Pre nups ?

[Moemg]

I was just reading an article on pre nups and was wondering how many here would have a pre nup . Not just us single folk but if something happened so the married people were single again and considering marriage ? I would definetely have one . Not a wacky one with sex and chore clauses but a normal one that covers the assests I came into the marriage with .

 

[HFWR]

I voted "yes", in the unlikely event I get married again...

 

[Walt34]

"Maybe". It depends so much on the individual's circumstances.

After one bad marriage and contemplating another 21 years ago, it did cross my mind. Neither had kids, but I had over twice her income and owned a home, and was halfway through what is generally considered a short career and if the marriage went sour I wasn't sure I'd ever be able to financially recover.

In the end I decided not to even bring up the subject because I was either committed or not, and if I was unwilling to bet the whole ball of wax then that wasn't commitment.

Kids would change that perspective since there would then be other people affected by the outcome.

 

[Notmuchlonger]

Great timing.

Woman allegedly beat up fiancé at prenup party - Crime & courts - MSNBC.com

 

[travelover]

Getting married when you are 50+ is a lot different that when you are in your early 20's. There are typically step kids involved and widely different financial circumstances.

 

[growing_older]

I was married young when we were idealistic and committed everything to be shared, though I did have some individual property through gifts and inheritances. With hard work and a committed relationship, we built that plus our savings into a nearly FIRE sized portfolio. Then I got blindsided by her mid-life crisis and she unilaterally was able to make off with most of the assets (in part because I was trying to maintain stability for kids which apparently she (or her lawyer) didn't care about). It will cost me about 15 years until I'm ready to FIRE again. I cannot imagine getting married again without the protection of a prenup. It wasn't a question of commitment. I was fully and completely committed to that relationship (ouch, still hurts quite a bit to discuss) but no matter how much I worked at it or how many different avenues I tried to hold us together, it takes the action of two people to make a marriage and it only takes one of them to walk away. I can imagine being in a future relationship that I would be fully committed to, and I would expect that everything we do together after marriage is ours together, but I cannot imagine exposing my current individual assets before that marriage to the possibility of another divorce scenario. I'm 100% for prenup, despite being in general 100% romantic and deeply committed. It's like insurance for an unlikely but potentially devastating scenario.

 

[Cattusbabe]

We did not do a pre-nup. When we married there was nothing to fight over so there was no point. Now that there is we take the attitude that it all goes into and out of one pot. Going forward, we have a strong trust document that will provide for his children after I'm gone. I have no children. If I re-married should something happen to him? (highly unlikely) I would do a pre-nup to protect the people that the original trust protects.

 

[Moemg]

Wacky pre nups

‘I do, you don’t’: Nine oddest prenups - TODAY Weddings - Today.msnbc.com

 

[bbbamI]

Since I have no children, my only concern would be my parents. If they were gone and I were to marry again, I would not have a pre-nup.

 

[dex]

When a marriage begins to dissolve the people involved grows exceptionally - lawyers; friends and family - and they bring in their life experiences into play.

I wonder how many marriages last until death - let's say the people get married at 30 y/o? Anyone know the answer?

 

[HFWR]

My parents were married for 56 years. 'Til death they did part... My dad remarried, and they have a pre-nup, mostly to protect her assets, since he doesn't have that many on his own.

I was married for twelve years; ten the first time, and two the second...

It only felt like death!

 

[haha]

I was married young when we were idealistic and committed everything to be shared, though I did have some individual property through gifts and inheritances. With hard work and a committed relationship, we built that plus our savings into a nearly FIRE sized portfolio. Then I got blindsided by her mid-life crisis and she unilaterally was able to make off with most of the assets (in part because I was trying to maintain stability for kids which apparently she (or her lawyer) didn't care about). It will cost me about 15 years until I'm ready to FIRE again. I cannot imagine getting married again without the protection of a prenup. It wasn't a question of commitment. I was fully and completely committed to that relationship (ouch, still hurts quite a bit to discuss) but no matter how much I worked at it or how many different avenues I tried to hold us together, it takes the action of two people to make a marriage and it only takes one of them to walk away. I can imagine being in a future relationship that I would be fully committed to, and I would expect that everything we do together after marriage is ours together, but I cannot imagine exposing my current individual assets before that marriage to the possibility of another divorce scenario. I'm 100% for prenup, despite being in general 100% romantic and deeply committed. It's like insurance for an unlikely but potentially devastating scenario.

A totally realistic post. To me, thinking that because you are committed and devoted to a relationship, that relationship will necessarily last, or even that in all circumstances you would want it to last, is a form of magical thinking. "I desire this, therefore it will be."

Well, may be true. But we all know that it may not be. Then what? For me, no marriage at all is best. But if I were to get married I would want a strong pre-nup. It would basically say that this relationship is a form of voluntary association. If I don't please you, you are free to leave on the next train. With all your stuff, and none of mine. We have no joint stuff, beyond furnishings, and perhaps a house or car that we buy together. I have the same freedom of purely voluntary association and freedom to leave with my stuff. If you are still here, you are deemed to be in agreement with this.

This clearly would need a lot of thought if one were marrying a woman who can still have kids. But I personally wouldn't have the energy for kids at this point, so that aspect would have to be surgically or otherwise covered.

This might scare off some potential mates. Good! So might a drug test or STD screen or criminal background check or credit report. Good!

I was a young idealistic guy once, now an older more clear-eyed one. It is more fun to be young and idealistic, but for me that is a one time event.

Ha

 

[youbet]

Interesting pre-nup story........

Lifetime buddy was (sadly) divorced a few years ago at the age of 55 ending a 30+ year marriage. He met another lady and, after about a year of dating, they started talking marriage. DW and I thought that was great since they seemed to be a great match and we enjoyed being with them socially.

Well..... New Lady asked for a pre-nup to be drawn up keeping pre-marriage assets separate. But, when she discovered that he was worth several times more than her (he recently inherited several million bux from his widowed dad), she decided that no pre-nup was necessary! He walked and never looked back.

Wise choice on his part. A prospective spouse who wants to protect her/his pre-marriage assets only if her/his assets are larger has a little credibility problem IMO. He was also wise to keep the details of his recent inheritance to himself during the dating phase.

 

[haha]

Interesting pre-nup story........

Lifetime buddy was (sadly) divorced a few years ago at the age of 55. He met another lady and, after about a year of dating, they started talking marriage. DW and I thought that was great since they seemed to be a great match and we enjoyed being together socially as couples.

Well..... New Lady asked

Youbet, please, the suspense is too great!

 

[youbet]

Youbet, please, the suspense is too great!

Sorry.... accidentally posted mid-stream. Went back and edited in "the rest of the story."

 

[dex]

If the info below is correct, than getting married a second or third time really is a poor bet.


The divorce rate in America for first marriage, vs second or third marriage
50% percent of first marriages, 67% of second and 74% of third marriages end in divorce, according to Jennifer Baker of the Forest Institute of Professional Psychology in Springfield, Missouri.”
Divorce Rate : Divorce Rate In America

http://www.divorcemag.com/statistics/statsUS.shtml

I hope I remember this, if I ever think about getting married, again.

http://www.etni.org.il/quotes/marriage.htm
[FONT=Arial, Times New Roman][SIZE=-1][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Times New Roman][SIZE=-1][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Men marry women with the hope they will never change. "Women marry men with the hope they will change. "Invaribly they are both disappointed." (Albert Einstein)[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[Sarah in SC]

This might scare off some potential mates. Good! So might a drug test or STD screen or criminal background check or credit report. Good!
Ha

So what would they find out about you if they did the background check, Ha? Which one would it be.... O0 or

 

[haha]

So what would they find out about you if they did the background check, Ha? Which one would it be.... O0 or

 

[Moemg]

50% percent of first marriages, 67% of second and 74% of third marriages end in divorce,

Interesting , Several of my friends are on their third and blissfully happy ! Maybe because by that age the kids are grown and no longer a factor ?

 

[Khan]

A totally realistic post. To me, thinking that because you are committed and devoted to a relationship, that relationship will necessarily last, or even that in all circumstances you would want it to last, is a form of magical thinking. "I desire this, therefore it will be."

I was committed and devoted to my marriage, but that was not sufficient.

Well, may be true. But we all know that it may not be. Then what? For me, no marriage at all is best. But if I were to get married I would want a strong pre-nup. It would basically say that this relationship is a form of voluntary association. If I don't please you, you are free to leave on the next train. With all your stuff, and none of mine. We have no joint stuff, beyond furnishings, and perhaps a house or car that we buy together. I have the same freedom of purely voluntary association and freedom to leave with my stuff. If you are still here, you are deemed to be in agreement with this.

Absolutely.

...This might scare off some potential mates. Good! So might a drug test or STD screen or criminal background check or credit report. Good!

As long as it was mutual.

Used to be, there were matchmakers who researched the (rather small) pool of potential spouses.

I was a young idealistic guy once, now an older more clear-eyed one. It is more fun to be young and idealistic, but for me that is a one time event.

"I don't want to be young, I did that already."

 

[CuppaJoe]

....I'm 100% for prenup, despite being in general 100% romantic and deeply committed. It's like insurance for an unlikely but potentially devastating scenario.

Having worked in Family Law appeals since 1991, I'm not going to say everything I think about pre nups. Since we're talking "insurance" here, think about how forum member 2B writes about annuities.

Pre nups are very very cheap to draw up and just the opposite if contested.

Sorry if this offends anyone but I know of no really good attorneys who draw up pre nups, there is too little money it it. The ones I've seen reviewed also don't take much time and that's where you might see the most "cover my butt letters," that is cover the reviewing attorney's butt.

Would you really want your complex dissolution of marriage proceedings to spend three days of trial time on a minor point on your pre nup, or as I somethings see, eight weeks of trial time, thousands of pages of transcripts, and a vindictive ex appealing every possible angle? After a while, you are spending real money.

I haven't thought this through, but as an alternative (short of staying single) I would consider spending a lot of money (up to $20,000) on attorney consult time for advice on keeping separate pre-marital assets separate and traceable. I would keep it totally confidential between me and the attorney; there would be no last-minute pre-wedding tears over it.

 

[ProspectiveBum]

I voted no pre-nup. In the highly unlikely event that I ever re-marry (still madly in love with wife #1), I just couldn't imagine marrying somebody that I had even the slightest doubt about. Realistically, I probably would never marry again.

 

[haha]

Having worked in Family Law appeals since 1991, I'm not going to say everything I think about pre nups.

Thanks for informed comments from one in the field.

Ha

 

[growing_older]

I just couldn't imagine marrying somebody that I had even the slightest doubt about

In case it wasn't clear from my earlier post. I DID marry someone that I had absolutely no doubt about whatsoever. We communicated well for 20 years and there were still no doubts. Then, something changed in her about midlife and she no longer wanted to be married. I was still as committed as ever. It is NOT the case that I'm thinking future prenup because I'm entering into a shaky relationship. It is the case that I'm thinking prenup because I've taken a lifetime to accumulate near FI and I wouldn't want to expose that separate property to a possible split in divorce, which I know can happen despite my best efforts and intentions. I would want my separate property to remain mine (and my kids') no matter the scenario.

I'm still a hopeless romantic and dream of a fully committed relationship where we share everything. But even if I should be lucky enough to find someone with whom to share such a future relationship, I cannot imagine doing so without explicit agreement that separate property BEFORE the marriage would be treated as separate property in the (however unlikely) event of divorce. Maybe my experience poisons my outlook, but I KNOW that no matter how sure I am of the other persons intentions and romantic affection, people can and do change and I cannot control that.

 

[socca]

...keeping separate pre-marital assets separate and traceable. I would keep it totally confidential between me and the attorney; there would be no last-minute pre-wedding tears over it.

I like the first sentence for folks getting hitched in a non-community property state, but I wonder how well this would work in a community property state. I wonder about the second sentence, though. Wouldn't it be better to have everything openly disclosed, discussed, and agreed upon before getting hitched, including which pre-marital assets are going to be kept separate, and how? Having never been married and not being an expert in marital law, I'm just floating trial balloons.

My (now deceased) step-father's attorneys treated my mother like a scheming, gold-digging witch during the pre-nup negotiation/signing process. My mother said it was a horrible experience. For folks interested in a romantic engagement & wedding, this could be a real downer. In a bizarre twist, my step-father ended up leaving a huge amount to my mother, enraging my step-brothers.

I have no problem with pre-nups. However, I don't see any reason to get hitched. Co-habitation & partnership are adequate for my needs.