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10-06-2008, 01:40 PM
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#1
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,020
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On the annuity front
Allianz SE invested $2.5 billion in The Hartford:
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/hartford-announces-25-billion-investment/story.aspx?guid={214F5C31-E194-41E4-A9AD-F70434E946C6}&dist=hppr
It's a financial investment, but I wonder if there will be a push towards a merger down the road (just speculation, but there's significant overlap between Hartford and Allianz Life and Fireman's Fund [Allianz SE's respective annuity and P&C businesses in the US]).
Aviva (parent company to Aviva USA, the top EIA seller in 2008) just took a 30% hit to their capital surplus:
Market crash rocks insurance giant Aviva - Times Online
From that same article, AIG is exiting the UK life insurance market.
Combined with the deals going on in the financial institution space, something tells me that we'll most likely look back on this period as a time of great power and wealth consolidation at the top.
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10-06-2008, 04:31 PM
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#2
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marquette
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So what did they get wrong? Did they not hedge the EIA equity market exposure, or did they have a lot of their assets invested in equities (like the last time around with UK insurers)?
I tell you, the names change, but the same stupid moves get made by these guys in every up/down market cycle.
__________________
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
- George Orwell
Ezekiel 23:20
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10-06-2008, 07:50 PM
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#3
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,708
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__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
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10-06-2008, 07:54 PM
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#4
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,020
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cute fuzzy bunny
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Yes, that'd be why they withdrew their bid for naming rights to that stadium.... apparently we don't like our American sports teams to play in placed named after pro-Nazi companies.
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10-07-2008, 12:06 AM
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#5
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,733
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IIRC, in part of the never ending Annuity wars discussion, there was a reference to an academic paper, where professor showed that the insurance companies were significantly underpricing EIA with a guarantee minimum return typically in the 3%+ range
Given the insurance companies latest disasters with investment, the drop of safe investment rates to just barely over the 3% range, and the market tanking etc, I wonder how the insurance companies will be able to pay the claims?
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10-07-2008, 08:40 AM
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#6
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,032
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marquette
Yes, that'd be why they withdrew their bid for naming rights to that stadium.... apparently we don't like our American sports teams to play in placed named after pro-Nazi companies.
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That's reaching a little bit don't you think?
Please name for me a couple large German companies who operated from 1930 - 1945 without contributing anything to, or doing anything for the existing government?
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10-07-2008, 08:52 AM
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#7
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,708
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It was enough of a reach for the jets and giants to reject Allianz's bid to buy their new stadium naming rights.
I think the issue at hand is how aggressively Allianz helped the nazi regime and how complicit their company officers were. They regularly toured the death camps (which they insured) and assured that life insurance policies paid for by people killed in the concentration camps were paid to the nazi's and not to the victims families.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
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10-07-2008, 09:09 AM
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#8
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,020
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saluki9
That's reaching a little bit don't you think?
Please name for me a couple large German companies who operated from 1930 - 1945 without contributing anything to, or doing anything for the existing government?
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Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that they're pro-Nazi now.
But, as a counterpoint, can you name other companies with leadership that was as closely aligned as, say, Kurt Schmitt, chairman of the board for Allianz until 1933 and on the supervisory board until 1945?
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10-08-2008, 09:12 AM
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#9
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,032
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marquette
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that they're pro-Nazi now.
But, as a counterpoint, can you name other companies with leadership that was as closely aligned as, say, Kurt Schmitt, chairman of the board for Allianz until 1933 and on the supervisory board until 1945?
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Under normal circumstances I might do some research in an attempt to make my point. However, considering what they did to my people I don't want to expend any energy doing so.
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