Pot smoking renter

[clifp]

Ok, I have situation which I'd like some advice on. What do about my stoner renter/roomate.

I ended up with a fairly large house (and being in Hawaii) expensive house. After my Ex-girlfriend and I split up four years ago. I decided to get a roommate rather than downsize (I love the location). The roommate would provide money, cat care, and companionship plus the inevitable can you help move/hang this etc in that order. My first roommate was a terrific a smart easy going nurse. After a couple of years she left.

I like my location but at the top of hill it isn't ideal for many working people,. The rental space is my downstairs while fairly large 400+' and includes private bath, separate entrance, and cooking facilities, has number of disadvantages including a shared laundry, inconvenient closet space. Several years ago I had a choice between 1/2 dozen acceptable renters, last year despite dropping the rent a $100+ it took me almost 4 months to find a tenant, I think this is a largely a function of the bad economy.

My tenant is nice enough guy (late 30s) but his employment status was flaky when I met and he has since lost his job. He has some part time worker but none since Xmas. Other than one month he has paid the rent on time (and in cash). When he moved in mentioned he occasionally smoked dope, but no cigarettes. He offered to smoke outside but I decide rather than risk a scene with one of my neighbors, it would be ok for him to smoke in his room. Ever since he lost his job, he has been smoking more pot, as well hanging around the house with his fellow band members. They are not particularly loud nor disturbing. I turned away self-employed people because I frankly didn't want to folks hang around the house all the time. So I am not thrilled that I don't have the house to myself more.

I knew plenty of stoners when I was in college (as well as smoked my fair share of pot) and my roommate and his friend remind me a lot of them.

My sister tells me I should get rid of the guy (if he stops paying the rent I will have no problems doing so.) because she thinks (having been a serious druggie many years ago herself) that A. he is probably doing more than smoking dope, B. Maybe dealing and C. His friends may decide to rip me off.

Now frankly, I am not that concerned about being ripped off. I don't have that much valuable stuff lying around. On the other hand the legal consequence of being associated with something beyond a simple misdemeanor marijuana are troubling. And the potential for drug related violence or crime are also greatly concerning.

I am especially interested in those of you with legal and law enforcement backgrounds. What type of legal risks do I likely face? Any suggestions on how to approach the problem.

Given the the troubles I had finding a tenant, I am not anxious to get rid of a f paying one. I figure it would take $300-350K in additional assets to make up for the $800 plus depreciation I lose per month for rent.

 

[Notmuchlonger]

I agree with your sister. The majority of the pot smokers in my life have done more than smoke pot. Its illegal. (blah blah on those who think it should be legal. For now it is not. Unless he lives in a state that allows medical mj use..etc etc etc)

Boot him when you can. Find someone else.


Oh and I'm not a law enforcement type...lawyer or a fine up standing citizen. Im just a Joe.

So I could get into the story of a blood relative. Who we just smoked pot. Went to work etc etc. Next thing I know my roomie cant come up with the rent and his sniffling all around. AhhA! Yeah Ill save the story.

 

[CuppaJoe]

KGO radio (may be familiar to you from your Silicon Valley days) has a radio call-in lawyer who loves loves that kind of call.

 

[FIREd]

I agree with your sister. I would worry about the cops raiding my house and being caught in the net, personally.

 

[Darryl]

Not a lawyer or a cop just a former landlord. Had ALL kinds of nefarious BS going on but if it was low key enough to not alert the neighbors or the cops it was a pass. Calls from the neighbors is a fail. I would talk to him and explain your discomfort. Say that if he could keep it at a level where you didn't notice it would be a pass or maybe he should move on. I hated losing tenants but sometimes you do need to move on.
Definitely no interest in being on the news or getting ripped off by friends.

 

[harley]

What's the address? I'll stop in and talk to him. Probably have him straightened out in a few minutes, or maybe years. That darned time dilation effect.

 

[bbbamI]

The concerns I have with the pot in regards to your liability is him leaving some in your living quarters and/or growing some on your property and it being discovered by law enforcement. I suggest running a criminal background check on him if you have not done so.

These are just concerns I have...I'm not a professional, just a volunteer cop with a little experience.

 

[dt123]

Is possession of small amounts legal in Hawaii? That would be my concern, which is that the cops show up for some legitimate reason, notice the pot, the smell or paraphernalia, and decide to arrest everyone with access to the house for possession.

 

[Nords]

Does he pay his rent in cash or does he use some other negotiable medium of exchange? Just kidding.

Without involving the police, the best recourse would be to not renew the lease. If he's already past the end of the lease and going month-to-month then you could give him his notice. Tell him you're taking the apartment off the market to move in your [aging family] [visiting relative] [new significant other]. Or you're getting ready to renovate. Or sell.

I seriously doubt you could get the police to pay a call even if you shot video for the local news station. If you tried to evict him for just about anything, let alone the pot, then there'd be the inevitable property damage or even worse.

Check your PMs in about 20 minutes.

 

[kyounge1956]

I agree with firedreamer, notmuchlonger and bbbamI—out with him. I think your concerns are justified. Consult your lawyer (or KGO's) to be sure, but IMO, this guy could get you arrested.

And what on earth you were thinking of, giving this guy a verbal OK to engage in illegal activities on your property? What are you going to do if, when you tell him to move out, he threatens to tell the cops that you, his landlord, said it was OK for him to smoke dope in his room? ISTM that wth those few words, you have left yourself wide open to an ugly little thing called blackmail.

 

[Leonidas]

Well, a little light dope dealing would be a reasonable suspicion based on the facts that he doesn't work but has no problem handing over cash money for the rent. I didn't see a specific amount for the monthly rent, but unless it is a pittance even casual labor would be a stretch to explain that. If he's not eating rice and beans, and doesn't seem to be otherwise living hand to mouth, the all cash and no real job thing starts to smell bad.

There are explanations other than drug dealing, but most of them are illegal.

If he's dealing there, or doing the deals somewhere else, the risk to you is that somebody could be tempted to drop by and relieve him of his stash that he might be keeping there. That's one of those situations where you hope the guys with guns who kick in strangers' doors are cops and not bad guys. But regardless of who shows up, you are at risk of being drug into it.

If the bad guys show up they might drag you into it just to make sure you're not dialing 911. If the good guys show up they may have vague information about who you are and the relationship between you and your tenant, or which part of the house is yours and which part is rented to him. In that kind of situation the 4th Amendment allows for what is called a "protective sweep", which means they can search the entire house, outbuildings, etc. to make sure that there is nobody present who might pose a safety risk. They wouldn't be justified in digging through your drawers and such, but going through the rooms, holding you temporarily, etc. would all be justified. Since it would be a justified search, anything illegal that they saw in plain view in your part of the house could be admissible against you in court.

That's major league drama in your life.

There is all sorts of minor league drama that is possible if the dude is dealing or doing some other illicit activity.

If it were me, I'd find a reason to get him out.

 

[Westernskies]

I'd tell him that his once-sporadic pot use has become too frequent, is stinking up your house and is become more of a liability than the $300/month he is paying in rent. Time to go, stoner! He has heard it before.

 

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

Isn't it a crime to know about a crime and not report it?

 

[dt123]

^^ Not generally. The general rule is there is no tattle-tale rule.

There are some nuanced exceptions to the general rule, however. It is a crime to know about a crime then actively help someone avoid arrest for the crime. It is a crime to know about a crime then lie to law enforcement to throw off an investigation.

There are also special instance tattle-tale rules. It is a crime for certain populations to fail to report certain crimes, example, teachers must report suspected child abuse, doctors must report patients with gunshot wounds, etc. But when Joe Schmoe walking down the street sees a bank robbery in progress, he does not commit a new crime by not calling 911.

Usual disclaimer about how none of the above is legal advice, even if it is it is all wrong, and even if right someone would be a fool to rely on it.

 

[NW-Bound]

Man! Again, I need to have my eyes checked.

At first glance of the thread title, instead of "Pot Smoking Renter", I thought I read "Pot Smoking Center"!

Leonidas has a good point about how this renter finances his living expenses plus his smoking habit.

 

[Walt34]

Agree with Leonidas. The whole situation is one that puts you in a position to get dragged into a bunch of stuff that can enormously complicate your life. I'd find a reason to get rid of him.

 

[Nords]

If it were me, I'd find a reason to get him out.

I'd find a reason to get rid of him.

No disputing those conclusions, but does anyone know of any advanced landlording tricks to make that happen?

Eviction, while rarely resulting in fatal injuries to the landlord, can be at least as painful (and certainly as damaging) as a home invasion.

I know that tenants are probably violating a lease when they engage in illegal activity. But AFAIK the only mechanisms to cancel the lease would be eviction or buying out the tenant. And a buyout might be perceived to be almost as painful as the eviction.

 

[W2R]

If his lease has run out, I'd both raise his rent sharply and make a pest of myself. That might get him to leave.

Next time, I wouldn't tell a tenant he can smoke pot as long as he stays inside and then get upset that he is smoking pot a lot and having friends over.

CAVEAT: I am not, never have been, and never will be, a landlord.

 

[Meadbh]

Don't you have a lease agreement? What does it say? If not, why not?

 

[CuppaJoe]

If his lease has run out, I'd both raise his rent sharply and make a pest of myself. That might get him to leave....

Some thirty years later, now I get it. Maybe that's what my landlady was doing when she raised the rent and starting knocking on my door, drunk, just wanting to talk. j/k, poor thing died at 61 shortly after that. I much prefer absentee landlords and will never even consider living in someone's separate entry rental property under the same roof.

 

[Leonidas]

^^ Not generally. The general rule is there is no tattle-tale rule.

True, but that's not universal across the country. I worked in one of the few (maybe only) federal districts where Misprision of Felony is alive and well. Limited in scope, and certainly mere knowledge of the existence of a crime would not be prosecuted, but we did use it. I don't think that OP has to worry about that, given the stated lack of involvement.

Rich, I do know that certain professions have an increased responsibility that could subject them to misprision prosecutions. We made a certain ER doc's life miserable once after he made a poor decision regarding some evidence that was secreted inside an orifice of some crook. He didn't do anything other than suggesting and then allowing the crook to dispose of the evidence herself, but that had the US Attorney so pissed that he was going to prosecute the guy. It worked out in the end, mostly because it would have been a distraction from the stuff we were working on, but not before the AUSA made him sweat for a couple of months.

 

[Keim]

It worked out in the end...

 

[Leonidas]

Ha! Hoisted by my own petard.

 

[thefed]

soooo...how many times have you smoked with this guy? lol jk (not really)

if you dont like it, you're the boss. he wont want to cause a stink (no pun intended)

if you do like it, make him give you some

 

[HpRyder]

clifp: In CA, you would be considered renting a room in the house you live in, hence standard landlord-tenant laws don’t apply, but special ones do. A good fast way is to join you local landlord or investment real estate association and network around. I hope your rental agreement with him is written and is month-to-month with a substantial security deposit. I don’t know what the going room rental rate in your area is, but in CA it runs from 650 to 1200, depending on the area. If this is true for your Hawaii area, then you are renting to him at below market rates. Assuming this is not an under the table rental, if IRS audits you, they may impute a fair market rental rate to you as rental income. Then bill you for unpaid taxes. As a landlord I try not to rent below fair market levels and certainly not as much as you seem to be doing. So to get rid of him, I would change the terms of the rental agreement. I would jack up the rent to fair market rates. Remind him that he was accepted in part because he was employed and had a steady income source, which isn’t the case now and that he needs to get one. Mention to him that he is having too many visitors over way too often and you believe it will soon cause neighbor complaints. Given that he is smoking pot you really don’t want to draw that attention to your self. So you tell him how many visitors he can have, when and for how long.

In CA, for a home room rental, you don’t have to go to court, just move his stuff out and change the locks.

Good luck.