Oil Changes

[ExFlyBoy5]

also, look up "mobil 1 Subaru spun rod bearing"


mobil 1 has also killed a lot of turbo scoobs

Reading through some search results (with and without Mobil 1 in the terms), it doesn't appear as though OIL it the reason for these failures. Several folks have complained about it when they used Amsoil (arguably one of the top oil manufacturers) and some are with some VERY low mileage cars.

And overwhelmingly, I see a trend with these cars..."It just happens on modified, beaten on, and abused cars". Well, duh.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

I am a little curious now. When I had my plane, I sent oil off fairly often to be analyzed. Looking at "Bob the Oil Guy" website, there is a kit available for cars as well. The analysis is $28, so I think when I get my oil changed in my 90K mile Infiniti (it will have about 94K miles on it then) I am going to send in a sample. I am curious to see what it shows...I tend to think it will show not very much wear.

 

[GrayHare]

I think a statement like that needs some back up! Is there data to say that exceeding the manufacturer's schedule will actually reduce wear?

If oil breakdown or contaminants lubricated at least as well as fresh oil, the oil would not need regular changing. Since that is not the case, old/used oil causes more engine wear than clean oil. How soon (how many miles or hours of operation) the difference in engine operation due to such wear becomes measureable is a valid question though.

 

[38Chevy454]

I just do every 5K because it is easy to remember in my daily driver type cars. I tend to use synthetic blend or full synthetic if I find a deal. Always change my own oil and filter, gives me a good chance to look things over. Yes the 5K might be slight overkill, but oil is cheap.

Imoldernu, you can mix synthetic with dino without any problems. In fact most "synthetic" oil sold is actually dino based. It is just more refined and maybe slight changes to the additive package. Real lab-based synthetic oils are much higher cost. Some engines (some Toyota and Dodge as examples) do have sludging problems and synthetic oil will minimize this.

Now, how many of you ever think or actually do change your auto trans fluid? I do, every 30K I do a drain and refill. No filter change, the auto trans filter is not always accessible on some vehicles. There is no such thing as lifetime trans fluid fill, in spite of what mfrs may claim. By doing the drain and refill, I change out maybe 30-50% of the old fluid and my trans fluid is always nice and clean red color without burnt smell.

 

[aja8888]

I am a little curious now. When I had my plane, I sent oil off fairly often to be analyzed. Looking at "Bob the Oil Guy" website, there is a kit available for cars as well. The analysis is $28, so I think when I get my oil changed in my 90K mile Infiniti (it will have about 94K miles on it then) I am going to send in a sample. I am curious to see what it shows...I tend to think it will show not very much wear.

I use Blackstone Labs in Indiana. They will send you a kit.


Blackstone Labs

 

[ERD50]

My '96 SLS manual doesn't address synthetic oil. Up until that time, Synthetics were used mostly in race cars, BMW's, Porche's and like that. I don't think it became common for US passenger cars until a little later, but maybe I'm wrong...

But what does the manual say regarding regular oil changes? From there, you could get opinions (or ask the mfg, who may or may not advise past the manual), on if it makes sense to stretch that with synthetic.

If oil breakdown or contaminants lubricated at least as well as fresh oil, the oil would not need regular changing. Since that is not the case, old/used oil causes more engine wear than clean oil. How soon (how many miles or hours of operation) the difference in engine operation due to such wear becomes measureable is a valid question though.

That's my point. Is there a meaningful difference in engine life with more frequent than recommended oil changes? If the mfg says change at 6,000 miles, I doubt changing at 3,000 doubles engine life, or changing at 600 miles makes it last 10x longer, for example. It's clearly not linear, so where is the 'knee'? Maybe 6,000 is before the knee, and changing at 5,000 is really a very tiny difference?

If I were planning to keep a car for 120,000 miles or more (I keep my cars a long time, but they are still pretty low miles), I might get in the habit of going just a little early, just to provide a buffer if it was inconvenient, or to get in the habit of not going past the recommended mile mark. It just seems very few cars actually suffer from engine wear out problems that could be attributed to lubrication these days, rather than eventual break-downs, and non-engine problems. But no, I don't have data, just my observation - but it would be interesting if any is out there.

-ERD50

 

[ERD50]

I use Blackstone Labs in Indiana. They will send you a kit.

Blackstone Labs

I know someone with a small fleet of diesel trucks and the oil capacity is something huge, many gallons, so an oil change is big $$$. He uses a lab to help determine when to change, and he says it's always good even after the recommended interval, but I don't think he pushes it too far out. He tests more to make sure nothing is going wrong at that point (I think it will detect metal from a bearing, or maybe dilution from rings/valves going bad?). These trucks have a lot of stop/go, long idle times too.

-ERD50

 

[aja8888]

I know someone with a small fleet of diesel trucks and the oil capacity is something huge, many gallons, so an oil change is big $$$. He uses a lab to help determine when to change, and he says it's always good even after the recommended interval, but I don't think he pushes it too far out. He tests more to make sure nothing is going wrong at that point (I think it will detect metal from a bearing, or maybe dilution from rings/valves going bad?). These trucks have a lot of stop/go, long idle times too.

-ERD50

The analysis looks at all the engine metals (aluminum, iron, zinc, magnesium, etc) to see if the oil is picking up high concentrations or reducing the additive metals in the oil, like zinc. Other parameters are measured including certain chemical properties, pH, viscosity, etc. The biggie is TBN which is the "additive package" in the oil. Once that's depleted, the oil doesn't work very well anymore.

 

[Big_Hitter]

anyone else running a magnetic drain plug?

 

[aja8888]

Blackstone labs

For those interested, here's an old analysis I did on a diesel Passat 7 years ago. I was interested in metals rates of decline after I did some major engine work (click on the attachment to make it bigger):

 

[Bamaman]

I only use Mobil 1 on my truck. That oil is bad for turbo scoobs.

I'm a follower of the #1 place online to talk about motor oils and lubrication: BobIsTheOilGuy.com. I can read for hours on there.

Note that there are two Mobil 1's--Regular Mobile 1 and Mobil 1 EP which is a far superior product.

Although Mobil 1 EP is not rated for marine use, it's a far superior lubrication to anything Mercury or Yamaha sells for their engines. And I run it in my boats.

I was at a big national auto parts store last night buying oil for one vehicle, and they're really, really expensive on oils and especially oil filters. I'll be going to Walmart tonight to get oil for the boat as they're much more reasonable in price and carry great brands.

 

[Gumby]

My daily driver is a 2008 Honda Civic Hybrid. I change the oil whenever the monitor says it is time, which is about 9000 miles. I do it myself and always use Mobil 1 0W-20 full synthetic. Since it has 221,600 miles on it now, that means I've changed the oil 24 times so far. Got another one due in about 3 weeks.

I also have a magnetic drain plug.

 

[NW-Bound]

.. It just seems very few cars actually suffer from engine wear out problems that could be attributed to lubrication these days, rather than eventual break-downs, and non-engine problems. But no, I don't have data, just my observation - but it would be interesting if any is out there.

That is my observation as well. Unless one abuses his car, most modern cars can get to 150K-200K miles without major engine problems.

Usually, people sell their cars when they do not want to spend money to fix a myriad of things that start to wear out, but not having anything to do with the engine. And also, the paint is fading, the leather seats are cracked, the doors rattle, etc...

 

[Car-Guy]

anyone else running a magnetic drain plug?

yes

 

[Car-Guy]

I just do every 5K because it is easy to remember in my daily driver type cars. I tend to use synthetic blend or full synthetic if I find a deal. Always change my own oil and filter, gives me a good chance to look things over. Yes the 5K might be slight overkill, but oil is cheap.

Sounds familiar. Must be a thing with car guys.

 

[Gumby]

Now, how many of you ever think or actually do change your auto trans fluid? I do, every 30K I do a drain and refill. No filter change, the auto trans filter is not always accessible on some vehicles. There is no such thing as lifetime trans fluid fill, in spite of what mfrs may claim. By doing the drain and refill, I change out maybe 30-50% of the old fluid and my trans fluid is always nice and clean red color without burnt smell.

Same routine here -- drain and refill the CVT fluid every 30k miles (because that's when the monitor says I should).

 

[Ronstar]

I have an auto service shop change my oil. 2001 corvette once a year or around every 7500 miles. Mobil 1.
2009 F-150 about every 5000 miles.


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[akck]

Another question... If the last oil change was synthetic oil, is there a problem with adding a quart of non synthetic, when it's called for?
Have a case of regular oil, so it's not just a single $5 item.

I've done it with no ill effects that I know of. Years ago, I remember seeing synthetic/regular oil blends being sold. It's probably why I've mixed it in the past. Now, I just use synthetic.

In one car, I last put in synthetic rated for 15,000 miles. My problem is I'm not sure if it was 10,000 or15,000 miles ago. I'll have to check the viscosity to see how it's holding up. My youngest, who is in graduate school, finally took his car in after us hounding him for 1-1/2 years. When he finally took it in, they told him not to bother as the oil looked clean (he doesn't put many miles on it).


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[ERD50]

Related, but a little to the side - what about changing brake fluid?

Some car manuals seem to be silent on this, I've seen others recc every 3 years (flush and change). My Uncle was an airline mechanic, he insisted on doing it, and I've heard that from other respected mechanics. Seems the recc is based on time, not miles - the brake fluid absorbs moisture, that can lead to corrosion. As your brakes get hot, the water can turn to steam, which is compressible, making your brakes near useless. The whole principle of hydraulic brakes is that fluids are not compressible, add in a compressible gas like steam, and your brake pedal just mushes down to the floor.

I think I've forgotten to ask if my shop does a brake fluid flush as part of a brake pad/rotor change. I hope so. Maybe some car manuals feel that is good enough?

Engines can be rebuilt, a human body rebuild due to brake failure can be a lot tougher.

-ERD50

 

[Big_Hitter]

I need to check the svc manual but I think brake fluid is part of the 60K service. I usually go ahead and put in stainless steel brake lines when I flush the fluid.

 

[Big_Hitter]

Oh, stupid TMPS sensor came on today just after I put on my summer wheels.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Related, but a little to the side - what about changing brake fluid?

Some car manuals seem to be silent on this, I've seen others recc every 3 years (flush and change). My Uncle was an airline mechanic, he insisted on doing it, and I've heard that from other respected mechanics. Seems the recc is based on time, not miles - the brake fluid absorbs moisture, that can lead to corrosion. As your brakes get hot, the water can turn to steam, which is compressible, making your brakes near useless. The whole principle of hydraulic brakes is that fluids are not compressible, add in a compressible gas like steam, and your brake pedal just mushes down to the floor.

I think I've forgotten to ask if my shop does a brake fluid flush as part of a brake pad/rotor change. I hope so. Maybe some car manuals feel that is good enough?

Engines can be rebuilt, a human body rebuild due to brake failure can be a lot tougher.

-ERD50

I have heard this from quite a few people too...usually the service writer at the dealership. I have a very good friend who is the fleet manager for a fairly large municipal department (population of 60,000) and oversees the maintenance for police cars, utility trucks, fire trucks, pick up trucks, you name it. He doesn't recommend it...he says it's pretty pointless since the system is closed. He has several cars that well over 35 years old and he's never changed the brake fluid...and as far as I know he's never had any issues.

The longest I kept a car was about 15 years...200K'ish miles on it when I got rid of it. I never changed the brake fluid and never had any brake issues. As a matter of fact, in the 200K miles, I only had to change the pads ONCE!

Oh yeah...I have owned an airplane and was once an AF airplane mechanic. We never "changed" the brake fluid (hydraulic fluid that was also used for flight controls, steering, etc.) nor did I ever change it on my airplane. It wasn't recommended in the service manual nor was it ever even suggested by my inspector. Airplane maintenance schedules are one of the MOST detailed (sometimes to overkill), so if contaminated brake fluid was ever an issue, you would know about it. And as far as I know, there isn't a single airplane made that recommends changing brake fluid.

 

[ERD50]

I have heard this from quite a few people too...usually the service writer at the dealership. I have a very good friend who is the fleet manager for a fairly large municipal department (population of 60,000) and oversees the maintenance for police cars, utility trucks, fire trucks, pick up trucks, you name it. He doesn't recommend it...he says it's pretty pointless since the system is closed. He has several cars that well over 35 years old and he's never changed the brake fluid...and as far as I know he's never had any issues.

The longest I kept a car was about 15 years...200K'ish miles on it when I got rid of it. I never changed to brake fluid and never had any brake issues. As a matter of fact, in the 200K miles, I only had to change the pads ONCE!

Interesting - this is one of those things that I thought was not part of the dealership just fishing for revenue scheme, but a legitimate thing. But your experience (data point of one or two though) says maybe it isn't important?

My understanding about the 'closed system' - there are still seals, and water/humidity can work its way in? Could be unfounded, or so minimal as to not matter. I don't know.

Does 'Bob-the-oil-guy' have a cousin? We need a "Betty-the-brake-girl" resource (I hope the females appreciate my gender stereotype tear down there!).

-ERD50

 

[Big_Hitter]

Don't forget tranny/gear oil.....

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Interesting - this is one of those things that I thought was not part of the dealership just fishing for revenue scheme, but a legitimate thing. But your experience (data point of one or two though) says maybe it isn't important?

My understanding about the 'closed system' - there are still seals, and water/humidity can work its way in? Could be unfounded, or so minimal as to not matter. I don't know.

Does 'Bob-the-oil-guy' have a cousin? We need a "Betty-the-brake-girl" resource (I hope the females appreciate my gender stereotype tear down there!).

-ERD50

I think it's like many things in life...the opinions are wide and varied. So...I would just do what you think is right for you. I personally don't see the point in changing the fluid, but that doesn't necessarily make me right...but I am comfortable in my decision.

As far as tranny fluid, if the manufacturer recommends it, I will have it done. If it's a sealed system, I leave it alone. My Infiniti (with 90K miles) has never been serviced and I haven't had any issues. The last vehicle I had that did recommend changing it had a complete transmission failure within 1,000 miles of the last service (a Ford F-150 with 60K on it). Thankfully, it was covered under warranty, otherwise, I would have been out several thousand dollars. The opinions on tranny fluid I think are as varied as they are for the brake fluid change!

Perhaps if I get bored, I will do a little research on www.truedelta.com to see what the transmission failure rate is on some models with sealed transmissions vs. serviced transmissions. But...I am rarely bored...so that probably won't happen.