Protecting an eight-year-old computer?

[Nords]

Re: eMachines power supply

Question for Nords, I think.
I just picked up a new eMachines computer (to replace our 8-year-old Win98 home machine...)  and then noticed that that seems to be a brand with which Nords has extensive experience.  The power supply is 300 W.  Is that enough, or should I plan on it dying soon?  There is a card modem that I could remove to save on a little bit of power, but it does not seem a very heavily loaded machine.  (DVD/CD-R, hard disk, multi-card reader, no graphics card, and about 300 USB ports which, however, would only be connected to things with their own power.)
But it actually runs OpenOffice in real-time!  Yay!

Have you been shopping with my FIL?

300W should be reliable enough if there aren't extra hard drives & other power-suckers or hot, dusty conditions.  

I don't have any proof yet, but I think that my power-supply problems were caused by plugging the computer into a circuit that had a GFCI breaker in the panel.  I don't think it was the fault of eMachines.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I'll help ya. I bought two of them. Both ate their power supplies within a year. I bothered to replace one PS. That machine smoked its motherboard less than six months later.

One of my BIL's bought an emachine 2 years ago. Power supply smoked a little over a year later.

 

[bpp]

Thanks for the feedback, guys. I thought I was being all Unclemick, WebTV and Norwegian widows, but then I stumbled across this thread and realized I was Nords' FIL. Except we do have ADSL.

I guess I will avoid any internal expansion of the machine, making heavy use of the USB ports instead, and see how much time I get out of it. The previous machine was a rock-solid, reliable Fujitsu, and still runs fine, but 400 MHz is just not tolerable anymore. I hate to throw it away, but I can't think of anything useful to do with it. It doesn't even run Linux well (that OS has really bloated up lately), which was my original retirement plan for it. I'm planning to strip the harddrives and put them into USB enclosures for the new machine.

 

[Nords]

Well, my FIL and I went over Microsoft's website and verified that indeed the IE7.0 beta and Messenger programs are free downloads to "help you connect", but you still need to dial a phone number. I think he understands the difference now. *Sigh.*

NEWSFLASH!!! Just got a phone call-- he bought a computer!!

Strangely enough it's the same model as our computer-- Compaq Presario, AMD Athlon 3700 64-bit CPU, 1 GB RAM, 200 GB HD, a graphics card, a 17" LCD monitor, and a printer. $600 from Circuit City.

He says he needs a "UBS" cable for the printer. Maybe it's easier to put a USB cable in a plastic bag, label it "UBS", and give it to him. Nah, I should explain the acronym.

I wonder how long it's going to take to update WinXP on a 56K modem. And then to download his WMConnect software. I think I'll lay low for a couple weeks.

We were talking about buying them a new computer for their 50th anniversary (less than two years away). Maybe instead we'll buy them a DSL account...

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

Ed - I hate to be contrary, but thats not my experience with the thinkpads. I've still got a pentium 3-500 model from about 8-9 years ago and I looked at the current model over at the store. No comparison. The newer thinkpads dont have the nicer keyboards and I didnt think the display quality was any different from the other products in the store, but the price sure was in the stratosphere. I didnt think it was worth it, the obvious quality benefits the thinkpads used to have seem to have gone by the cost cutting wayside. The toshiba keyboards felt better and the sony displays looked a lot cleaner. But then I havent taken any of them apart so...

Hmmm. Well, time willl tell, I suppose. I use an outboard keyboard normally. The built-in one is for travel and emergencies only. The display is adequate for my needs, as is the speed (once I ripped out the Google on-board database and other deritus). The price was right, too. $600 CAD ain't too bad and I needed it urgently.

Our family doesn't have very consistent luck with laptops. Both kids prefer desktop machines for school now. My bro's daughter had dismal experience with HP and Compaq machines a few years ago when she was still in school. A tech at Big Oil where I worked panned HP, too, and HP was our standard.

The big positive thing was that the tech who helped me showed me what connector to buy to be able to connect up the old laptop hard drives as aux drives and get my data back. I have two more or less kaput machines at home that have stuff I REALLY want on the drives. I didn't have them backed up well enough. These memory sticks and XP make it much easier. They are used a lot in my industry.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

AMD Athlon 3700 64-bit CPU

Hope you both keep a glass of water and a stick handy, or have good fire insurance.

Buying the in-laws their ISP makes a handy annual holliday gift...

 

[JB]

Don't listen to CFB. He must still have stock in INTL. The Athlon64 is a great processor and much more efficient than the Intel alternative. Power consumption of the P4 and Pentium-D is significantly higher. Intel should have these issues fixed with their latest processors, but they are very expensive. For a $50-100 desktop processor I don't think you can beat the Athlon64 for efficiency.

From Silent PC Review : 'The power efficiency of AMD Athlon 64 single and dual core processors is excellent, even for their highest performance models. The Intel desktop processors suffer from inefficiency, even on the 65nm die.'

I just built a new desktop system and selected the athlon64 for this reason.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I dont think you've read any recent reviews...

The new Intel stuff (core 2 duo) is eating the best AMD has to offer, at a lower cost.

Not one single share of INTC, even among the funds I own...

But those AMD chips might catch fire on you...and the TEETH!

 

[JB]

The new Intel stuff (core 2 duo) is eating the best AMD has to offer, at a lower cost.

RIght, that's at the high end -- $200-$900 for the processor alone. For a budget PC the Pentium4 and PentiumD is no match for the Athlon64 when in comes to efficiency. However, my older AlthlonXP does run hot!! But the only machine that actually burned up was a Dell notebook w/ Pentium III.

Didn't this Dell Notebook have an Intel chip!

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Must be reading different reviews...everything i've seen says that dollar for dollar the intel chip is faster. And the prices on the older intel line has been cut so far that you can buy more performance in a 'low dollar' machine than anyone feasibly needs.

Good time to be a PC buyer though.

Unless Intel makes batteries now, that laptop fire wasnt their fault.

AMD's warranty department did do a healthy business replacing their processors that lacked thermal protection...not a big profit in that business though...

 

[Nords]

Don't listen to CFB. He must still have stock in INTL.   The Athlon64 is a great processor and much more efficient than the Intel alternative.  Power consumption of the P4 and Pentium-D is significantly higher.  Intel should have these issues fixed with their latest processors, but they are very expensive.  For a $50-100 desktop processor I don't think you can beat the Athlon64 for efficiency.

Actually I'm the Intel stockholder-- nice dividend yield below $18, and I think I'll buy a little more this week. AMD is heading full-tilt for the M&A cliff and they won't even see Intel's price reductions coming until it hits them in the bottom line. Of course I consulted TH after I'd read a BW article and done my due diligence, and he's no shill. Intel managed to cough Core 2 out on time so we'll let the Darwinian nature of competition take its course...

I think that an Athlon 64 in a WinXP system is like trying to drive a NASCAR vehicle on a one-lane country road. You could do it, but it makes no sense and you wouldn't pay money for it! We bought the Athlon 64 with the rest of our system because it's cheap. I'm sure that's the same conclusion my FIL arrived at...

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I thought about this a lot last night and to be fair, I shouldnt be talking about these AMD processors catching fire or the processors biting people.

The case on most machines is thick enough to ably prevent both of those hazards in most cases.

That having been said...

Clock for clock and (with these price cuts) the older pentium-m and core duo's are going to get really cheap and they're great performers with excellent power consumption. Buyers in the market for a cheap system should eyeball these...and the P-M's are finding their way into some desktops too. Even desktop buyers might want to consider a laptop with an external monitor and keyboard...I went that route and dropped my computer energy consumption by 75%...

The core 2 duo's coming out have up to 40% better performance than an equivalent priced chip either from the former intel or current amd line. And given intel's run by a sales guy now instead of a manufacturing guy, watch the price war heat up further as intel seeks to get back all of its market share.

And Nords' point is well taken...browsing and email ran pretty well on a pentium-3. Digital video editing, format conversion and FPS twitch games can use the power but even a low end chip from either company is capable in these high end areas.

Vista's going to be a big pile of slow code doo-doo (thanks microsoft!), but more people will have trouble with the graphics requirements than the cpu requirements...at this point, many 'integrated graphics' chips arent going to cut it. That requirement may drop.

Lastly, dont get fooled by the 64 bit routine...all 64 bit does is let you address a brazillion gb of memory instead of 4gb (in the average system). Unless you need more than 4gb of ram, aside from some other minor performance enhancements that have nothing to do with 64 bit, you may actually get lower performance from a 64 bit part than an equivalent 32 bit part. A 64 bit processor has to do a lot more work to execute 64 bit instructions, and unless you're making use of that extra memory, thats all overhead.

With a 64 bit operating system, 64 bit drivers, 64 bit applications, 10-20GB of ram, and 2 hours of digital video to convert from AVI to WMA? Well...you'd like that...it'd convert in about an hour instead of the 2-4 hours it'd take to do on one of todays mid range rig. Most any other app? Not very interesting.

 

[Leonidas]

With a 64 bit operating system, 64 bit drivers, 64 bit applications, 10-20GB of ram, and 2 hours of digital video to convert from AVI to WMA? Well...you'd like that...it'd convert in about an hour instead of the 2-4 hours it'd take to do on one of todays mid range rig.

Damn. I have been doing my best to ignore the whole 64 bit issue until you wrote that. From now on, every time I hit the button and see "estimated time remaining 2 hours 30 minutes" I will know if I had me a 64 bit machine I wouldn't have to put up with this slow crap.

Where's my checkbook?

Modified to add this question:

10 to 20 Gigs of Ram? They got MoBo's that will hold that?

 

[JB]

Clock for clock and (with these price cuts) the older pentium-m and core duo's are going to get really cheap and they're great performers with excellent power consumption. Buyers in the market for a cheap system should eyeball these...and the P-M's are finding their way into some desktops too.

Next year this will be true. I just built a desktop system with the goals of: reasonably fast, inexpensive, and low power consumption. The pentium-M and duos are fantastic, but they are pricey, few motherboards areavailable, and those that are are expensive.. The low cost intel desktop processors are too hot (inefficient). The Athlon64 is perfect -- fast, inexpensive, efficient. System cost is around $450 for Athlon64 3200 with 1GB memory, 250GB HD, firewire, dual head video, DVI, optical audio. You can't build a -low power- system with those specs and price using a pentium. I tried. I wanted a desktop system instead of a notebook because they are durable, expandable, and if it breaks I can fix it.

Right now Intel has better mobile processors and high end desktop processors with the Conroe. In the $100 range AMD is better if you care about power consumption.

No use for 64 bit.

I hope that AMD can continue to keep the pressure on. Competition is good for customers. I pretty sure that AMD has had thermal protection since the AthlonXP. Mine automatically shut down when the fan died.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

10 to 20 Gigs of Ram? They got MoBo's that will hold that?

Lots of server boards will...most desktop boards top out at ~8GB...for now...

You can't build a -low power- system with those specs and price using a pentium.

I sure can!

I hope that AMD can continue to keep the pressure on. Competition is good for customers.

Some competition is good for some customers. We're seeing a bit of the problem with what excessive 'competition' brings. Really fast cpu's, everything else has fallen behind, development tools 5 years behind, and no software to make use of all these cycles. And more frequent CPU bugs and 'issues'.

 

[Yipee-Ki-O]

Even desktop buyers might want to consider a laptop with an external monitor and keyboard...

So, would the HP PavillonDV5237CL that Costco is selling for $999 be a good choice? My current computer is an old Dell running Windows 98. I've thought about trying a Mac, but I'm not sure that I really want to learn a new operating system (not that I know much about Windows beyond e-mail and web surfing). Is a 15.4" LCD roughly equivalent to a 17"CRT in viewing area? Costco has several different brands in my price range of $1000-$1500. Are they all about the same? Thanks!

 

[REWahoo]

So, would the HP PavillonDV5237CL that Costco is selling for $999 be a good choice? ...Costco has several different brands in my price range of $1000-$1500. Are they all about the same? Thanks!

...Wab & CFB meet in the center of the ring exchanging cold stares, neither daring to break eye contact first.
"Lets make it a clean fight gentlemen," says the referee, "no hitting below the belt and no rabbit punches."

Round 1...DING!!!

 

[Nords]

Yet another update.

FIL went into the store with the Compaq ad in his hand but actually bought one of the HP Pavilion Slimlines.

I didn't get a chance to dig into the hardware but the case immediately evoked a "Awww, it's so cute!" reaction from my spouse. It has some interesting design economics: The front of the mini-case has a slot for every type of photo card known to man but there's no diskette drive. The special sale deal added a "free" printer but the package did not include the USB cable. There are no manuals or pamphlets or WinXP CDs and you have to make your own recovery DVDs. However Ethernet NICs are now included along with the 56K modem. (Remember when you had to pay $100 for that NIC to get broadband service?) He was debating returning a second USB cable because it was the "wrong kind" but luckily he showed it to me-- it's the USB cable to his camera. Thank goodness he has no interest in the wireless antenna included with their purchase.

The reason I didn't dig into the hardware was because Norton had taken over the computer and was slapping my FIL's hands away from the keyboard every time he tried to do anything, especially if it involved the Internet. Symantec has apparently adopted a "less is secure and nothing is better" access policy that was terrorizing their attempts to read the Washington Post. I fought the configuration battle for a while and had all the red windows screaming at me (which would cause him to worry) so I finally gave up and removed the whole package. I set the Windows default firewall and restored Norton Antivirus.

Since my NAV CD is a couple of years old it needed a big update. Downloading 12 MB of virus def files over a 56K modem is an experience I do not wish to repeat. After two hours of transfer glitches & disconnects I unhooked the box, drove it home, plugged into our DSL modem, and completed the process. Hooking up the box took longer than the download and the entire process (including the round trip and the connections) took less than 45 minutes. But hey, they only pay $9/month for Internet access!

I guess the next time we're over there I'll print out a Belarc summary to give him a basis for comparing their $500 purchase to other systems. (In a month we'll be hearing how much cheaper the new machines are and how much the bas****s took him for.) But for rock-bottom dirt-cheap users who want to remain computer illiterate, this system is better than a Mac.

My MIL is contentedly griping that the 17" LCD monitor is "too bright" compared to their old 15" CRT. (Since they've been married for 48 years, I think my FIL is deliberately claiming that he's dimming the monitor while leaving it on full power.) I had to crank the monitor resolution back to 1024x768 (it was set on 1280x1024 by default) so that they can read without magnifying glasses. My FIL is happily scheduling his Windows updates and his virus scans while fretting that attracting attention to themselves with a new computer means that he's susceptible to spyware and keystroke loggers.

I'm mildly concerned by his comment that he'll be downloading "that free Internet software off the Microsoft website." But hey, at least I can troubleshoot this machine without having to try to remember Win98 features or worrying about brittle-fracturing the motherboard...

So if you're a hacker looking for an easy zombie running Netscape at less than 50Kbps, send me a PM...