Reminder About 40 & 60W Bulbs Going Away in Jan.

[samclem]

Seems like most of our tenants don't really bother changing bulbs - I find it weird that people will live in a place as it gets darker and darker, but it's not uncommon to replace 10 bulbs in a one bedroom apartment at move-out.

Maybe they use the bulbs until they burn out, keep them somewhere while they use good CFLs/LEDs that they bought, then put your old bulbs back when they move out? I sure wouldn't leave my landlord an LED bulb that I'd bought.

 

[timo2]

Yes, it's really insulting and arrogant to be told that someone in far off Washington D.C. can make a better decision than I can about what light bulb I put in what socket in my house. How many legislators could even give an accurate definition of a 'watt' or a 'lumen'? What's next, are they going to mandate our AA and WR?

-ERD50

The powers that be want to build fewer power plants, and this is part of their plan. That's a good goal, actually.

The first incandescent light was created only in 1802 but wasn't improved enough for commercial use until 1880. Not that long ago in the scheme of things. Don't take electric light for granted.

 

[lemming]

Do you take your burnt out CFLs back to HomeDepot. ? I went in with some,plus two long fluorescents . One guy said no they didn't take them
then someone else said ok and put them behind the counter.
Hope they didn't end up in the dumpster.

 

[Katsmeow]

I don't really like having them banned either. I realize that for reasons of safety some products need to be banned or regulated but I think this wasn't one that needed to be banned.

That said - I don't think I have any incandescents left. It is all either CFLs or LEDs. I much prefer the LEDs and am slowly replacing CFLs with LEDs.

 

[Bestwifeever]

We only have one cfl bulb in our house that was a giveaway from the electric company, I think. DH just keeps buying regular old light bulbs as needed. He is going to be in for a surprise soon when he can't find any. The cfl that we do have, in a lamp near our front door, is probably not strong enough so it always seems too dim.

We do have some LED bulbs in a new bathroom fixture and a new little chandelier in our kitchen. I like the light from those.

I think we will probably just skip over the cfl stage (like we missed several generations of countertop surfaces in the 35 years it took us to redo our kitchen) and go straight to LEDs when DH can no longer find incandescents.

 

[calmloki]

Maybe they use the bulbs until they burn out, keep them somewhere while they use good CFLs/LEDs that they bought, then put your old bulbs back when they move out? I sure wouldn't leave my landlord an LED bulb that I'd bought.

Could be - I notice that CFLs that I put in areas I want light all the time for the tenants tend to disappear, sometimes showing back up in tenant's apartments after they move out, often in ugly inappropriate places. Feels like most of our tenants wouldn't buy a light bulb, much less a CFL.

 

[easysurfer]

I've pretty much switched over to mostly LED, then CFL.

 

[Zip605]

My house has a dimmer that ramps up to the desire brightness when you turn it on, and ramps down when you turn it off. With CFLs, the bulb just oscillated between on and off. I looked up the specs on the dimmer and it must have a load of 40w or more. CFLs and LEDs are not going to work, at least with this particular brand/model of dimmer.

 

[ERD50]

My house has a dimmer that ramps up to the desire brightness when you turn it on, and ramps down when you turn it off. With CFLs, the bulb just oscillated between on and off. I looked up the specs on the dimmer and it must have a load of 40w or more. CFLs and LEDs are not going to work, at least with this particular brand/model of dimmer.

I have a timer that is similar, it replaces the wall switch for my porch lights, and it needs to have a resistive load (a standard bulb is resistive, others are not) to keep the timer going while the lights are 'off'. Essentially, a little trickle current through the 'off' bulb filament drives the timer. Since there are multiple lights on that timer, I just keep one with a standard bulb in it. You might be able to do this, or just replace the dimmer with a newer type.

The powers that be want to build fewer power plants, and this is part of their plan. That's a good goal, actually.

And if that is the goal, there are far better ways to go about it than to micro-manage my light bulb selection. I've got a report from the utility company that shows I'm in the lowest quintile of electric users in my neighborhood. I'm less than half the average, and it appears that that top quintile is using roughly 4x what I am. I think I'm doing OK w/o any 'help' and with a bunch of ancient bulbs in a bunch of low-use sockets.

The first incandescent light was created only in 1802 but wasn't improved enough for commercial use until 1880. Not that long ago in the scheme of things. Don't take electric light for granted.

I'm not sure what the timing has to do with it. The most modern car still has wheels, and uses screws and other very old developments. Bottom line is that a standard, cheap incandescent makes a lot of sense for some applications. So I use them there.

-ERD50

 

[ERD50]

One added comment to this stupid ban. It has actually stymied innovation.

Light bulb manufacturers developed an improved incandescent. However, it isn't profitable to bring them to market, because they couldn't get their ROI before even tighter laws went into effect (they are better, but not as efficient as CFL/LED). So consumers were deprived of a better bulb for those places where incandescent might be the best choice.

Instead, some people will use those legal 'rough service' bulbs, which are even less efficient than standard incandescent bulbs.

I guess that's progress?


-ERD50

 

[Midpack]

Lots of "generalizations" in the OP...I'd enjoy seeing data to corroborate some of those claims.

Beginning many years ago, we converted every bulb we could in our house to CFL (appliances the notable exception), and recently put one LED flood in our kitchen to see how we like it. After realizing that the really cheap CFLs did not quite live up their published average life numbers, we started buying brand name CFLs and we've been very pleased with the lower total cost with CFLs. The CFL in our master closet (probably our first) lasted 11 years before it died.

Here is a comparison using all comparable GE low cost versions (Home Depot pricing), using all their published data assuming 15,000 hours use - trying for apples to apples. We don't miss incandescent bulbs at all, and we really like the one LED in our kitchen A LOT, there will be more in our future as they do come on quicker and provide "nicer" light in our view. YMMV

GE Description|Watts|Life|Qty Used|Cost ea|KWH $|KWH Used|Bulb Cost|Electricity| Total Cost |Breakeven *
Dbl Life 60W Soft White Incand 6-pk|60|2000|7.5|$0.73|$0.10|900|$5.46|$90.00| $95.46 |na
Gen Purp 15W Soft White CFL 2-pk|15|8000|1.875|$4.99|$0.10|225|$9.35|$22.50| $31.85| @950 hrs
Reveal 11W A19 LED|11|15000|1|$13.97|$0.10|165|$13.97|$16.50| $30.47 |@2700 hrs

* Where full cost of (more expensive CFL/LED) bulb is offset by savings in electricity. It's not necessary (at all) to outlive the bulb...

And there are many exceptions re: incandescents that will still be available (presumably until there are suitable replacements eventually)...

There are 22 types of traditional incandescent lamps that are exempt. DOE will monitor sales of these exempted lamp types after the legislation is implemented. If it is determined that of any one of these exempted lamp types doubles in sales, EISA requires DOE to establish an energy conservation standard for the particular lamp type. This provision will prohibit any one of these exempted lamp types from taking market share from the general service lamps that are affected by the EISA efficiency standards.

• Appliance lamp
• Black light lamp
• Bug lamp
• Colored lamp
• Infrared lamp
• Left-hand thread lamp
• Marine lamp
• Marine's signal service lamp
• Mine service lamp
• Plant light lamp
• Reflector lamp
• Rough service lamp
• Shatter-resistant lamp (including shatter-proof & shatter-protected)
• Sign service lamp
• Silver bowl lamp
• Showcase lamp
• 3-way incandescent lamp
• Traffic signal lamp
• Vibration service lamp
• G shape lamp (as defined in ANSI C78.20-2003 and C79.1-2002) with a diameter of 5" or more
• T shape lamp (as defined in ANSI C78.20-2003 and C79.1-2002) and that uses no more than 40W or has a length of more than 10"
• B, BA, CA, F, G16-1/2, G-25, G-30, S, or M-14 lamp (as defined in ANSI C78.20-2003 and C79.1-2002) of 40W or less

 

[ERD50]

Lots of "generalizations" in the OP...I'd enjoy seeing data to corroborate some of those claims. ...

What specifically don't you agree with in the OP? Did he 'generalize'? He said that the CFLs/LEDs are good for some uses.

Your chart is exactly why I have CFLs in most of my high use sockets.

But I just did a quick count (and I know I missed some), and I have easily 30 sockets that are on for only a few minutes per week, some of those are closets and attic, almost never on.

And about 30 more that are on for minutes at a time a few times a day (hall, bathroom, some bedroom lights). If I'm really generous and say those 60 are on an average of 6M/day, that's 26 years to hit your 950 hour break even, longer than I expect to live in this house. And I'd be out $240 to fill all those sockets (now add in $9.60/year opportunity cost at 4%!).

Some of those could be served with a legal , lower eff% 'rough service' bulb (not all, in closet you might want a whiter light). But those 4x a regular bulb. That's not a lot of dollars, but it's aggravating to be mandated what I can and can't put in he sockets in my house when I've made an educated determination for myself. Doesn't the govt have better things to do?

A sI mentioned earlier, my electric bill is among the lowest in the neighborhood. And I do that with an electric clothes dryer (gas is more typical), I've got an old extra refrigerator and an old extra freezer running, and they are of the vintage that every article says you should get rid of, and utilities may pay to take away. But they only use a few $ per month more than the new ones - or maybe less, since I don't have ice-makers attached (which are not included in the utility cost of refrigerators!). And I generally avoid 'high efficiency' appliances, as the extra cost/complexity does not make sense for me.

Rather than the govt telling me how to save energy and making me pay more for things I don't want , maybe they should pay me to show other people how to save energy?

-ERD50

 

[JPatrick]

Have a very impressive stash of Reveal bulbs in all sizes, most of which have doubled in cost over the past 18 months or so. Figure if i could sell them at current retail I could afford that beach home and a bunch of candles.
Meanwhile, they live in the attic next to my two Beta Max VCR's I tucked away.

 

[Marita40]

Thanks for the reminder. I stocked up awhile back but am going to reinforce the pile.

 

[Bestwifeever]

Have a very impressive stash of Reveal bulbs in all sizes, most of which have doubled in cost over the past 18 months or so. Figure if i could sell them at current retail I could afford that beach home and a bunch of candles. Meanwhile, they live in the attic next to my two Beta Max VCR's I tucked away.

The Reveals are awesome light bulbs. Maybe there is an LED equivalent.

ETA: why yes there are:

GE Reveal Light Bulbs | GE Lighting North America
www.gelighting.com/LightingWeb/na/.../highlights/reveal/light-bulbs/
GE reveal® LED bulbs illuminate a color enhanced spectrum of light with the added benefits of long-life, up to 80% energy savings compared to incandescent ...

 

[veremchuka]

I stocked up on 100 watt bulbs and have enough to last my life if I live to 90. I have some 40 and 60 watts but only use them in a closet and after 14 years the originals are still working.

I use 1 soft white CFL (NEVER buy day light they are ghastly blue) of the highest wattage where it burns for several hours each evening in winter and doesn't add more heat to the location is summer. Other than that 1 CFL they can toss all the CFL's into the ocean as far as I care.

 

[calmloki]

GE introduces 'hybrid' bulb with both halogen and CFL elements, instant-on meets efficiency

"instant on" CFL that uses a tiny halogen bulb as a transition, powering off as the CFL comes up. Sure these won't cost much/bulb.....

Home Despot has 60W bulbs for about $0.32/bulb, really need to pick up another 10-20 packs or so.

 

[travelover]

...............Home Despot has 60W bulbs for about $0.32/bulb, really need to pick up another 10-20 packs or so.

Reminds me of back in the 1980's when another, older engineer said he was buying a new truck right away because all future models would have electronic engine controls and he wanted to be sure to get a new one before he got stuck with an undependable, computerized vehicle.

 

[lrak]

My guess is a furnace is quite a bit more efficient than a light bulb for heating...

I grew up with electric baseboard heat. Never got yelled at for leaving the lights on in the winter.

Here is a comparison using all comparable GE low cost versions (Home Depot pricing), using all their published data assuming 15,000 hours use - trying for apples to apples. We don't miss incandescent bulbs at all, and we really like the one LED in our kitchen A LOT, there will be more in our future as they do come on quicker and provide "nicer" light in our view. YMMV

GE Description|Watts|Life|Qty Used|Cost ea|KWH $|KWH Used|Bulb Cost|Electricity| Total Cost |Breakeven *
Dbl Life 60W Soft White Incand 6-pk|60|2000|7.5|$0.73|$0.10|900|$5.46|$90.00| $95.46 |na
Gen Purp 15W Soft White CFL 2-pk|15|8000|1.875|$4.99|$0.10|225|$9.35|$22.50| $31.85| @950 hrs
Reveal 11W A19 LED|11|15000|1|$13.97|$0.10|165|$13.97|$16.50| $30.47 |@2700 hrs

* Where full cost of (more expensive CFL/LED) bulb is offset by savings in electricity. It's not necessary (at all) to outlive the bulb...

In my bathroom fixture that uses four 60w bulbs, I generally run two CFL and two incandescent. The BEST CFL bulbs I've tried lasts a couple weeks longer than the incandescent. Most don't last as long. The short on/off cycles kill CFLs in no time. The CFLs in my living room that are on for 4-8 hours a day last longer.

 

[Al in Ohio]

Actually I prefer CFL bulbs in hallways and closets most. I get good quality ones that get up to full lumins fast. When on I don't mind as much if the wife or kids forget to turn them off since they are such low wattage.

 

[calmloki]

I.....
In my bathroom fixture that uses four 60w bulbs, I generally run two CFL and two incandescent. The BEST CFL bulbs I've tried lasts a couple weeks longer than the incandescent. Most don't last as long. The short on/off cycles kill CFLs in no time. The CFLs in my living room that are on for 4-8 hours a day last longer.

In the apartments we've found that mixing CFL and incandescent kills the CFLs - particularly in enclosed units. The CFLs don't do well with high heat. The twisty bulbs also seem to do less well in base up applications. I'll just keep plugging in the cheap bulbs where I don't pay for the juice and can't control the use.

 

[BigNick]

I grew up with electric baseboard heat. Never got yelled at for leaving the lights on in the winter.

Yes, that was my point. If your heating is run on electricity, light and non-light heat cost the same. A 100W light bulb gets you 99.9W or so of heat, with only a few photons flying out of the window. But clearly a gas, oil, or wood furnace is a cheaper way to purchase kilojoules/BTUs.

I don't know how many American homes have electric heating, but quite a few European ones do, especially in southern Europe where they have shorter heating seasons and may not install a complete boiler-and radiators system. Logically, homes in those countries ought probably to use American-style forced-air systems that can double as air conditioning, but A/C in houses is still rare in Europe. (A few years back, we owned probably the only house in France with forced-air heating within a 50-mile radius; the owner had spent time in the US and decided he wanted this in his house, although he never got round to adding A/C either.)

 

[NW-Bound]

I adopted CFLs early, going so far back I cannot remember. Got to, as I live in a place where it reaches 120F (49C) in the summer, and the electric usage reaches 140KWhr/day. Can't afford to heat the house anymore than I have to. I already built an outside counter/electric cooktop in the covered patio for summer cooking to avoid heating up the interior of the house.

The early CFLs had a greenish-yellowish tint, but I endured it for the reason stated above. Newer ones, I have no problem with. Old ones did not last long either. Newer ones have been there for 3-4 years.

I have not bought any LED for the home, but might try one to see what it's like. The price is down to $11 for some kind of bulbs, from some web info.

I did convert most lights inside my motorhome to LEDs, by buying the LED capsules on eBay and making my own heatsink assembly and driver electronics with dimming circuit to fit inside existing light fixtures. Cost was $4 for each LED capsule (10W, in an array of 3x3 LED elements), and around $5 for electronics. That was 3 years ago. This was so I could boondock.

I just looked on eBay, and the price of a 10W LED capsule (the size of your thumbnail) is now down to $1.50 (single qty.) with free shipping. Output is 800-900 lumens, which is about the same as a 60W incandescent bulb. These things are getting cheaper quickly.

 

[NW-Bound]

Darn, my memory is shot! It was only in early 2012 when I did the homebrew LED lights for my motorhome. The post is here.

And I paid $6 for each LED capsule assembly then, which is now $1.50.

 

[BTravlin]

I just finished replacing all of my CFL ceiling can lights with LED units and love them. Bought them from LED Waves and they were simple to install and put out beautiful light. They are expensive at $66 each but are supposed to last about 40,000 hours which is over 4.5 years of constant use.

I hate the CFL bulbs in regular lamps as they just don't seem to last as long as advertised even though I'm buying the name brand. Here in Mexico there are virtually no regular bulbs sold.