Resistance to hard work - vent - question

[KenZ71]

The 80 / 20 rule comes to mind, covers a lot of bases.

I have some family members who whine all day about their hardships but yet they have newest phones, TVs, etc. Others just quietly push through and build up their lives.

 

[aja8888]

OP, be glad you are not related to my stepchildren. DW had a threesome that have not accomplished anything measurable in their four decades of being on this planet. I really don't think any of this was her fault as she has solid morals, worked hard all her life and is a great wife.

Believe me, I am not making the following up...it's true.

Stepson: 50 years old. Unemployable, has a "few" DUI's and a "few" years in the big house. Currently living with his ex-wife facepalm and complaining he is not treated as well as his sisters. He is complaining to his mother (my DW). I have no idea what this guy does all day long.

Stepdaughter #1 (twin to stepdaughter #2): 49 years old. 5 years ago divorces husband as she found a "new love". Just walks out with no money/stuff/skills/etc. We paid for the lawyer and she got zip. Once her new flame figured out she is hooked on pain pills and other stuff, he boots her out. This takes about a year. Year two she moves in with us (DW and I). I find her a job....actually a few of them. She smashes up 4 used cars in 4 years. Currently, she is living with her dad in San Antonio and is trying to get on "disability", but getting rejected. I hear she wants to move back to Houston and live with us, but I am against it. This story will be continued.

Stepdaughter #2: 49 years old (twin): In and out of jobs and relationships for 30?? years and finally hooks up with a Trust Fund Baby (member of the renowned Lucky Sperm Club). Neither works, or has worked in years. But he gets a load of money from Dad's trust fund every three months. A few years ago, they ran off to Alaska for two years and deposited her 16 year old daughter from a previous relationship with us to raise. That was fun. The Alaska thing was a two year "party". They are back and we don't see them much. Good thing.

My daughter from my previous marriage seems to have it figured out as she got thru college, has a job, and owns here home free and clear at 37 years old.

At least one out of four are doing OK.

 

[FUEGO]

Stepdaughter #2: 49 years old (twin): In and out of jobs and relationships for 30?? years and finally hooks up with a Trust Fund Baby (member of the renowned Lucky Sperm Club). Neither works, or has worked in years. But he gets a load of money from Dad's trust fund every three months. A few years ago, they ran off to Alaska for two years and deposited her 16 year old daughter from a previous relationship with us to raise. That was fun. The Alaska thing was a two year "party". They are back and we don't see them much. Good thing.

I don't see the problem with stepdaughter #2. She seems to have found a wonderful early retirement and a full time nanny to boot.

 

[aja8888]

I don't see the problem with stepdaughter #2. She seems to have found a wonderful early retirement and a full time nanny to boot.

That whole "fun life" with a Trust Fund Baby can blow up in a heartbeat. Apparently, she is number #3 in that position, but all is OK (for now).

 

[travelover]

They can do what they want as long as they stay the hell off my lawn.

 

[brewer12345]

They can do what they want as long as they stay the hell off my lawn.

That has pretty much become my attitude. Worse comes to worst, I live in a "make my day" state...

 

[mamadogmamacat]

I think it is just your perception. There will always be lazy people and those who try to game the system, nothing new there. From my vantage point, most people I know are good honest and hard working folks doing the best they can.

Definitely agree with this.
Good hardworking people make mistakes and miss obvious opportunities to save/invest all the time. But it is not, based on my conversations with them and attempts to give info/advice, out of laziness really, but only out of ignorance, lack of good example in family/friends, and trepidation, especially for those for whom, as many have said "math is hard"

 

[Senator]

After being a landlord for many years, I say you are 100% correct.

The sad thing about it is that these people who are not working are supposed to be the generation that pays for my SS.

Let's hope the demographic predictions are wrong.

 

[thefamilytruckster]

There's a chasm full of high quality disenfranchised people that simply don't have the resources to get anything remotely resembling financial independence. Good grades in college doesn't cut it anymore. You also need some good luck or access to an outside influence to end up in an rewarding career track. Maybe it was always this way, but the competition in post-college career tracks is getting crowded. Last time I interviewed for an engineer, we had a pool of over 50 highly qualified candidates for one $35k entry-level job.

 

[Scuba]

I have learned the quality of my serenity is inversely proportional to the expectations I place upon others.

Well said. My mother-in-law advised me years ago that acceptance is the key to serenity, and I’ve found it to be a good practice to let go of my expectations of others. While I agree that many people don’t seem to take personal responsibility for their lives, I just try to focus on making myself the best person I can be. The victims can whine all they want about their horrible situations. I’m grateful that I’m not usually like that and when I occasionally feel a “pity party” starting for some unfortunate happening in my life, I try to focus on the positive.

 

[Ronnieboy]

OP: I agree!

I have seen quite a bit also. I w*rk in a position where I can see low income people on medicaid complain about their $2 copay on their 15 prescriptions while idling in their Lexus at the drive thru.

I hear stories from a co worker who has an aunt on disability, getting a check every month because she developed anxiety from using illegal drugs a number of years ago and cannot work. I couldn't believe that the government will pay someone a couple grand a month because they cannot work for something self inflicted.

My own daughter can't hold down job for longer than two weeks and gets food stamps, but is too lazy to listen to the educational program to get WIC food coupons. Some excuses I have been told?? We don't drink a lot of milk, we can't use that many eggs, we don't like the kind of cereal that you are allowed to get....WHAT?? are you freakin' serious??

I think my blood pressure is going up just repeating this.....

But I have learned to just "Let it go" as Elsa would sing. Maybe that person driving the Lexus actually has the medicaid for the kids they are foster parenting. Would I want to live the same way as the lady who gets disability for not being able to work? I know for a fact that I don't want to live the same way as DD and her live in. It is just heart breaking to see the dear grandchild be brought up that situation. But as noted previously you can't tell them what to do....

I actually thought DD was gleaning some experience to how she lives when she was complaining to me about how they had been letting some friends of theirs live with them for a whole month and they didn't offer to help with rent, utilities, food, wash dishes, not a single thing....I said with a smile on my face, "sounds familiar"

 

[target2019]

My favorite story of complaining was an incident reported by my daughter in high school. Seems the high school gym teacher went off on a rant. Her point was that the teachers did not make much at all, and the parents had better vote for the controversial school budget.

I showed my daughter how to look up public employees' salaries. Daughter then brought up the make of teacher's car, her summer home at the shore, the town where they lived, and husband's job as a principal in one of the wealthiest districts in the state. It was a teachable moment.

 

[DEC-1982]

Isn't it a rite of passage for the elder generation to bag on the subsequent one? I know that my parents and grandparents did.

Exactly what I was thinking.

 

[Gumby]

I am wryly amused by rants about others not working hard on a forum devoted to the prospect of not working at all.

 

[iloveyoga]

Funny videos!!

 

[rayinpenn]

Is it just my perception - or has there been an increase the past few years in people not valuing hard work and building a career, saving and investing, not over-spending and basically doing what it takes to ensure a successful retirement later on?.

workburout you run with the wrong crowd.
I want to share a secret with you... You get it. Plenty of young people still get it. I work with them 4 days a week and most are very hard working. My younger colleagues went through a pretty rigorous interview process to get hired. We only recruit from certain colleagues and you’ll need a B+ average to even get an interview. Yes even amongst the cream there are those that have not figured it out, but will eventually (I was one) and there are sadly too many of those that will never figure it out.

Even for my educated colleagues It starts with the little things: They built a beautiful Starbucks on the first floor of my building. I think the cheapest cup of coffee is around $2.50. I had it once when it was raining too hard to walk to Dunkin. It very trendy to sit ,chat and have a $4 cup of chocolate mocha java and with a $4 blueberry muffin. (I can means for that scene but a life time of thrift will make that coffee bitter - plus all that darn sugar). I discovered with an Artic travel mug (the Yeti was to pricey) I can walk into the office with warm cup of coffee that the Mrs. buys on sale. Maybe it cost me 30 cents. My mind says $4, 5 days a week for 48 weeks a year is roughly a grand a year. Over the next 20 years if they throw it into the market that averages 8% they’ll have a $45,000 nest egg. It all takes discipline, time and a plan. Yeah its just a cup of coffee and not a problem if you are doing everything else right - but how many are?

A 40 year old colleague of mine came into a modest inheritance and asked for advise on how to invest. I sit next to him and he’s heard my vocal enthusiasm for investing. I took him through the process of opening a brokerage account then I reluctantly picked some low cost dividend ETFs. He told me a few days ago “I told my wife its up $18,000... can that be right?” “Yes Joe it is right.” We’ve had the whole conversation about long term money and inevitable market dips .. My hope is it registered. But for a guy with a business degree I have to ask myself how do you know so little?

My point in all this is
1. Someone had to tell you (e.g. parents, instructor, Dave Ramsey) or you had to read it and it had to stick.
2. You have to have the discipline to act on it
3. You have to recognize that working hard isn’t enough you have to work and live smart. By living smart I mean abstaining from the ‘bling’.
Oh and how easy it is to fall under the spell of bling. Stuff oh how I hate it but thats another rant.

Yeah the future managing directors will find every excuse to work until the middle of the night. The really smart ones will find balance, LBYM build a good bye pile and be exceedily happy.

Im pretty sure my ‘bring my lunch’ daughter’s got it. I helped her do her first electronic trade into a short term fund on Friday. I bought her a couple of books on investing that posters on this forum suggested.

Remember I said you have to learn it from someone. I told the son 3.2 GPA or I yank him from college and he can go to the Local Penn State. I explained lower than that and you wont even get an interview.
It is a hard cruel world out there...

 

[TimeMeasure]

I think it is just your perception. There will always be lazy people and those who try to game the system, nothing new there. From my vantage point, most people I know are good honest and hard working folks doing the best they can.

Subjectively, this is my sense as well. But I’m keenly aware that there are limits to our knowledge. We only know what we’ve come in contact with. It would be interesting if there were a reliable way of measuring the actual prevalence of attitudes in one generation vs. others.

But I would add this:

Almost everyone in the general population is aware that money is a limited resource. In this forum, many people have realized that time is also a limited resource, that life is finite, and that it’s worth planning for being able to spend some of that time with as much freedom and self-determination as possible.

But attention, consciousness if you will, is also a limited resource. In a given day, a third or so is spent on sleep. More hours are spent focusing one’s attention on necessary details of daily life: cooking, eating, shopping, etc. Even if one is retired, the number of hours, or minutes, in which one can focus one’s attention on purely discretionary matters, is limited, and it is also a choice. How one chooses influences the quality of one’s life. There will always be annoyances, but trying to minimize the amount of attention one devotes to resenting annoyances, and maximizing the attention one devotes to what is good, can improve the quality of one’s limited lifespan.

Easier said than done. Am just as irritated as anyone by matters over which, realistically, there is no control. But in the background, as a kind of lodestone, are the closing words of Candide: Let us cultivate our garden.

 

[Aerides]

There's a chasm full of high quality disenfranchised people that simply don't have the resources to get anything remotely resembling financial independence. Good grades in college doesn't cut it anymore. You also need some good luck or access to an outside influence to end up in an rewarding career track. Maybe it was always this way, but the competition in post-college career tracks is getting crowded. Last time I interviewed for an engineer, we had a pool of over 50 highly qualified candidates for one $35k entry-level job.

EXACTLY! The environment in which most of us started or even finished careers, is vastly different today than it was even just 20 years ago. And all those 50 candidates have thousands in student loans because college is 35k per year. Non-college starting jobs are competitive for $10-$12 (I started at $8 in 1990, that should be $15 today - it's not even close, and that job is no longer in the US, offshored a decade ago).

Still think they are whining? They were raised by us, or our children, so it didn't come from nowhere...

 

[Maenad]

I have found no method to turn a slacker into a hard worker if they don't want to. I have had to work with a couple of those slackers when they've been forced to get a job for one reason or another, and it's torture.

I'd honestly rather have my taxes go to support them - then I don't actually have to interact with them on a daily basis.

 

[joeea]

I am wryly amused by rants about others not working hard on a forum devoted to the prospect of not working at all.

LOL!

 

[John Galt III]

OP, I think it's been that way since the 70's. Welfare participant driving the brand new SUV, etc. Disability scams all over the place. Running up credit card debt and defaulting, preplanned. And on and on and on. ...sigh....

 

[calmloki]

I rent inexpensive housing and have for decades. Was renting 53 units at the top. I have yet to rent to the mythical Lexus driving welfare recipient. They just don't seem to be among the applicants for our places. I have never felt any jealousy for the lives of my tenants.

 

[John Galt III]

I think there are still pockets of people in the U.S. whose ethics prevent them from abusing the social benefits system. Among some poor communities there is still a big stigma to being on any welfare program.

 

[MRG]

I rent inexpensive housing and have for decades. Was renting 53 units at the top. I have yet to rent to the mythical Lexus driving welfare recipient. They just don't seem to be among the applicants for our places. I have never felt any jealousy for the lives of my tenants.

+1
Never seen one either. I see more people w*rking multiple jobs, living with multiple roommates.

Perhaps we see what we expect to see?

At one time in my life I worked with a bunch of folks who were one step above homeless(some were homeless). They didn't drive nice cars, have credit or anything else. They were people who tried and lacked some skills, some life handed a bad deal to.

I recall one guy who didn't have the mental capacity to move a board from one pile to another. It wasn't for lack of effort, the man was so upset by his inability to do the job, he stood there and lost his bladder. Yeah, there for both the grace of God goes me, or anyone here.

 

[FUEGO]

My own daughter can't hold down job for longer than two weeks and gets food stamps, but is too lazy to listen to the educational program to get WIC food coupons. Some excuses I have been told?? We don't drink a lot of milk, we can't use that many eggs, we don't like the kind of cereal that you are allowed to get....WHAT?? are you freakin' serious??

That WIC stuff is pretty complicated. We were most likely eligible for a year or two once I quit working (the eligibility is pretty liberal if you have a kid under 5). ZERO chance I would ever spend all that time to get some tiny benefit. My much less wealthy brother in law came to the same conclusion and eventually gave up on the WIC program.