Rising Mortality of Middle-Aged White Americans

[Starsky]

Wow - failed drug tests and felony records. What % of the population does that keep from employment?

Not to mention turnover (I assume due to not sticking with the job, although being fired for cause must certainly play a part).

8.6% - 6.5% of adult non-blacks and 25% of adult blacks. Do you still think it doesn't have an impact? It represents instant disqualification for almost any employer. About one of 11 people in America are affected. It's a huge deal.

How do you think white America would feel if one in four people were permanently disqualified from gainful employment? Pretty heavy s**t...

 

[audreyh1]

8.6% - 6.5% of adult non-blacks and 25% of adult blacks. Do you still think it doesn't have an impact? It represents instant disqualification for almost any employer. About one of 11 people in America are affected. It's a huge deal.

How do you think white America would feel if one in four people were permanently disqualified from gainful employment? Pretty heavy s**t...

Well we're talking about the struggles of middle aged white Americans here.

Things are apparently not as rosy as they were.

 

[samclem]

About one of 11 people in America are affected.

I note the passive voice. If only we could figure out what is causing these felonies to be committed.

 

[Walt34]

I note the passive voice. If only we could figure out what is causing these felonies to be committed.

There is an element of a feedback loop going on with that. Naturally, folks with felony convictions have a harder time finding jobs and for garyt's company they wouldn't dare hire them because of the liability of employing convicts who are going to be around school kids. Same with known drug users. There may even be a state law prohibiting them from doing so.

So, faced with fewer options, they are more likely to make another withdrawal from the local convenience store.

 

[Texas Proud]

It's pretty amazing, really. They know they'll have to take a drug test and they still apply.

It is not just low level people that do that... I would hire accountants and would say that we are going to do a background test and the things that would disqualify them right off the bat... sooo, please tell me if we do not need to do one...

I had only one person tell me that I did not need to do one.... I had many fail... and this was not a drug test!!!

 

[NW-Bound]

These are issues that Jamie Dimon, CEO of JP MorganChase, speaks about in this year's letter to shareholders.
https://www.jpmorganchase.com/corporate/investor-relations/document/ar2016-ceolettershareholders.pdf Discussion starts on Page 32.

Thanks for sharing. It is a good discourse on other topics regarding the state of the nation too.

About the topic at hand, it has a chart showing that the labor force participation rate for men aged 25–54 has dropped from 96% in the early 70s down to 89% today. It's the lowest among OECD countries, and about the same as that of Italy. Fifty seven percent of the non-working males are on disability.

 

[Starsky]

It is not just low level people that do that... I would hire accountants and would say that we are going to do a background test and the things that would disqualify them right off the bat... sooo, please tell me if we do not need to do one...

I had only one person tell me that I did not need to do one.... I had many fail... and this was not a drug test!!!

To Audrey's point, I DQ'd way more candidates for failing an intelligence test than a drug one...most couldn't even follow the instructions - these are white collar jobs.

 

[HFWR]

As a reference, the local community college tuition is $42/hr, or about $2520 for a typical AA.

 

[meierlde]

I wonder if part of this can have similar causes to the situation in the Soviet Union and Russia after the fall of the Berlin wall. Here is a quote from an abstract on this:
Abstract: Male life expectancy at birth fell by over six years in Russia between 1989 and 1994.
Many other countries of the former Soviet Union saw similar declines, and female life
expectancy fell as well. Using cross-country and Russian household survey data, we assess six
possible explanations for this upsurge in mortality. Most find little support in the data: the
deterioration of the health care system, changes in diet and obesity, and material deprivation fail
to explain the increase in mortality rates. The two factors that do appear to be important are
alcohol consumption, especially as it relates to external causes of death (homicide, suicide, and
accidents) and stress associated with a poor outlook for the future. However, a large residual
remains to be explained."
For the US add opiod additiction to the Alcohol issue. I do thing the poor outlook for the future is a common factor. (In essence that current folks will not live as well as their parents). I do wonder if the base time frame after WWII was an anomalous time and should not be used as a benchmark. If you go back to the 1920s factory workers were not really middle class for example. The unions succeeded because there the big countries were not involved in trade with us and many others were rebuilding and did not have capacity to export much.

 

[Walt34]

I do wonder if the base time frame after WWII was an anomalous time and should not be used as a benchmark. If you go back to the 1920s factory workers were not really middle class for example. The unions succeeded because there the big countries were not involved in trade with us and many others were rebuilding and did not have capacity to export much.

There is also the issue that the U.S. industrial base was untouched by the war, while most of Europe and the industrialized Asian countries had to completely rebuild since their infrastructure was destroyed. So for perhaps the first decade the U.S. had virtually no competition to it's industry. This put the unions in a good bargaining position because of the labor shortage.

So yes, I think it was a very unusual set of circumstances that the U.S. benefited enormously from.

 

[NW-Bound]

To Audrey's point, I DQ'd way more candidates for failing an intelligence test than a drug one...most couldn't even follow the instructions - these are white collar jobs.

Perhaps the instructions should not be in writing but in a video format.

Nowadays, people do not want to read, even if their livelihood depends on it. They will watch a video though.

 

[samclem]

To Audrey's point, I DQ'd way more candidates for failing an intelligence test than a drug one..

An >intelligence< test?! C'mon. Aptitude, knowledge, written or verbal skills, okay. And what's a "failing" score on an intelligence test?

 

[HFWR]

an >intelligence< test?! C'mon. Aptitude, knowledge, written or verbal skills, okay. And what's a "failing" score on an intelligence test?

 

[Fedup]

So this is the person you use to justify that most poor people - families, mothers, fathers, kids - use drugs? A young, alcoholic musician from Boston.

(FWIW, I will personally vouch for the fact that most musicians do.)

I didn't say most. I said I don't believe in the poor and not have the money for drugs. Not just the musician, the other roommate did too. She was a drop out psychology major. I would think she's poor too, but her family was not. I don't believe they were supporting her.

 

[Starsky]

An >intelligence< test?! C'mon. Aptitude, knowledge, written or verbal skills, okay. And what's a "failing" score on an intelligence test?

It was computer based - Mostly simple math problems for salespeople. Some situational questions. And more than one person closed the test and tried to re-open it - an automatic Fail. Following instructions is fundamental. A lot of hiring is formulaic in Fortune 50 Companies. I didn't necessarily agree with the process, but I didn't invent it and couldn't change it. Management level jobs never required drug testing. Lower level jobs did.

Actually, I did get them to reopen an aptitude test for one person I really needed to hire. It took the President's approval and appeal to HQ to make it happen.

 

[MikeD]

In 1973 I owned a used VW that my father gave to me as a gift on the condition that I graduate college. I had failed 11th grade, took it over at the same time as I took 12th grade. I passed the 11th grade but failed the 12th grade. I am told that I'm very bright and tested out repeatedly as a genius. I had a really shitty attitude. I was not a criminal and didn't get caught doing anything illegal, ever, because I did not do illegal things. I did not take drugs. I did not drink alcohol. I just had a really shitty attitude. I had no discipline. I could not do anything I was not interested in and could only do what I was interested in. No one ever made me do anything I didn't want to do.

I had been a diabetic since 1960 (age 6 onset - God just hated me) and my parents were alcoholics of the semi-responsible sort. It was easy to not discipline me because they thought I'd be dead "By adolescence."

I have just celebrated my 63rd birthday.

I met a wonderful woman when she was a 16 year old girl and I was a 17 year old boy while we were with our families who had coincidentally gone to Chincoteague, Va for two week summer vacations. We camped next to each other in the sand. Apparently she liked weirdos. We've been married since 1976.

With my wife's help and advice, I improved my attitude, got a GED (99th percentile (I had to explain to the test reviewer why I couldn't possibly get 100)), went to community college while I lived on $1,200.00 per year including all rent, food, insulin, and gas and oil to drive to class 25 miles away from my $50.00 per month apartment (For you of limited Maths, that's $50.00 per month for all expenses except rent). Imagine what that apartment was like! My neighbor was usually locked up for beating his wife when he wasn't locked up for beating his wife, all of which I could hear from the shared forced air heating vents from which those sounds and the smell of boiling chitlins emerged. My neighbor's children hit dog turds with sticks for entertainment.

I took classes at the com coll, where on the first day I found a Bandaid in my cole slaw in the free snack that we were given in orientation where the President of the college told us, much to my despair, that the main reason we were all here was to have fun.

After a year I transferred to Va Tech where they proceeded to kick my ass to encourage the CS majors to drop out. I transferred to U of MD where they were more welcoming and I became a CS major with a BS.

All the good stuff was because my wife had parents who cared about her and helped her succeed which she then explained to me in both words and deed.

I literally and figuratively would not be alive today without my wife and her parents. Her parents helped me mostly in an indirect manner by teaching my wife how to live.

You don't need to be rich to go to college and get somewhere.

Mike D.

 

[Nemo2]

Mike D. that's a great story.......you and your lady are obviously among life's big winners......good luck to you....onward & upward!