Salad bar refrigeration - Hazard?

[gindie]

Tonight we ate at a restaurant that, in my mind, has always had a very good salad bar.

The bar has chiller units in it that sit above the food. We are in a very hot and humid period right now and about a half of the units had condensation drops forming on them which were sometimes dropping into the food items below.

Does anybody know whether this would be considered a hazard that should be reported to health officials?

 

[W2R]

I don't know if it would be considered to be a health hazard or not, but I *DO* know that I wouldn't eat at that salad bar, not for anything!

Bear in mind, that I don't ever eat food from the buffet table at Chinese restaurants either; many people are not as fussy as I am about these things.

One Chinese restaurant that gave me food poisoning that way, was finally closed due to repeated bad health inspections about ten years later. But everybody in town knew it was kind of "iffy", and it took that long for anything to be done.

The only reason I ate at that particular Chinese buffet, was that it was a work lunch and pre-paid by my work. We ate en masse there at large tables in a separate room as a group. At least half of my co-workers became dreadfully ill from it. "Gee, thanks!"

 

[MRG]

Just like WR2 I wouldn't touch it. Got food poisoning from a salad bar in Terre Haute, Indiana. Had to drive the next day. Then seven years ago a restaurant in downtown KCMO fed me bad mayo, after 2 days in the bathroom finally went to the ER and was hospitalized for thee days. You haven't lived till you spend a few days in the gastrointestinal wing.

No way no how.

 

[Car-Guy]

Just pay some attention to what people (general public) do at open salad bars and you will quit eating anything from them PDQ. It's bad enough for the restaurants trained (ha) employees who don't follow "good food handling practices" but to allow the general public access to the patrons food is just asking for trouble.

 

[user5027]

I hear the first thing the medical provider will ask the patient with stomach problems is if they ate at a buffet.

 

[savory]

Eating from any buffet offers a greater risk than getting food directly from the kitchen since so many people are involved with the food. (Having said that, many improvements have been made over the years such as people using a clean plate each time they return to the buffet- I at least see this more than in the past)

I believe condensation dripping on the food is an indication that temperatures are not keeping the food in the 'safe zone'. When food temperature is outside of the 'safe zone', bacteria multiplies quickly increasing its chance of affecting the consumer in a negative way. Any indication of temperature issues and/or cross contamination is something I would report to the restaurant and the health department. It may not end up being an issue but this is a better safe than sorry approach.

 

[youbet]

Does anybody know whether this would be considered a hazard that should be reported to health officials?

Actually, it's a hazard that should be reported to restaurant management. Skipping them to make a point by going direct to health officials would create an unnecessary delay.

If restaurant management does not act or explain to your satisfaction, then you might consider dropping a nickle to the health department.

Having cooling units for the food in a hot/humid climate is a good idea. The down side of the overhead units this restaurant is using is that condensation will form droplets, potentially dissolving any contaminants on the cooling elements, and the droplets containing the contaminants will drop down into the food. If the cooing elements aren't harboring contaminants (perhaps disinfected every night?), then the falling water droplets would just be distilled water. Who knows?

Personally, DW and I have been becoming more and more suspicious of food we don't prepare ourselves. We only trust piping hot (pizza sizzling hot from the oven, etc.) food in most cases. I got deathly ill from eating a cold meat and sausage variety plate at a quaint little restaurant in Frankfort, Germany and just the sight of cold or room temperature foods where I'm not personally familiar with how long they've been out of the fridge gives me the creeps.

 

[youbet]

I believe condensation dripping on the food is an indication that temperatures are not keeping the food in the 'safe zone'. .

The condensation is an indication that the cooling elements are below the dew point of the warm, moist air surrounding them and droplets are condensing onto the elements and then falling down into the food. We really don't know the temp of the food. Hopefully it's in trays sitting in an ice water bath as is conventional with salad bars.

 

[GravitySucks]

Anyone remember the make your own Taco Bar at Wendy's about 30 years ago? Watching a little league team go to town on that thing on a Saturday afternoon will give you second thoughts!

 

[LOL!]

Water condensed from air is probably more sterile than water coming out of the tap.

Have you ever looked inside the pipes in your home? You'd probably stop washing your salads with your tap water.

 

[youbet]

I *DO* know that I wouldn't eat at that salad bar, not for anything!

Salads in general are on my watch list. We prefer to eat most raw foods at home where we personally do the washing and inspection. Potato salad, cole slaw, etc., made at home and painstakingly kept refrigerated are safer than commercial versions too.

Of course this can all be taken overboard. Food poisoning is relatively rare and eating out relatively common. Still, if you don't prepare things yourself, can you really be sure?

 

[youbet]

Water condensed from air is probably more sterile than water coming out of the tap.

So, if the cooling elements that the water is condensing onto before dropping down into the food haven't been cleaned since Moses parted the waters and are pulsing with "life," you'll dig right in?

Sure, water condensing from the air is fine. It's what the water is condensing onto I'd worry about. And we don't know if the restaurant is sanitizing the cooling elements regularly or if perhaps the thought never entered their minds since they bought the system in 1983.

 

[ERD50]

Water condensed from air is probably more sterile than water coming out of the tap. ...

I don't think that's the case. When water condenses on a surface, any airborne contaminants would be in the mix as well. It's not the same as heat distilling.

Think about the water that condenses from your A/C coils. All the dirt in the air is flying through those coils as well. As youbet mentioned, if the coils are disinfected each night, maybe the risk is minimal, but I would count on the condensate being sterile.

But as most others, I also am not interested in any kind of salad bar or buffet where the food has been out for many people to access for who knows how long.

Have you ever looked inside the pipes in your home? You'd probably stop washing your salads with your tap water.

And municipal supplies have ~ 2 ppm of chlorine. There might be crud in your pipes, but it's (mostly) safe crud!

-ERD50

 

[Texas Proud]

If restaurant management does not act or explain to your satisfaction, then you might consider dropping a nickle to the health department.

Wow... that show how old you are... I have never heard 'drop a nickel'.... drop a dime, yes....

The last time I saw a pay phone it was 25 cents.... I think they are more now, but I have not looked and a quick search kinda show 50 cents, but say it is up to the phone owner...

 

[Senator]

I would guess that is you took a bacteria swab from that salad bar, and a baby's face, you would gladly eat the salad bar rather than kiss the baby...

Things are generally not as bad as they are thought to be.

 

[JoeWras]

Condensation dripping on food is a huge problem. Something is wrong. Doesn't matter that it condenses, which is sterile, the problem is it provides a medium as it does this over time. This medium can fester all kinds of junk because it is not a hot or cold enough surface. It is just right for every pathogen on earth.

The biggest issue to me in salad bars is the tongs. People have crap on their hands (literally) and use the tong in front of you.

That said, I still go to salad bars. I live dangerously. I also went to our community pool and ingested, probably, some urine and crap there too. Way too many kids in the pool for me to not drink some pee. I like to do a few laps an inevitably ingest some water. Try not to, but so it goes.

Such is life. Not everyone has this tolerance. I do, however, try to bring a little hand sanitizer with me if we go to the bar. It helps a bit.

I mean, yeah, the bad ecoli strains will kill you. But we cannot all live in a bubble. Some are theorizing that the rise in allergies is due to trying to raise kids in a bubble. Sounds plausible because your immune system needs something to do. Give it some exercise. Eat at a salad bar.

 

[Senator]

I also went to our community pool and ingested, probably, some urine and crap there too. Way too many kids in the pool for me to not drink some pee. I like to do a few laps an inevitably ingest some water. Try not to, but so it goes.

There was a time a lifeguard yelled at me for peeing in the pool. He yelled so loud, I almost fell in...

 

[Blueskies123]

It is a curious thing how some people dwell on restaurant food preparation. For some it seems to be an obsession, like with Seinfeld. I am not saying anyone should eat dirty or spoiled food but the devil in details, like what defines dirty. Do you not hold the hand rail when you walk down the stairs? I am sure those are 1000 times dirtier than tongs.
For millions of years our ancestors wandered the plains and forests eating much dirtier food. Did they wash their hands or food before eating?

 

[MRG]

It is a curious thing how some people dwell on restaurant food preparation. For some it seems to be an obsession, like with Seinfeld. I am not saying anyone should eat dirty or spoiled food but the devil in details, like what defines dirty. Do you not hold the hand rail when you walk down the stairs? I am sure those are 1000 times dirtier than tongs.
For millions of years our ancestors wandered the plains and forests eating much dirtier food. Did they wash their hands or food before eating?

Dirt is one thing, Salmonella is completely different. Till your in the bathroom for 2 days and hospitalized for 3 more you really can't appreciate what can happen from eating a little "dirt".

Eating a little Salmonella doesn't build up a resistance or make you stronger. But if you like to try please post your results.

 

[HFWR]

Have eaten at buffets and salad bars many times, thankfully with no ill effects. But, frankly, I don't eat enough to make a buffet worthwhile. Heck, most restaurant meals are about twice what my appetite requires, so to-go boxes are a norm...

 

[JoeWras]

Dirt is one thing, Salmonella is completely different. Till your in the bathroom for 2 days and hospitalized for 3 more you really can't appreciate what can happen from eating a little "dirt".

Eating a little Salmonella doesn't build up a resistance or make you stronger. But if you like to try please post your results.

And that's what worries me about this condensation issue. Some of the worst cases of food poisoning come from "drip drip" kind of issues. One that comes to mind is the peanut butter salmonella outbreak due to a leaky roof.

I made a bit of light of the dirty tongs and pee in the pool. But, yeah, you are right, salmonella is not to be messed with. Dripping water in a cooler, or storing chicken above vegetables are not to be messed with.

Still, we all have to live. I choose to not live in a cocoon. To each their own.

 

[Koolau]

If you see something, say something. Still, serious food poisoning is relatively rare - which is why it's such big news when it happens. The only way to stop the issues of food "bars" is to ban them. I don't think the cure is worth the disease.

Having said this, I inspect food bars and watch "behavior" before I partake. YMMV

 

[devans0]

Still safer than what I see at some family picnic get togethers. Not that that is an endorsement.

 

[Senator]

Still safer than what I see at some family picnic get togethers. Not that that is an endorsement.

Or the seat in the grocery cart, at the grocery store. That is where the kids in diapers sit, and most people put food on the seat if they do not have kids riding in the cart.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Or the seat in the grocery cart, at the grocery store. That is where the kids in diapers sit, and most people put food on the seat if they do not have kids riding in the cart.

^This. I am not a big fan of buffets (the only time I *thought* I might have had food poisoning was after eating from a salad bar in Spain) but I will eat at them on occasion. Every one knows that lots of people get sick from eating stuff they buy and prepare themselves, right? I would guess that about 75% of personal kitchens would FAIL most health inspections.

And nasty? How about the table tray on an airplane (or ANY interior surface of an airplane/bus). Or the TV remote control in a hotel. Or ANY cell phone. Bottom line...the world is NASTY...so WASH YOUR HANDS!