retiring without saving

[jollystomper]

Yet there are many homeless folks around our country. I guess the west coast is pretty bad right now......

Many of the homeless have physical or mental issues and no advocate to help them get on top of benefits available.

That is true. But there are more and few homeless who have chosen to be homeless, by either refusing to live in offered housing for whatever reason, or not willing to accept the rules needed to live in a dwelling. For those with mental issues it is difficult, as they have to choose to seek help.

 

[RobbieB]

Sounds like the "high level education" path is a lot like the "MD" path. Got to suffer the "adjunct" just like the "intern"

My DSS is working on the physics PhD at MIT, wants to be a professor. At least his job is paying the schooling expense (with little else) but I wonder if he knows about this adjunct thing? Maybe in for a big surprise.

Ah well, he does have a master in Electrical Engineering to fall back on if he wants to get a "company job"

 

[MarieIG]

I recall having some adjunct professors who taught in the evenings - but teaching was a side gig. In other words, they had full time jobs, and taught because they wanted to do so. One of my "adjuncts" had a day job in the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit. (He was fantastic.)

 

[pb4uski]

Our country is full of seniors who retire exactly as you describe. Often, I suspect, they did not plan or desire retirement. Adjustments must be made, like finding roommates, moving to a lower-cost area, living with their adult children (yikes), eating crappy foods. Not optimum. But in the grand scheme, better than about 3/4 of the planet.

I have a friend who has had a lower middle class income who is retiring with very little saved... probably $100-200k at the most. He owns a duplex that he lives in one unit and rents the other so he'll have SS, the rental income and some small amount of retirement savings withdrawals.

I think he'll be fine as he lives very frugally and always has. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if he picks up some part-time work here-and-there just to have something to do.

 

[RobbieB]

I recall having some adjunct professors who taught in the evenings - but teaching was a side gig. In other words, they had full time jobs, and taught because they wanted to do so. One of my "adjuncts" had a day job in the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit. (He was fantastic.)

I'll bet he didn't live in his car.

I'll also bet that most (like 99%) of college professors don't live in their cars.

As always, bad news is good.

 

[Irishgirlyc58]

I worked in health and human services. A lot of my focus the last several years before retiring last year was on homelessness.
At the time stats showed that the number 1 cause of seniors becoming homeless was loss of partner/roommate.
A couple with $1,500 each, $3,000 total in social security can do ok. Not great but ok. Take away $1,500 and all of the sudden that $1,200 rent ( which might still be the lowest here) is a pretty steep bill. People always think some program will help them but when those programs don’t- due to various reasons- it’s usually too late. I had staff who worked with these people helping them piece together a housing situation that would work for them and either keep them from becoming homeless or get them off the street and into a home if they had already become homeless.
It’s really sad.

I was a single mother but was lucky to have come from a middle class family. It really makes a difference in how you view yourself and your options.
Not to mention how nice it is when your family is able to help out financially if necessary.
It just made me work harder and be extremely ambitious in my career. But this was the example I grew up with. From both parents so it was foreign to me.
I was also lucky to love my career and that it came with a pension.

 

[NW-Bound]

Sounds like the "high level education" path is a lot like the "MD" path. Got to suffer the "adjunct" just like the "intern"

A medical internship can be as short as 1 year and as long as 7 years, depending on specialties.

Adjunct teaching staff stay adjunct for life.

 

[RobbieB]

No path to tenure? Why bother then?

 

[Teacher Terry]

A person with a master’s degree is not a college professor. They should have pursued one that lead to employment. There’s not enough professor jobs for people with PhD’s so someone with a master’s will always be a adjunct. I also wondered why the husband didn’t work.

Something I never understood is why people don’t leave HCOL areas when they still have money to move before they are broke. I have had to move a few times for better employment opportunities. When I got divorced almost 2 years ago I considered moving to a lower COL and checked prices, etc and in the end decided to stay but also knew that I couldn’t afford to rent and needed to buy something affordable right away. I have always been realistic and a planner however.

The problem with people relying on social services even those with disabilities is that states really vary as to what’s available. Taxes are low in Nevada because our social services are severely lacking. I have lived in 5 states and even Kansas does a much better job than here.

 

[Irishgirlyc58]

People rarely leave the area they live in for the sole purpose of housing costs or services available.
To do so is asking people to give up their family and friends. For many relationships are the only positive in their lives.
I’ve even seen people move back to their original area from relocating only based on affordable housing. Even if it meant that they had to then couch surf. The loneliness of living away from their family was too much.

It’s easy to judge people without knowing their background and circumstances. Human beings are complicated. One solution definitely does not fit all.

 

[NW-Bound]

... When I got divorced almost 2 years ago I considered moving to a lower COL and checked prices, etc and in the end decided to stay but also knew that I couldn’t afford to rent and needed to buy something affordable right away. I have always been realistic and a planner however...

A younger friend of my wife is single, and never wanted to have a home. She is afraid of homeownership, I think.

When the housing market cratered in 2008-2009, she could have picked up a nice townhouse here dirt cheap for around $80K in a short sale and it is in a resort too. Could have paid for it in cash. Nope, she would rather rent. Her rent is now $2K/month. These nice townhouses are now $330K.

She works in IT so would have a decent pay, I hope. However, she has been bouncing from job to job because she's old with outdated skills and cannot compete with young Turks. We don't know how much saving she has, but I suspect that she's not knowledgeable about investment either.

And I wonder if she even knows how much SS she will be getting. Some people can go through life without worrying or caring about their future financial status. Or perhaps they don't know what questions to ask themselves, and just let things fall where they may. They will just figure things out as they happen, and improvise.

 

[marko]

A person with a master’s degree is not a college professor. They should have pursued one that lead to employment. .

In general, there's far too many people who've "pursued their passion" in degrees and activities that do not lead to gainful employment.

Someone never took them aside and said "it's fine to be interested in xyz, but how about making it your hobby/avocation and instead focus on how you're going to keep body and soul together".

A couple hundred grand for a PhD in PreColumbian South American Women's Art, anyone? Yeah, she’s now teaching second grade and barely scraping by with 3 roommates, 36 years old and $250k in the hole.

 

[Bigdawg]

In general, there's far too many people who've "pursued their passion" in degrees and activities that do not lead to gainful employment.

Someone never took them aside and said "it's fine to be interested in xyz, but how about making it your hobby/avocation and instead focus on how you're going to keep body and soul together".

A couple hundred grand for a PhD in PreColumbian South American Women's Art, anyone? Yeah, she’s now teaching second grade and barely scraping by with 3 roommates, 36 years old and $250k in the hole.

^This. 6-7 years ago, the deputy manager I supported had a wife who was literally an expert in one particular Shakespeare play. She was trying to get hired at a University. She had a PHD. The problem was that she was so specialized and most Universities aren't that specialized. She was holding out for that type of job while they were (sort of) struggling to pay the bills. I pointed out to him that many places (including where we were working) were hiring. He (and she apparently) couldn't seem to understand that you take the job that pays the bills. IF you can find a job that is fun, more power to you.

 

[street]

I know many of the oldest generation still alive and have passed that retired with very little savings.

They lived in fly over states and very rural areas. They worked all their life but made very little money and had all they needed and lived very simply.

The couples both got SS and had homes paid for. People that I knew with little lived life and passed on just like the ones that had money. Their friendships with long times friends were a huge part of their enjoyment in life. They had their church and community involvement and their activities they did all their life and did just fine.

 

[athena53]

Something I never understood is why people don’t leave HCOL areas when they still have money to move before they are broke.

That's not always a great decision if you have family support in the HCOL area. I've seen sad stories where the parents move to a LCOL area and then when their health deteriorates they expect their adult kids to keep visiting and help them out. One friend comes from a large family based in Ohio and parents moved to Arkansas and now expect help on a regular basis.

A couple hundred grand for a PhD in PreColumbian South American Women's Art, anyone? Yeah, she’s now teaching second grade and barely scraping by with 3 roommates, 36 years old and $250k in the hole.

My brother has a friend who's scraping by on her degree in Underwater Archaeology. In a way it's a shame- there are some really interesting but unmarketable fields and they're worth studying. Should they be left only to those with trust funds or high-earning spouses? Companies used to hire anyone with a degree in anything from a good university, figuring they were intelligent and teachable. Now you can't get in the bathroom without a STEM or finance degree.

 

[Badger]

As a retired college A&P professor I was able to get though my education without accumulating big loans. If I was given the chance to live over again in these times I would learn a trade instead like electrical, plumbing, HVAC, etc. In most cases they make more money and have a chance to make decent money with side work after retirement.
What I don't understand is why people will pursue an expensive education in fields that have little future for employment. AND why parents don't see the problem or research the lack of job opportunities so they can advise their children on the pitfalls. College is not the answer for everyone.

Cheers!

 

[rothlev]

There's a whole (and growing?) sub-culture of folks on some weird 'dark' economy. Between social programs, a lot of 'free' stuff, bartering and 'social engineering' they manage to get by. Not a great way to live out one's last years.

Seems to me though, that the lifestyle that got them to that point in old age, tends to make them early candidates for a visit by the reaper, sadly ending the misery sooner than later.

Not really so, with the social programs in place, I suspect that many live to a ripe old age, if they eat poorly it is not necessarily an economic decision but a choice. many are widow's , not necessarily did anything wrong lifestyle wise. Lifestyle in their retirement is reasonably good, certainly not miserable, just not extravagant. . ( and some have children to pay for some extras such as travel )

When MIL lived in section 8 ( very small income ) she had food stamps and government boxes of food , such as cheese , beans, etc... she got so much extra food that she was giving it away. then her rent was only 30% of income. It came to a point where the administration had to tell her daughter to remove money from her checking account as she was saving so much money, she could have disqualified herself from section 8.

 

[Souschef]

I totally agree with Badger. My older son graduated UCLA with a degree. He worked as a bicycle repairman, a movie camera repairman, went back to learn to be a video editor, at which he was very successful.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Simple answer to the title of this thread is "Wishful Thinking". Even with the max SS benefit of ~$3,335 at FRA assuming retirement at 65, retiring at 62 being a lot less it would be a challenge in today's inflationary atmosphere unless one owns their own home outright.

One could argue that folks in this position would be more likely to take SS at 62 rather than 70 which maybe more doable for some folks.

 

[jollystomper]

People rarely leave the area they live in for the sole purpose of housing costs or services available.
To do so is asking people to give up their family and friends. For many relationships are the only positive in their lives.
I’ve even seen people move back to their original area from relocating only based on affordable housing. Even if it meant that they had to then couch surf. The loneliness of living away from their family was too much.

It’s easy to judge people without knowing their background and circumstances. Human beings are complicated. One solution definitely does not fit all.

Some of this may be a cultural/regional thing. My parents were immigrants, who came a long way to better their and their kids lives (despite increased exposure to discrimination and racism). So I did not grow up with the feeling of having to stay in the area for family. It was more move to a place that you could do the best for yourself economically. All except two of my siblings went to colleges hours away from our home, and all of us chose to start our working careers in areas where the cost of living was relatively lower than where we grew up.

That has flowed down to our kids. Among my kids, and my nieces and nephews, about a quarter of them have stayed in the area they grew up in.

I also observe that college in a time of gaining friends who can last for a lifetime, and getting to know an area well. Some feel a stronger tie to the area they attended college in than where they grew up.

 

[jollystomper]

What I don't understand is why people will pursue an expensive education in fields that have little future for employment. AND why parents don't see the problem or research the lack of job opportunities so they can advise their children on the pitfalls. College is not the answer for everyone.

From our experience, when our children were applying to and visiting colleges in the early 2000's, schools were doing a poor job of talking about planning for life after college. Everything was about the "college experience". At these visits DW or I would ask the questions along the lines of "what data to you have that shows how your graduates with various degrees have done n the years after college?". The vast majority responded they did not have that data, and some tried to play it down as "not that important now, the kids will figure it out by the time they graduate".

DW was an adjunct professor for 20+ years. Several times she was offered a full (non-tenured) professor position, but turned it down because (a) she did not want to deal with the added office politics, and (b) my salary and our lifestyle was such that she had the ability to make that choice without financial considerations being a factor. An incident that sticks in her mind was a History department meeting where the chairman was lamenting about the difficulty of 'selling" their major due to lack of well paying jobs related to history. DW brought up why do they emphasize the skills history majors gain that could be beneficial in business, finance, corporations, etc. The chairman shut her down with the comment "we don't want to do that. Those are drone jobs!"

 

[aja8888]

My daughter's divorced MIL (now mid 60's age) lives on SS of ~ $1000.00 per month. Otherwise, she is broke. She lives with a "boyfriend" who also has a small SS check and a small pension from some company he worked for years ago. Let me just say that the MIL would be up $h*t's Creek if the boyfriend and her parted company. And I would put money on that happening sometime in the future as there has been a couple of "dry runs" already.

The wait here for Section 8 housing is two years minimum (daughter checked this) and those places are not a great place to finish out your years.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

From our experience, when our children were applying to and visiting colleges in the early 2000's, schools were doing a poor job of talking about planning for life after college. Everything was about the "college experience". At these visits DW or I would ask the questions along the lines of "what data to you have that shows how your graduates with various degrees have done n the years after college?". The vast majority responded they did not have that data, and some tried to play it down as "not that important now, the kids will figure it out by the time they graduate".

Our kids had state grants so they could go to public colleges and universities in our state tuition free. Every time they would bring up going to some expensive private school, out of state or out of country college, we'd show them the Payscale reports by college and majors. We said if you can make a case for the extra costs, we'll consider it. But most of the schools they brought up would have cost more and had lower starting and mid-career salaries to boot.

Now that information is on the College Scorecard site and even more readily available.

 

[Sunset]

....
What I don't understand is why people will pursue an expensive education in fields that have little future for employment. AND why parents don't see the problem or research the lack of job opportunities so they can advise their children on the pitfalls. College is not the answer for everyone.
.......

For me, my parents were old and had that old view that pursuing an education was valuable in of itself.. After I spent 10 years working a pretty low paying job, I went back to College to get a STEM degree and earn a living.

Many kids are unrealistic about jobs, picking up misinformation mostly from TV. I wanted to be a chemist, until I spent a day with chemists working on the tar sands oil. I realized being a chemist was BORING to me. They had been working on 1 project for years !!

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

People with zero savings would be good candidates for Medicare advantage programs that cost $0 per month, and maybe even put $$$ back into your SS check each month !!

But...you have to check your zip code.