Role of luck in life success

[daylatedollarshort]

I made some of my own luck but also had some fortunate circumstances, like being born in the U.S. and having parents willing to hep with college. I also wasn't born a crack baby or with brain damage from lead poisoning. In some countries just by being female I might have been a child bride and not been able to go to college. I find it hard to see how luck could not play a role in circumstances like birth country or being born healthy or disabled.

[robnplunder]

Luck? Who me? I think I had my share of luck for my success. OTOH, I had my share of bad luck that set me back. "Luck" has way of evening things out.

I am now working full time in my retirement to reduce bad luck.

[Badger]

I was lucky to be issued the parents I had. My father may have thought I wasn't listening but it must have been one of those subliminal things because I observed how he conducted himself and his personal finances all my life. Now I realize I have been following his example to get where I am. Without my parent's guidance by example and support I may never have gone to college and discovered my career path with help from my mentor (lucky again). Even so I still had to bust my buns my entire life to get to where we are. I also consider it extremely lucky to have met my wife when I was about 40 who had a much different upbringing but had the same work ethic.



Cheers!

[Car-Guy]

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Originally Posted by frayne I've always believed to a large extent one makes their own luck, good or bad.

I don't call it luck but for things under someones control, I'd agree with your line of thinking.

[frayne]

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Originally Posted by zinger1457 Have a feeling that many people, maybe even a few on this forum, would not score very high on an empathy quiz.

You might be surprised. I think many here understand the playing field is not level nor does everyone leave the gate at the same starting blocks. Again with that said and all things being equal, I do believe to a large extent you can make your luck (good or bad) by the life decisions you make. On the other side of the coin, how one does in the birth lottery to a large degree will define how you will end up making those good/bad life decisions. And that is a matter of luck or cosmic karma.

[Closet_Gamer]

When my wife was pregnant, we read lots of books on becoming parents. I recall one book had something called "The Best Odds Diet" (or something similar.)

It basically said that no diet or behavior could guarantee that a child would be born healthy. But that there seems to be a dietary approach to the creating the best odds for a good outcome.

I think there are "best odds" approaches to life. There are no guarantees, but there are pretty reliable, highly repeatable approaches that tend to lift ones station in life over time. Hard work, thrift, risk taking, and grit seem to be pretty consistent ingredients and also have a high correlation to "making ones own luck" and to overcoming bad luck.

There is catastrophic bad luck that no amount of best odds behaviors can overcome. As the "shirt sleeves-to-shirt sleeves in three generations" point makes, there does not appear to be a level of good luck that cannot be destroyed pretty quickly.

Edit to add: But, yes, my sig does somewhat sum how I think one should approach life. :-)

And, IMHO, the kid who lifts themselves out of poverty and into a stable, middle class life with where s/he can give their kids a better starting point, is a lot more impressive than Bill Gates.

Edit to add: Yes, however, my sig line does pretty well sum up how I think one should approach the concept of "luck" in how we conduct ourselves. :-)

[Sojourner]

Quote:

Originally Posted by COcheesehead One of the stories from Outliers is about Bill Gates. As a teenager he had written more code than almost anybody in the country at that time. Why? His parents happened to live next to one of the few universities that had a computer and he got a job there. Yes HE coded till his hands hurt I am sure, but would the opportunity even existed had his parents chose to live somewhere else?

Quote:

Originally Posted by marko What about the other kids who lived next to that university?

Those other kids weren't lucky enough to have been born into a situation that provided just the right ingredients and influences to lead Bill Gates down the specific path he followed to success. For example, they weren't born to smart, wealthy, caring, nurturing parents who cultivated an intense interest in science, mathematics, and computers at an early age.

And before you say "But some of those other kids were born to smart, wealthy, caring parents", yes of course they were. But they lacked Bill's specific genetics that made his brain work just as it did (luck), and they lacked the specific influences of his friends and family and teachers that shaped and motivated his interests all along the way (luck), and so on. When you really look at it, luck is essentially the whole story.

[ckelly78z]

I was born lucky into a steady 2 parent home in suburbia, being white, male, and middle income. My Dad had a good job for 41 years, while my Mom stayed home. They are both still alive, and active at 78 years old.

My life has not been lucky with being shy around girls when young (now married 31 years), having major health issues throughout, and being the innocent victim of 2 bad car accidents. I have tended to rebound nicely after all of these issues, using work ethic, and determination, but it has given me a bad attitude, and less empathy for others.

[marko]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sojourner Those other kids weren't lucky enough to have been born into a situation that provided just the right ingredients and influences to lead Bill Gates down the specific path he followed to success. For example, they weren't born to smart, wealthy, caring, nurturing parents who cultivated an intense interest in science, mathematics, and computers at an early age. And before you say "But some of those other kids were born to smart, wealthy, caring parents", yes of course they were. But they lacked Bill's specific genetics that made his brain work just as it did (luck), and they lacked the specific influences of his friends and family and teachers that shaped and motivated his interests all along the way (luck), and so on. When you really look at it, luck is essentially the whole story.

All good points but Bill still had to put in the effort. He could have chosen an easier path and be an office drone or work in a bank.

My aforementioned classmates were born white, wealthy and to motivating families. One of them is now a surgeon, his brother is near homeless; they had identical influences, opportunities and close genes. The brother chose to be a playboy and fritter his opportunities until dad cut off the spigot (bad luck maybe?), the surgeon chose to go to med school.

[Sojourner]

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Originally Posted by marko My aforementioned classmates were born white, wealthy and to motivating families. One of them is now a surgeon, his brother is near homeless; they had identical influences, opportunities and close genes. The brother chose to be a playboy and fritter his opportunities until dad cut off the spigot (bad luck maybe?), the surgeon chose to go to med school.

Unless they were identical twin brothers, they had similar genes but not identical, and their influences, friends, and experiences were also fairly similar but definitely not exactly the same. Studies have shown that parents tend to pay different amounts of attention and to interact differently with their children, even identical twins, which leads to marked differences in their interests and skills, etc. My point is simply that everything that makes up a person comes down to either genetics (nature) or environment (nurture), and that neither of those is something a person chooses. Luck is the root cause of all of it. Getting back to Bill Gates, you said that he could have chosen an easier path and been an office drone, as did some of his very similar peers. Yes, he could have, but he didn't, because of the very specific luck-based factors that shaped him as a person (e.g., his genes, his parents, his specific friends, family, teachers, influences, etc.). Those things all made him what he turned out to be, but (IMHO) he didn't really "choose" any of that.

[kgtest]

Quote:

Originally Posted by marko Agree you can't predict a company's success. But even the 23 year old me had a mental checklist of what I expected from a company in compensation/benefits and growth opportunity for what I could do for them. Maybe naive at the time but I had little patience for places that just wanted me to be a drone and where the guy sitting next to me was 56 years old and doing the same mind-numbing job for 25 years. I just bounced from job to job until I found a place that what I thought best fit that list. I'd often drive through office parking lots a lunch checking out how new the employees' cars were just to get a feel for how well they might pay. I found that company on my fifth try but I would have kept searching until I found it.

I once attended a focus group studying 'Success'. They asked, how do you know if opportunity and success exist at your employer... to which I replied "Look at the parking lot". Seemed reasonable.

[Mdlerth]

It's clear the luck vs decisions debate, which I've seen here in earlier threads, will be resolved to unanimous agreement at about the same time as the one regarding when to claim SS.

Luck comprises the stuff that's outside of our control. Of course, luck comes in two forms: good and bad. It's strange, but a single external event could take either form, depending on other circumstances. For example, I am being laid off at the end of the year, along with some unknown number of my colleagues.

If I were 41, it would be very bad luck. I'd have kids starting college, and own my house in a town dominated by the Megacorp with whom I'd spent the prior 20 years. I would have to find w*rk somewhere else, sell my house in a buyer's market, uproot my family, lose the seniority-based benefits which were just about to reach the "nice" level. COBRA is hideously expensive. After two decades, my skill set would have become narrowly specialized to the business which employed me, making it difficult to find a drop-in replacement j*b. I had not yet been focused on accumulating any savings. This lone event would be almost guaranteed to push retirement out by many years.

But at 61, it's a lottery win. Our children's college costs are behind us, we've already bought our retirement house, and I now qualify for retiree health insurance. Between the severance package and the simultaneous pension, I'm essentially still at full pay & benefits for about 4 years. FIRECalc gives me 100% plus a comfortable margin, so I don't need to bother looking for another j*b. Goodbye, OMY; hello, retirement.

Same event, totally different outcome.

[Chuckanut]

When I was still a young college student earning maybe $2.10 an hour, Larry, an acquaintance of mine, received a $50,000 inheritance from his grandfather. That is the equivalent of over $300,000 today. He also married a gal named LaNelle who was an intelligent, charming, beauty to say the least.

5 years later.....

Larry had blown through his inheritance - several very nice cars including a Porsche, a luxury apartment, 5* travel, and general high living. LaNelle now referred to him as '"that little s!%t" and it was not said with affection.

So, yes, luck certainly can bless us all with good opportunities. But, we still have to be able to take advantage of them.

[GravitySucks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgtest I once attended a focus group studying 'Success'. They asked, how do you know if opportunity and success exist at your employer... to which I replied "Look at the parking lot". Seemed reasonable.

I once did contractor work a few days at a private college. Talking with one of the office staffers I mentioned how they must pay well with all the BMWs in the parking lot. She pointed to the parking lot full of Corollas and Ford's and told me that's the employee lot. The Bimmers are in the student lot.
Did luck get the BMW and hard work the Corolla?

[marko]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sojourner Unless they were identical twin brothers, they had similar genes but not identical, and their influences, friends, and experiences were also fairly similar but definitely not exactly the same. Studies have shown that parents tend to pay different amounts of attention and to interact differently with their children, even identical twins, which leads to marked differences in their interests and skills, etc. My point is simply that everything that makes up a person comes down to either genetics (nature) or environment (nurture), and that neither of those is something a person chooses. Luck is the root cause of all of it. Getting back to Bill Gates, you said that he could have chosen an easier path and been an office drone, as did some of his very similar peers. Yes, he could have, but he didn't, because of the very specific luck-based factors that shaped him as a person (e.g., his genes, his parents, his specific friends, family, teachers, influences, etc.). Those things all made him what he turned out to be, but (IMHO) he didn't really "choose" any of that.

Interesting insights.

But aren't you suggesting that we all have some sort of post-birth 'predestination'? That what we are/become, successful/failure, rich/poor, good/bad person are all a matter of things out of our control and more about thousands of inputs and influences as we live?

In that case, the billionaire doesn't deserve praise and the murderer doesn't deserve blame as we are all driven by these lifetimes of influences. We essentially have no choice because, as you say like Bill Gates, "he really didn't choose any of that" and it is a function of our genes and influences that shape our decisions. No?

[timo2]

Being born into a developed country is a big big lucky thing. Just being able to have the physical infrastructure to support your endeavours is a giant head start over undeveloped countries. If every road was dirt or a toll road, if the power grid was shaky, and if the educational system was poor it would be very difficult for businesses to get going and be successful.

[kgtest]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GravitySucks I once did contractor work a few days at a private college. Talking with one of the office staffers I mentioned how they must pay well with all the BMWs in the parking lot. She pointed to the parking lot full of Corollas and Ford's and told me that's the employee lot. The Bimmers are in the student lot. Did luck get the BMW and hard work the Corolla?

Hah! There is that.

[Winemaker]

So I guess it boils down to whether you're born in a place with drinkable water or reasonable facsimile.

[exnavynuke]

Luck provides opportunity. Opportunities can be ignored, seized and squandered, or seized and utilized to their full potential, or something in between. What science and common sense tell us, however, is that not everyone is provided with the same opportunities (some have more/less "luck").

More importantly, however, is that not everyone is provided with the "luck" to be/have been molded into the kind of person that will seek out and recognize opportunities when luck does bring them about.

Every time this topic comes up, I'm reminded of the movie Good Will Hunting. While no one who watches the movie can miss the fact that his friends recognized the tremendous opportunity he had as a result of his "luck" in having his mental prowess, what most miss out on is that the rest of his social circle has, at a young age, completely accepted their fate/lot in life. That is simply the norm for many people, and most especially those who have fewer opportunities (i.e. luck) based on the circumstances they are born into.

Sure, we can all brainstorm or show examples of how people in any socio-economic group can climb out of it, but that exercise is useless without considering the mental leap necessary to go from a group that has been raised to accept their lot in life and assume they can't do better to becoming someone that challenges that norm in their segment of society. That's a leap that most people will never make, in large part due to how they were raised and those they were/are surrounded with all having the same assumptions of what "is or isn't possible", regardless of what actually "could be possible".

[nancyfrank232]

Quote:

Originally Posted by exnavynuke Luck provides opportunity. Opportunities can be ignored, seized and squandered, or seized and utilized to their full potential, or something in between

Personally I like the opportunity to be born to good parents, the opportunity to be born without a birth defect, the opportunity to avoid serious accidents, to be raised in a first world country, raised in a good neighborhood, not to be caught in a natural disaster, to avoid getting cancer or some other chronic or terminal illness, born in the right century, not live through a world war or plague, not be a slave, have antibiotics and other medicines available...among other opportunities that I was able to seize