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Old 11-28-2018, 09:03 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Red Badger View Post
Yep.

Here's where they are made today. Not listed are GA and SC, but they are strong as well.

https://www.mlive.com/auto/index.ssf...states_fo.html
Yep. They have incredible modern Hyundai and Kia factories in Montgomery and 100 miles east just over the GA state line.

And BMW in NW SC is exporting a bunch of vehicles to Europe. Great products and workmanship.

The Mercedes factory just outside Tuscaloosa is a multi $ billion investment, and they just add on and add on to the original facility. They're making 3 different cars there now.
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Old 11-28-2018, 09:46 PM   #22
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Good point.
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Old 11-28-2018, 09:48 PM   #23
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Don't forget VW in Chattanooga, and the originals, Honda and Toyota in Ohio.
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Old 11-28-2018, 10:03 PM   #24
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We are somewhere in the late stage of the business cycle. Consumer discretionary sector is not a good place to work.

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On average, late cycles last a year and a half. However, the character of late cycles tends to be less homogenous than other phases, and historically has ranged in length from less than a year to more than 2 years before the beginning of recession.
https://www.fidelity.com/viewpoints/...pdate-nov-2018
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Old 11-28-2018, 10:28 PM   #25
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The six months is standard at GM. It used to be up to a year at full pay and then 6 months at half pay but that was when they wanted to keep you in the rehire pool for a cyclical business. I think they shifted away from DB pensions around 2003 but the folks hired before that had both pension and 401k. Therefore they should’ve added a sweetener to boost acceptance. If you decline and hang around for a month or two you’d get paid for 7 or 8 months unless they cut the standard severance. The 20 yr old plant near here builds transmissions for trucks and hybrids and they are on the closure list so I guess that work will be moved elsewhere. And oh, they are getting back into medium duty trucks which they exited in 2008.
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Old 11-29-2018, 08:59 AM   #26
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We have a friend who's a Salaried engineer at GM (not at one of the plants closing). He's 62 and the package isn't particularly generous. The worst part is that there's no offering of GM health insurance until he's 65, and no bump in pension to help cover ACA premiums. Their prior ER windows have always offered one or the other, so it's pretty perplexing. He's passing on the package, unless of course they tell him he isn't.

This is a fine example of what's wrong with our country.
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Old 11-29-2018, 10:03 AM   #27
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When I was sent home in 2008, I had to pay about $450 per month for my full healthcare package and my wife's Medicare Supplement. The good news was that I had a Retiree Health Savings Account that had enough $ to pay those premiums from age 58 1/2 to 64 3/4 years of age. So it was a washout essentially.

I was always salaried in my 36 1/2 years, and I was very thankful for the UAW contract terms and salary increases that company white collar workers received even though we were not paying dues.

I was reading the other day how one car factory had about 185 huge robots used to move parts around, weld and paint. Instead of assembling cars, people are now used to do maintenance on those robots. Our local community college has a huge robot technician training building, and I'm sure the new Mazda-Toyota factory 8 miles away is going to really need them.
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Old 11-29-2018, 10:16 AM   #28
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R.I.F. at G.M. North America, 2018 edition

I watched as factories in Indiana closed during the oil crisis/recession in the 70s, only to move to the non-union south, and later offshore.

Have a friend who is a lifer at Cummins. He’s two tiers or more above younger cow-orkers, in terms of pay and bennies that have been reduced or eliminated. Still, not a bad place to w*rk...
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Old 11-29-2018, 11:04 AM   #29
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This is a fine example of what's wrong with our country.
Curious:

Are you mourning the loss of good benefits, or are you suggesting that they were too generous to begin with.

Your comment is a bit ambiguous -- perhaps it was intentional?
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Old 11-29-2018, 11:12 AM   #30
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If one believes the news, the job market is terrific so these people won't have trouble finding jobs.
I am a skeptic.

I worked at Packard Electric --- now merged into Delphi --- after graduate school. My classmate in graduate school is now with GM in Germany.
Some high level manager. He's worked with General Motors his entire career.

Holiday time is a horrible time to be laid off.
Not that there ever is a good time.


But most of those jobs are in retail, construction, and high tech. I would think someone with 10-20 years in a union assembly line job will not find a job with the pay and benefits. Even if they are willing to take a 50% cut the working conditions will be unlike anything they are used to seeing. Almost all layoffs happen this time of the year so they can close out all the severance accruals into the current year and the next year will start with the savings.
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Old 11-29-2018, 11:42 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmallCityDave
This is a fine example of what's wrong with our country.
Curious:

Are you mourning the loss of good benefits, or are you suggesting that they were too generous to begin with.

Your comment is a bit ambiguous -- perhaps it was intentional?
I'm curious as well. The country?

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Old 11-29-2018, 01:02 PM   #32
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Curious:

Are you mourning the loss of good benefits, or are you suggesting that they were too generous to begin with.

Your comment is a bit ambiguous -- perhaps it was intentional?

Neither really I find it interesting that he is offered a buyout and he doesn't think it's good enough.


I live in a different world.... when my employer can't afford to keep me he cuts me loose, maybe he lets me stay on for a couple of weeks working while I look for a new job.


This guy "seems" to very entitled (perhaps I'm reading too much into it) - "the package isn't particularly generous, there's no offering of GM health insurance until he's 65, no bump in pension".

Maybe that's why GM can't get ahead, they deal with the unions and paying people not to work.
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Old 11-29-2018, 01:13 PM   #33
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“What is good for the country is good for General Motors—and vice versa,” pronounced proud Charlie Wilson, the former GM chief who became secretary of defense to President Eisenhower. With GM down to the current employment levels, not nearly as relevant today.

A little off topic:

A peek back at the Flint Plant about 80 years ago . Some Robotics, even back then.

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Old 11-29-2018, 02:43 PM   #34
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I agree that 6 months is pretty generous. Where I worked when there was a voluntary RIF package it was 1 weeks pay per year of service, with a maximum of 26 weeks paid out. No extra pension increase or health insurance coverage. The only advantage (if you call it that) was if you were involuntary RIF'd, you were eligible to get unemployment. Voluntary RIF was not able to get unemployment. Same layoff benefits for voluntary or involuntary.
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Old 11-29-2018, 04:10 PM   #35
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WRT your comment, I disagree. In prior years, no one hired ex-cons. No one. The labor shortage is creating new paradigms regarding who to recruit.
I disagree. My FIL has "had" to use ex-cons for years in his construction business. It wasn't a way to get cheap labor or a way to "screw them over"; instead they generally were/are good employees when the "man off the street" couldn't be bothered to show up on time -- if at all. Several of those ex-cons are now project managers in the company and are thriving. So, your generalization is just that.
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Old 11-29-2018, 04:30 PM   #36
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When I was sent home in 2008, I had to pay about $450 per month for my full healthcare package and my wife's Medicare Supplement. The good news was that I had a Retiree Health Savings Account that had enough $ to pay those premiums from age 58 1/2 to 64 3/4 years of age. So it was a washout essentially.

I was always salaried in my 36 1/2 years, and I was very thankful for the UAW contract terms and salary increases that company white collar workers received even though we were not paying dues.

I was reading the other day how one car factory had about 185 huge robots used to move parts around, weld and paint. Instead of assembling cars, people are now used to do maintenance on those robots. Our local community college has a huge robot technician training building, and I'm sure the new Mazda-Toyota factory 8 miles away is going to really need them.
Great point. Me too!
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Old 11-29-2018, 05:44 PM   #37
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I agree that 6 months is pretty generous. Where I worked when there was a voluntary RIF package it was 1 weeks pay per year of service, with a maximum of 26 weeks paid out. No extra pension increase or health insurance coverage. The only advantage (if you call it that) was if you were involuntary RIF'd, you were eligible to get unemployment. Voluntary RIF was not able to get unemployment. Same layoff benefits for voluntary or involuntary.
I think it is a generous package also. Look at the poor folks in retail, the Toy'R US folks got no severance. (The private equity firms eventually gave them like 25% of what Toy'R US had promised)

My friend got laid off from a Lockheed subsidiary and despite more than 30 years got only 26 weeks and no health care than Cobra. Others laid off from ARM and GE got lower than 6 months, GE was generous only because my friend had been there for less than 5 years. ARMs was also 1 week per year, and outplacement help.


But overall making RIFs, with plenty of advance notice, letting people transfer to other factories, and most importantly doing so when unemployment is at record lows, instead of during the depths of a recession is about as humane a way of handing layoff as I could imagine.
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Old 11-29-2018, 05:47 PM   #38
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Neither really I find it interesting that he is offered a buyout and he doesn't think it's good enough.


I live in a different world.... when my employer can't afford to keep me he cuts me loose, maybe he lets me stay on for a couple of weeks working while I look for a new job.


This guy "seems" to very entitled (perhaps I'm reading too much into it) - "the package isn't particularly generous, there's no offering of GM health insurance until he's 65, no bump in pension".

Maybe that's why GM can't get ahead, they deal with the unions and paying people not to work.
Thanks for clarifying!

As I mentioned in an earlier post, within the company, the "buyout offers" were not that good, in that they were no better than the standard severance that would be given if the company initiated an involuntary separation.

Of course this may be way better than what is offered by other employers. But the salaries may be different too. Got to look at Total Compensation (ie direct pay PLUS value of benefits).

-gauss
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Old 11-29-2018, 06:57 PM   #39
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Got to look at Total Compensation (ie direct pay PLUS value of benefits).

At x-mega-corp they defined Total Compensation to include such things as the pride you feel because you work for them. I was never sure just how to format that on the spreadsheet.
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Old 11-29-2018, 07:11 PM   #40
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A peek back at the Flint Plant about 80 years ago . Some Robotics, even back then.


Thanks for posting that. Even in 1936 so much of that was automated. Very interesting.
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