my office and gave me a hug when I told her why I was leaving.
 
To this day, I see this guy occasionally (maybe every other year or so) and we are cordial if not close.

It's good to be cordial but I suspect that he still resents folks who are doing well. Although people can change their worldview I don't think it happens much.
 
So, like, how do you know how well heeled those neighbors are?
Do you do their tax returns and happen to notice that they have over a million dollars coming in each year in qualified dividends?

I don't know with precision, but when you're talking big money gets kinda hard to hide the fact that you paid millions for an estate or a yacht or a Ferrari collection, that sorta thing. Plus some of these folks are outright famous and semi-famous, so yeh, income gets gossiped about in the media (not that that is reliable but gives you some idea). And then we have the old money types - those families are pretty well known (again not 100% reliable but whatever). Something is supporting the lifestyles of the rich, famous and well-heeled.

P.S. Oh, and forgot about some of my fellow landlord pals - they own multiple buildings in a VHCOL city, not difficult to guesstimate when you know their property portfolio.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom