Puerto Rico

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Is land really cheap there or something? I don't understand why people would stay when they are US citizens and free to work and settle in any of the 50 states.

Some people in the poor Appalachian areas never move either.

I guess when one is poor, he is afraid to give up what little he has and to head out to the unknown when knowing nobody to help with starting a new life.
 
Some people in the poor Appalachian areas never move either.

I guess when one is poor, he is afraid to give up what little he has and to head out to the unknown when knowing nobody to help with starting a new life.
Interestingly going back in my family history looking at how the families did did not move around after coming to the US, One side stayed close to where they immigrated 2 for 3 generations (except for 2 brothers who chose the opposite side in the Civil War) The other side moved in the case of the longest residents from Ma to Ct to Nj to Oh to Ia, In and finally Mi (my parents). Others moved from Ma to Ny to Mi to IA and Oh to Ia in the 1840s, or oh to in (a move to the city in the 1880s)
So I suspect the willingness to move differs a lot, since it does involve giving up support systems. Of course all did this at least once when the came to the US, but then it was could you do it again in a generation or less?

But to bring the issue home, assume it is late 1848 and you just heard about the California gold discoveries. Assuming you were to poor to go by ship and had to do the land crossing would you go in 1849? (not knowing what we know today about it) ( and also assuming you were in your 30s).
 
But to bring the issue home, assume it is late 1848 and you just heard about the California gold discoveries. Assuming you were to poor to go by ship and had to do the land crossing would you go in 1849? (not knowing what we know today about it) ( and also assuming you were in your 30s).

I imagine it would largely depend on your alternatives at the time. I personally would have chosen to be a homesteader in the West. Then again, the scarlet fever I had as a kid probably would have killed me in the days before antibiotics.
 
Let me make the issue a bit more specific, assume you were a dirt farmer near subsistence level , somewhere in the midwest, on middling land. I should also add that at that time mail took a month or more for a round trip and the odds of ever seeing family again were pretty small if you left.
 
I am a little confused.
Puerto Rico, a US territory with US (non voting) citizens, has a population of well over 3 million people.
If the "news" is correct, it appears that there is no power system on the Island, and the water system is compromised. Again... depending on whether the information is correct, it appears that both systems may take weeks, if not months to correct.
Other sources indicate that the isalnd food supply, if not entirely wiped out, will also take months if not years to recover.
Already, an almost insolvent government, seems overwhelmed in recovery efforts.

Trying to catch up on what's happening, today's news, among other things, indicate so many sidelights that the scope of the disaster seems (to me) to being lessened.. Not that saving 180 homeless dogs, or emergency supplies of 1.6 million gallons of water and 23,000 sleeping bags is not important, but... with grocery store closed, and no replenishment of the necessities of life in the offing, the outlook seems sad.

One "worst case" scenario has millions starving, beset by disease and possible outbreaks of terrible epidemics. At present, any attempts to help are being frustrated by the lack of communications.

There are at this point US government rules about what foodstuffs can be imported, and from whom. Hopefully these rules will be lessened. (Jones Act).

Obviously this will soon regain more attention, and hopefully massive aid attempts will save lives. Hard to deal with so many catastrophes at one time... Texas, Florida, Mexico. Many millions of people have already had their lives changed forever, still, the total number of deaths are counted in the thousands... Without a huge recovery effort, I wonder if the Puerto Rico fatalities might reach the many thousands, hundreds of thousands, or maybe millions of people who will be affected forever.

I only hope that our nation can come together to avert this crisis.



The British Virgin Islands, Barbuda and Dominica were essentially wiped out by a category 5 storm. These places are all poorer than Puerto Rico with poor infrastructure. My heart goes out to all the victims of this hurricane.
 
It is going to get much worse before it gets better, and is probably far worse than anyone here imagines.

Yup. Some time real soon the bottled/stored water, canned foods, generator fuel, etc. will be running out, to say nothing of any stashes of medication (insulin, etc.). The military has not dispatched a carrier group or USNS Comfort (they are sitting at Norfolk). Ports are still a mess, airports re a shambles, restoration of electric power is probably weeks away for critical users and months way for the island as a whole. You have to have electricity to have municipal water. Oh yeah, before all this happened the island population skewed low income/older/vulnerable. And I can only imagine what life is like for the next 6 months on the out islands of Vieques and Culebra (probably nasty, brutish and short).

Imagine this happening in, say, Des Moines?
 
Is land really cheap there or something? I don't understand why people would stay when they are US citizens and free to work and settle in any of the 50 states.

For the same reasons families don't leave Seattle. Family ties, history, culture, etc.
 
For the same reasons families don't leave Seattle. Family ties, history, culture, etc.
+1

And I believe fear.

Some folks pick up and move easier than others. My one sister's never lived more than 20 miles from where she was born.

My other sibling and I both left home at 20 and moved thousands of miles away.
 
+1

And I believe fear.

Some folks pick up and move easier than others. My one sister's never lived more than 20 miles from where she was born.

My other sibling and I both left home at 20 and moved thousands of miles away.

Same with me, one sister in Connecticut living all her life in a 5 mile radius. Other Sis and me moved all over the world.
 
Note the average household income in PR is 19k while in the rest of the US it is 55k.


Is land really cheap there or something? I don't understand why people would stay when they are US citizens and free to work and settle in any of the 50 states.

It is a tropical island (i.e no snow, ice, etc). You do not have to pay federal income taxes. You can get all sort of benefits if your income is low enough to qualify. The same benefits as you have on the mainland. Why would anyone move from that situation? Here on the e-r forum, that situation is the holy grail...

When I worked for a consumer financial company (i.e. loan shark), PR was a challenging place as incomes were low and most of the island residents income came from government assistance.

PR people will do fine after this hurricane. If the individuals can get over the initial inconvenience, likely they will be better off than they ever have been. And certainly better off than if there was no hurricane. When you do not have anything, it doesn't take much to have a better life.

There will be many millionaires created from this bad situation.
 
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PR people will do fine after this hurricane. If the individuals can get over the initial inconvenience, likely they will be better off than they ever have been. And certainly better off than if there was no hurricane. When you do not have anything, it doesn't take much to have a better life.

There will be many millionaires created from this bad situation.

There will be many orphans, homeless, destitute, and worse. I have a feeling your post will not age well.

Losing power for a few days in South Florida after Irma is an inconvenience. Losing what PR has lost, after a Cat4/5, is a catastrophe.
 
You mean the "inconvenience" of no food, water, or shelter?

I do not think anyone will be without food, shelter or water for any length of time. It is tropical, no one will be freezing to death.

There are many natural sources of fresh water on the island. Somehow we think that water has to come from a bottle or some secret government source.

PR is not isolated, and it is a US territory. There is virtually unlimited resources than can be called into play. If it was really that bad over there, it would be on every news channel, 24 x 7.

Katrina was far worse.
 
It is going to get much worse before it gets better, and is probably far worse than anyone here imagines. With no data, communications, damage to infrastructure, no, it's not a tropical paradise. Anyone unfamiliar with the current situation can peruse many articles:

https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2...terphotos-from-a-battered-puerto-rico/540975/

How to Help from PBS: How you can help hurricane victims in Puerto Rico | PBS NewsHour
Thanks for that PBS link. I was already planning to research what are good organizations to contribute to this morning and that is a good start. I am distressed that we are not hearing anything much from the Federal Government on this. Tweets about the NFL when American citizens are facing a Katrina+ level crisis? High level attention can help get average citizens like us aware of the need to reach into our pocket books.
 
My concern about donating $$ is that PR is famous for corruption, that is certainly part of why they are 75 Billion in debt, and amazingly their infrastructure was decrepit and falling apart so the money didn't go there.

This disaster is going to make a few handlers of the cash very rich.
 
You mean the "inconvenience" of no food, water, or shelter?

When I see reports of Puerto Ricans driving around to find a cell phone signal, then I cannot imagine that the situation is terrible for all of them.

I also see reports of people using well water as they usually have done. I see reports of people using solar chargers for their cell phones.

So the folks who need medication, dialysis, insulin are in a world of hurt. Some of them will die, but the rest are basically on a campout in a hot steamy climate. They have shelter. They have access to water. They can ration food. Let's hope their vaccinations are up to date.

But I agree that it is TEOTWAWKI for many of them. It will be very hard, but for many of them, it was pretty hard before the hurricane, too.

A thing I learned living through disasters is that the government is not coming to your rescue in the first week or so. You will have to fend for yourself or get to a major distribution center on your own.
 
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I do not think anyone will be without food, shelter or water for any length of time. It is tropical, no one will be freezing to death.

There are many natural sources of fresh water on the island. Somehow we think that water has to come from a bottle or some secret government source.

PR is not isolated, and it is a US territory. There is virtually unlimited resources than can be called into play. If it was really that bad over there, it would be on every news channel, 24 x 7.

Katrina was far worse.

There ARE virtually unlimited resources that can be called into play.

And they have NOT been and there is no sign they WILL be in time to prevent many deaths.
 
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