Retirement Police Poll

[Sojourner]

"As long as the work is enjoyable, at your leisure, and the extra cash is nice but not needed, then that's Retired."

I was thinking of voting for this one in the poll, but then I thought of my ex-boss. He's easily worth 9 figures, yet he still goes into the office every day, works at least 40-50 hours per week, enjoys the work, and his salary is certainly "nice but not needed." There is no way he'd ever call himself retired, and no one else who works with him or knows him would either.

To me, you're retired when you've made a conscious choice to step away from working a steady job in order to enjoy your remaining days in a leisurely way.

 

[ncbill]

...To me, you're retired when you've made a conscious choice to step away from working a steady job in order to enjoy your remaining days in a leisurely way.

+1000

A close relative retired from their day job ~25 years ago, thanks to a modest (but COLA) pension with full health coverage.

Then did the traveling they wanted but have come back home as they slowed down.

Currently he "works" in the basement fixing up locally-acquired items to sell online, using whatever money made for donations to the charities he supports.

 

[scrabbler1]

How about this as a possible exception to the "greater than a fig" clause in the 8th poll choice: Anything you do which generates money but only if there is no contractual agreement to be paid (as in volunteer work where the other party throws a few bucks at you afterward, or if a friend throws a few bucks at you for helping him or her out). This would make Sojourner's ex-boss not retired. But Bingybear would be retired.

 

[JustCurious]

Except i do believe it helps communication if we have common definitions of words. Or at least appreciate that our definitions differ and are nuanced.

Exactly. Anyone can consider themselves retired in any situation, it's a free country after all and you can think or say anything you want. But, when you communicate with other people it is helpful to have commonly accepted definition of words, otherwise the basis of communication breaks down and I don't think it's reasonable to expect other people to adopt your defintion of a word just because you think that is what it means in your head.

 

[Mdlerth]

I'm embarking on a second career

When I don't have to commute to the sweatshop any more, I will be retired from being an engineer. No more hardhats or steel toed boots.

But since DW won't be punching out until several months after me, I'm not sure whether to identify my new profession as Househusband, Kept Man, Gigolo or Toy Boy. In any case, it will call for a different wardrobe!

 

[W2R]

I love dictionaries. I used to read them sometimes when I was a kid and young teen. Thanks to dictionaries, people do not have to invent definitions for words, nor should they IMO; we already have commonly understood definitions for words. Without commonly understood definitions for words, we cannot truly communicate. This is one reason why dictionaries are so valuable to us.

Now that we are in the age of the World Wide Web, one can find dictionary definitions online too. I just typed in "definition of retired", and got this:

re·tired
rəˈtī(ə)rd/

adjective: retired
1. having left one's job and ceased to work.
"a retired teacher" […]

OK, so what is work? I typed in "definition of work", and got this:

work
wərk/
noun
noun: work; plural noun: works; plural noun: the works
1.
activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result.
"he was tired after a day's work in the fields"
synonyms:
labor, toil, slog, drudgery, exertion, effort, industry, service; More
informalgrind, sweat, elbow grease;
literarytravail
"a day's work in the fields"
antonyms:
leisure, rest
a place or premises for industrial activity, typically manufacturing.
"he found a job in the ironworks"
2.
mental or physical activity as a means of earning income; employment.
"I'm still looking for work"
synonyms:
employment, a job, a position, a situation, a post;

Interesting (to me, anyway).

 

[Major Tom]

Well, it’s not that important. Notice the silly, perhaps even glib, voting choices. Except i do believe it helps communication if we have common definitions of words. Or at least appreciate that our definitions differ and are nuanced.

I do think it's often helpful to have definitions that are commonly agreed on when discussing subjects. I'm not so sure that it's important here, but acknowledge that the poll is light-hearted in nature, as evidenced by the available responses.

I recall a story that Richard Feynman told in his book, "What Do You Care What Other People Think?"


One kid says to me, See that bird? What kind of bird is that?
I said, I haven't the slightest idea what kind of a bird it is.
He says, It's a Brown-throated Thrush. Your father doesn't teach you anything!
But it was the opposite. He had already taught me: See that bird? he says. It's a Spencer's Warbler. (I knew he didn't know the real name.) Well, in Italian, it's a Chutto Lapittida. In Chinese, it's a Chung-long-tah, and in Japanese, it's a Katano Tekeda. You can know the name of that bird in all the languages of the world, but when you're finished, you'll know absolutely nothing whatever about the bird. You'll only know about humans in different places, and what they call the bird. So let's look at the bird and see what it's doing—that's what counts. (I learned very early the difference between knowing the name of something and knowing something.)

I tend to think the same way with retirement, or whatever we choose to call it. As long as you know what lifestyle you want, and where the money will come from to finance it, you are free to call it what you want, because the name is very much incidental. I have a very occasional cat sitting gig, as well as another occasional gig selecting tenants for my landlord. I don't make much money from either pursuit, and don't need it. I don't even like the tenant-selecting gig, but do it to help my landlord. He's not good at finding suitable tenants, and has no-one else he trusts to do it for him. It all adds up to no more than a few hours a month, and I'll often go several months not doing either gig at all. Can I call myself a retiree? Who cares? Not me.


I'm sticking with grilled cheese sandwich

​

Careful!
Using that definition would shut down many of the posts here....

So what do you think a sensible SWR is?

 

[Chuckanut]

For me the main issue is: Do I have to work, to lead the life I want to have?

If, yes, even if it is a part-time low-stress job, then I would not consider myself as retired.

If, I chose to work a part-time low-stress job because it is fun, gives me contact with people I would not otherwise meet, and the extra money was not necessary to the main goals of my retirement, then I think I would consider myself retired.

It's the have to work test that is most important, IMHO. YMMV.

 

[Amethyst]

I only work 16 hours a week (unless you count 12 hours a week in the gym, which often feels like a job!) And I do just what I like at work. It's pretty leisurely, especially compared with the nose-to-grindstone attitude I took during my "working" years. So while I agree with you about your ex-boss, I'm sticking to my contention that I am, in fact, retired, while working a little bit.

I was thinking of voting for this one in the poll, but then I thought of my ex-boss. He's easily worth 9 figures, yet he still goes into the office every day, works at least 40-50 hours per week,
To me, you're retired when you've made a conscious choice to step away from working a steady job in order to enjoy your remaining days in a leisurely way.

 

[eytonxav]

Are you asking me if I am a retired law enforcement officer?

Thats what first came to my mind

 

[kcowan]

I think if you need the money from another pursuit, even if not 9-5, then you are not retired. When I retired 15 years ago, I became an active trader in our portfolio and got good results. Others asked if I would take on their portfolios and I declined, saying that would make it a job rather than a hobby. I am now buy-and-hold for over ten years.

I gave up all the board seats after three years. So it probably took 3 to 5 years to be totally retired. My work with the PV Garden Club is a hobby.

 

[Nature Lover]

For me the main issue is: Do I have to work, to lead the life I want to have?

It's the have to work test that is most important, IMHO. YMMV.

+1.

Not mentioned, but what about "semi-retired"? Does anyone who has taken the part-time, low stress path and is doing some work for $$ (because its fun/fulfilling...but $$ not needed for chosen lifestyle) call themselves "semi-retired"?

Here's what google says about "semi-retired":

sem·i·re·tired
ˌsemērəˈtī(ə)rd,ˌsemīrəˈtīərd/Submit
adjective
adjective: semi-retired

"having retired or withdrawn from employment or an occupation but continuing to work part-time or occasionally."

Just curious.

 

[kevdude]

I left my job 5+ years ago and have always considered myself semi-retired since I manage our rental properties. However that only takes 10-15 hrs per month. We still have kids in school so we go on their schedule anyway so it’s not like we can just pick up and leave if we want anyway.

 

[Amethyst]

To my ear, "semi-retired" sounds as if I couldn't afford to really retire; and leads to questions about "Oh, what do you still do?" When people ask what I do, I just say I'm retired and the questions cease. Then we can move onto more interesting topics.

So, if the question is: The precise term of art for my situation: Semi-retired.
If the question is: What do you tell people? Retired.

+1.

Not mentioned, but what about "semi-retired"? Does anyone who has taken the part-time, low stress path and is doing some work for $$ (because its fun/fulfilling...but $$ not needed for chosen lifestyle) call themselves "semi-retired"?

Here's what google says about "semi-retired":

sem·i·re·tired
ˌsemērəˈtī(ə)rd,ˌsemīrəˈtīərd/Submit
adjective
adjective: semi-retired

"having retired or withdrawn from employment or an occupation but continuing to work part-time or occasionally."

Just curious.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

I don't really care what people call themselves. The thing that bugs me, and makes me wanna show my shiny "Internet Retirement Police" badge (but I don't because people don't care about my opinion) is when folks have blogs with 500,000 daily views, 3 or 4 "side hustles" (but GOD do I hate that term!) or just don't tell the WHOLE story as to what their financial picture REALLY IS and claims to be "retired"... That's annoying.

 

[RunningBum]

There was a recent "Hello" thread where someone said they were retired, and in the next paragraph talked about their job, which I believe was part-time. I didn't mean to be the RP, but I questioned it as it just didn't make sense to me. But note that I didn't push it.

Not having to work means you are FI, not retired. Not working means you are retired. Call yourself what you want, I don't care that much, but if you tell me you are retired but still working, I may not agree. Drawing a paycheck, having to be somewhere or get something done by a certain time, probably means you are still working. I don't know what it takes to be a landlord. If you've got one property, it's probably not much work, but if you've got 10, you're probably always doing something.

Mostly I'm not going to argue what someone calls themselves, but that doens't mean I agree.

 

[Amethyst]

Naturally you want to show your badge, because these are what we call "con artists," who make money by claiming they've been able to retire. Without the blog and hustles, they would not even be financially independent.

I actually started laughin,g because I just got done reading a FB post that clearly implied that "retirees" are old, useless, boring people. I mean, why would anybody want to call themselves a term like that?

I don't really care what people call themselves. The thing that bugs me, and makes me wanna show my shiny "Internet Retirement Police" badge (but I don't because people don't care about my opinion) is when folks have blogs with 500,000 daily views, 3 or 4 "side hustles" (but GOD do I hate that term!) or just don't tell the WHOLE story as to what their financial picture REALLY IS and claims to be "retired"... That's annoying.

 

[MarieIG]

I love dictionaries. I used to read them sometimes when I was a kid and young teen. Thanks to dictionaries, people do not have to invent definitions for words, nor should they IMO; we already have commonly understood definitions for words. Without commonly understood definitions for words, we cannot truly communicate. This is one reason why dictionaries are so valuable to us.

Now that we are in the age of the World Wide Web, one can find dictionary definitions online too. I just typed in "definition of retired", and got this:


OK, so what is work? I typed in "definition of work", and got this:


Interesting (to me, anyway).

I'm attracted to this type of rationale.

 

[cooch96]

I'm attracted to this type of rationale.

But even this dictionary definition is subject to interpretation. The second definition of work said it was a means for an income. So if a wealthy person is toiling 60 hours a week just to pass the time, or they find the labors challenging and otherwise worthwhile, then they aren’t doing it for an income. That’s just a secondary factor which may not or may not make the efforts more fulfilling; It could be interpreted as not satisfying the dictionary definition of work. However, her boss would likely scoff. “Of course she’s doing it for money. I’m not paying her in hi-5s!”

A couple years ago, the SCOTUS had a case which came down to the definition of takings. Only 8 of the 9 learned justices ruled that confiscation of raisins against the grower’s will counted as a “taking.”

So, I think it’s good to debate and discuss definitions and application of words that try to describe concepts we hold dear. I do hear some good ration I hadn’t considered before. My opinion hasn’t changed drastically, but I do have a bit more respect for others’.

 

[NW-Bound]

I don't eat meat, so would rather think of myself as a grilled cheese sandwich...

I'm a grilled cheese sandwich! I'm a grilled cheese sandwich! And I go shopping in my pajamas!

Fine!

I cannot remember if I ever ate a grilled cheese sandwich in my life. But I have had numerous Philly sandwiches, many of those I made myself.

And I do not go out in my pajamas. Heck, I do not even wear pajamas at home. I sleep in shorts.

 

[HadEnuff]

I agree that if you want to call yourself a ham sandwich, you may. However, when I look at you I may say, "that is no ham sandwich".

For me, I have no hobby that generates any income, no "side-hustle".

But if I did, and I was able to keep unwanted "obligations" associated with that hustle to a very low minimum, I guess I'd say I was "retired".

I don't consider being happy with one's work, because one has gained control over the hours and the obligations and is satisfied with that level of effort, "retired". That is, IMO, being "happy with work"...
As others have said, it's no skin off my nose what you call yourself, or how you consider your current employment status.

 

[Zorba]

I think Darrow Kirkpatrick, over at "Can I Retire Yet" says it well:

This stage of life is about personal and financial freedom, not full-time leisure. Any part-time work in retirement should be about convenience and fulfillment. If you need or want to work, choose something that fits your schedule, is fun, and makes you feel good.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

The retirement police is just a name one of the ER bloggers had for people who pointed out he didn't really have enough money to retire for the rest of his life without having to work. Name calling is a common tactic people use to deflect criticism when they don't have the facts on their side.

At least some of the more famous ER bloggers are encouraging others to take on ER risks they themselves are not subject to, and I think that it is good to shine the light of day on their fables. One guy encouraged others to retire on a shoestring, while really his wife was working full time and then he went back to work full time as a quant. Another has Canadian citizenship for a backstop for healthcare, still works full-time making 6 figures, leaves half or more of his expenses off his "budget" (home repairs, health insurance, travel, taxes), misstates the 4% "rule" and refers to but misstates significant portions of the advice in The Millionaire Next Door. One ER blogging family says they are retired yet readers found a public filing from the husband's employer showing he was still working and making over $200K a year, not including their book and blog income.

So, no, I would not say these type of ER bloggers are really retired.

 

[Sunset]

Are you asking me if I am a retired law enforcement officer?

I totally skipped this thread for a long time (days?), because I thought it would be real cops being retired.
Full of "I'm retired from Erie PA" where the neck bomb bank robber happened.

 

[Sunset]

I guess I'm not retired by this definition. I cut my neighbor's grass (1/2 acre) (and my own. The neighbor has diabetes and has both legs amputated above the knees. But I don't charge him.

That's very kind of you.
He was probably worried you would charge an arm and a leg