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Old 04-11-2011, 04:17 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
I'm interested in the issue of whether organic-labeled foods taste better, just because I'd really like to know if there's a way to get better tasting food.
Step 1: freshness. If you can find a farm that lets you pick your own produce, it can be cheaper and better than letting someone else do it. Sometimes you can be eating food within an hour of picking/digging it, and there's no comparison with the same item which has been shipped, then moved on and off a supermarket's shelves, for 72 or 96 hours or more.

Step 2: varieties. This is typically harder to achieve, especially if you shop at a big store, but different varieties of many fruits can make a big difference.

Step 3: learn some preparation tricks to get the very best out of the principal flavours of the food.
Born 11/1960, retired June 30, 2012; DW born 07/1957, retired July 31, 2019. Current portfolio is 2000K Euros, split 30 stocks/20 bonds/20 RE/30 cash.
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Old 04-11-2011, 05:01 PM   #102
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Wow - who knew "organic" was as controversial as religion or politics!
Make no mistake, my friend, it takes more than money to make men rich. - A. P. Gouthey
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Old 04-11-2011, 06:54 PM   #103
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Alright fellas. I'm bowing out - you can claim victory and go eat your fertilized fruits and veggies.

I've said several times I've actually spent a lot of time looking into these things and for me it was enough to conclude I'd choose organic over not in many cases and that's that. You want me to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, I'm not going to do that. I wasn't trying to convince anybody of anything. It seems everyone wants to claim a victory dance and beat me down until I give up - I don't need that. I just said based on what I know this is what I think. I was asked to explain more, I did. But no - I don't want to provide a thesis or a zillion data points or wiki leaks to prove my point. I studied these things before it was popular on the internet - so I can mail you my 1000 page readers but not sure it's worth the postage or reprinting costs. I'm sure you all are perfectly capable of making your own choices about what to eat. At the end of the day there is always someone's scientist who will say what they want them to say - so it's up to each person to decide what they will do.
If i think of something clever to say, i'll put it here...
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Old 04-11-2011, 08:17 PM   #104
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Hmmmm, I opened some can of worms here.
Work is something you do to get enough $ so you don't have to....Me.
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Old 04-11-2011, 08:18 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by 73ss454 View Post
Hmmmm, I opened some can of worms here.
Canned worms? Why not the organic variety, I hear they taste a lot better.
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Old 04-11-2011, 08:52 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by bright eyed View Post
I'm sorry you are upset with me or the discussion, that wasn't my aim in any of this - in fact I never wanted to get into this debate at all! And my reply you quoted is not at all intended for you - but to westernskies who I think just wants to piss on me when he sees an opportunity...
Nope, just have to question the thought process of anyone who states a strong topical position prefaced with the comment that he/she is too lazy to do the research to back it up; defends this as a valid decision-making process; then makes a snarky comment implying that their superior IQ and education alone should preclude the need to present any credible sources, data, or research to support their unsubstantiated claims. .......

....UNLESS.... of course! ....that's it! You're the new School Lunch Czar! ...
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Old 04-12-2011, 12:34 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by In-control View Post
- after all YOU ARE WHAT YOU EAT!!!!!


I want my food to contain lots of preservatives so I can live forever.
Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. That's my story and I am sticking to it.
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Old 06-02-2011, 08:30 AM   #108
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I don't buy organic. Or, at least, I don't shop for organic. I also go out of my way to avoid certain organic brands (such as Horizons milk)

However, I would posit that we went overboard with our use of fertilizers, pesticides, and herbicides and introducing organic farming techniques will bring lessons learned back to the non-organic side as well. If we choose to listen, that is.

For example, learning about improving soil and planting to attract beneficials leads to needing less fertilizer and less pesticide for farmers in west Africa. FAO Media Centre: Fewer pesticides and higher yields and incomes

There was also a sort of kind of interesting paper written on the banana industry (The Environmental Impact of the Banana Industry). Anyone wanting to make an anti-pesticide case would be most interested in section 2.1 and 2.2. The interesting part, to me, was the comparison between plantations in Costa Rica and Ghana. I also read a few years ago (but, unfortunately am having trouble finding the source) that some organic growing techniques and lessons transferred to the pesticide-heavy growers and allowed them to reduce the amount of pesticides and herbicides they use.

I'm also concerned about the impact of fertilizer runoff on our oceans, such as the dead zone in the gulf of mexico. And I'm worried about the loss of topsoil. However, a small but increasing number of corn / soya farmers are moving to no-till methods (which I've read about in organic and alt farming sources long before it hit the mainstream). They're also injecting fertilizer below the soil surface. No-till helps with soil erosion and injecting fertilizer below the soil greatly reduces runoff and reduces the amount of fertilizer needed.

The biggest things I shop for are local and in-season. For a variety of reasons (that aren't germane to the thread at hand), I also avoid feedlot cattle and pigs and poultry that was raised in a Tyson-approved facility. But, that's me voting with my wallet to help out with what I choose to support.

In my garden, I'm growing everything organic. However, this isn't some grand statement about health or anything. Rather, I'm attempting to grow with zero outside inputs. That means no organic fertilizers other than what I can compost and make use of in my yard. It also means devoting part of my yard to green manure crops, parts to attracting predatory insects, and parts to planting beneficials (eg, marigolds in with everything, dill in certain areas, etc).

However, I will only have around 2000 sq feet under cultivation (almost enough to feed 2 people) so my needs are much different than a farmer's. This means it doesn't take me much time to squash slugs and grubs by hand if I choose. this means, once I have my apple trees in and producing, I have the luxury of simply putting nylon netting over the apples I want to keep the maggots off and using the rest for cider.
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Old 06-02-2011, 08:18 PM   #109
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I have gardened organically for 19 years, 1st 600 sq ft now 1200 sq ft. Compost is good, green manure is good but in a 2000 sq ft garden that may be hard to do, I mean don't you want to grow food not something you'll turn under?

I recommend using a foliar spray to fertilize. I use Neptune's Harvest Fish and Seaweed emulsion, 2 oz makes 2 gallons. A gallon can last 1 sometimes 2 seasons depending how much I water vs spray, watering it in goes thru it faster. I spray it usually but sometimes I will water the plants, garlic and onions, cabbage and broccoli have waxy leaves and the spray tends to run off. When broccoli is producing heads then side shoots it'll stick ok but the leaves are still waxy tho larger and wider leaves do tend to hold the spray better than small plants like right now.
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Old 06-02-2011, 08:29 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by veremchuka View Post
I have gardened organically for 19 years, 1st 600 sq ft now 1200 sq ft. Compost is good, green manure is good but in a 2000 sq ft garden that may be hard to do, I mean don't you want to grow food not something you'll turn under?
Cover crops on the beds in the winter (except for the ones I plan to grow through the winter). I'll be growing green manure in the summer in another part of the yard. I haven't been counting that in my yardage, but I suppose I should

In that case, about 5000 square feet
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