Shutdown-Follow up

[michelek]

What about the issue of people working and not getting paid. There will be lots of people that did work not and also got paid..doesn't really seem equitable IOW some workers got paid vacation

That’s true. All employees will get the back pay. Some had to report for duty, the others get a paid vacation.
Smart government employees will have a side hustle to which they can devote more attention during their PTO. Side hustle will enable early retirement earlier than their colleagues who might live paycheck to paycheck without options

 

[MarieIG]

One of my sons is Boarder Patrol. He has patrolled in the desert in 118 degree heat, apprehended with his team on multiple occasions armed drug dealers, found dead bodies, has been dehydrated and injured on the job. Congress has played with the number of hours that they have to work and it not being overtime. No, he's not getting paid and he's not calling in sick because he takes his responsibilities seriously.

He is financially responsible and has put money aside so he is ok. But frankly, it is not his not getting paid that is of the most concern to me; it is his not getting killed. It is a dangerous and thankless job.

 

[Aerides]

Vacation implies choice, relaxation, pleasure.

If I'm told "don't come to work, you aren't getting paid now, but will be...eventually, and oh don't go too far as we can call you back on a day's notice" - sorry no that's not a vacation in my book. If I were on this forced furlough, and a friend said they considered me as being on vacation... I don't think I'd consider them a friend much longer.

 

[Cut-Throat]

Shutdown:
34 days so far...XXXXXXX workers... no work being done.

What work that the XXXXXX people didn't do still needs doing.
What happens to the backlog?

Will more people be hired to catch up on the backlog? cost?
Will the people who come back have to work overtime @$$$ to catch up?

If not, were all those people necessary in the first place?

Your assumptions are mostly incorrect...... People are working without getting paid.


Not sure what job you did for a living, but were you necessary in the first Place? --- Just asking.

 

[susswein]

Agreed that this is not a vacation for the workers involved, but I have little sympathy for the folks who've been working for the federal government for years without setting aside an emergency fund.


Maybe the government should fund a mandatory financial planning seminar for all employees?

 

[SmallCityDave]

Vacation implies choice, relaxation, pleasure.

If I'm told "don't come to work, you aren't getting paid now, but will be...eventually, and oh don't go too far as we can call you back on a day's notice" - sorry no that's not a vacation in my book. If I were on this forced furlough, and a friend said they considered me as being on vacation... I don't think I'd consider them a friend much longer.

I certainly don't envy their position but I wouldn't complain if it happened to me.... perhaps I do envy their position

 

[Texas Proud]

But they will be paid for not working,I don't know what else to call it.

If you go to the Dr you are being paid for not working and it is not a vacation... if you have a baby and are paid for not working it is not a vacation... sure, it is PTO but calling it a vacation is a stretch IMO...

 

[Talkjk]

Planning for a rainy day is part of being a construction worker. Your job as a construction tradesman is to work yourself out of a job. As your trade wraps up the portion of the building you hope that the sales team has a new job for you to move too. But typicaly you get laid off or sit at home for days or weeks waiting for the next big jod to start. If weather is bad you don't work. You dont get paid. You have to plan for it. Unfortunately to many people don't plan for a rainy day. I would think that the seasoned government employee that may have gone through this before has a fund set aside. The younger or newer employees might not have.

 

[KB]

Those who are furloughed will not be receiving a pay check according to a person I know who is in that position. Those who are working will be receiving a retroactive paycheck.

 

[ivinsfan]

If you go to the Dr you are being paid for not working and it is not a vacation... if you have a baby and are paid for not working it is not a vacation... sure, it is PTO but calling it a vacation is a stretch IMO...

PRO would be a better description.some government employees are in that situation.

 

[Music Lover]

Planning for a rainy day is part of being a construction worker. Your job as a construction tradesman is to work yourself out of a job. As your trade wraps up the portion of the building you hope that the sales team has a new job for you to move too. But typicaly you get laid off or sit at home for days or weeks waiting for the next big jod to start. If weather is bad you don't work. You dont get paid. You have to plan for it. Unfortunately to many people don't plan for a rainy day. I would think that the seasoned government employee that may have gone through this before has a fund set aside. The younger or newer employees might not have.

I was a govt employee. When I was younger a longer shutdown at the wrong time would have caused me some hardship. But when I got older I would have enjoyed one.

Construction workers learn very early that there will be times with no work, but it's easy for a full time employee to get complacent...especially if they're government workers. But if construction workers were given the same hours and benefits of govt employees then they'd probably act exactly the same. People are people.

 

[donheff]

Back to the OP, shutdowns generally seem fairly benign since the feds go out of their way to avoid catastrophes by requiring "essential" personnel to work without pay but that doesn't mean nothing is getting screwed up in the background. It is just that you don't see it and therefore wonder if it needs being done. In many cases only a handful of people are directly involved and feel the pain, while the rest of us snicker about no effect. Think farmers who don't get subsidies, grants not processed, firms that spent time and money preparing contract proposals left hanging. If criminal investigations fall behind, we would never notice but the delay could derail prosecutions and society as a whole is effected.

It makes sense to question the value of specific programs and to vote accordingly. It makes no sense to even allow politicians to use shutdowns (or debt ceilings) as bludgeons to coerce action.

 

[marko]

Vacation implies choice, relaxation, pleasure.

If I'm told "don't come to work, you aren't getting paid now, but will be...eventually, and oh don't go too far as we can call you back on a day's notice" - sorry no that's not a vacation in my book. If I were on this forced furlough, and a friend said they considered me as being on vacation... I don't think I'd consider them a friend much longer.

I certainly don't envy their position but I wouldn't complain if it happened to me.... perhaps I do envy their position

I mentioned on another thread that we met a couple of furlough'ed folks down here on the beach in Florida. They were from somewhere cold up north and decided to take advantage of the time off and get some beach time.

I know not everyone can do this but they apparently had set aside some savings and were trying to make the best of a bad situation.

 

[imoldernu]

Your assumptions are mostly incorrect...... People are working without getting paid.

That's why there was no number of persons not working. FYI... the government allows necessary persons to work in all departments and some departments are still funded. Others are furloughed... not working. Many, who expect to be paid eventually, are working without any guarantee they will be paid.

Not sure what job you did for a living, but were you necessary in the first Place? --- Just asking.

Was that a necessary question? ... Just sayin'

 

[njhowie]

Your assumptions are mostly incorrect...... People are working without getting paid.

Not sure what job you did for a living, but were you necessary in the first Place? --- Just asking.

His point was, that for a very large swath who are furloughed and not working, they will be paid.

All the other statements/questions raised are applicable and relevant as a result.

 

[Montecfo]

It is easy to say that people are not paid enough to save etc. But I know many federal workers at all ages and pay levels who are unprepared for a furlough or other emergency.

Let's face it: it is a part of life as a federal employee.

 

[zinger1457]

Those who are furloughed will not be receiving a pay check according to a person I know who is in that position. Those who are working will be receiving a retroactive paycheck.

There was a bill signed that guarantees everyone (even those furloughed) will eventually get paid. Don't believe that includes contractors working for the government, they may be out of luck.

 

[LOL!]

Not only will many contractors not be paid, but all the people that sell goods and services to the furloughed such as grocery stores, Amazon, restaurants, gas stations will not benefit from the shutdown.

Indeed, people may realize that they could (had to!) spend less while furloughed and decide to build up bigger emergency funds by spending less going forward for several months.

 

[MichaelB]

Bloomberg is reporting the FAA has halted flights into La Guardia due to staff shortages. It’s just a headline, though,with reference to some twitter comments. If this is correct we’ll soon see some legitimate reports.

 

[jazz4cash]

It is easy to say that people are not paid enough to save etc. But I know many federal workers at all ages and pay levels who are unprepared for a furlough or other emergency.

Let's face it: it is a part of life as a federal employee.

I can make the exact same statement for many folks in the private sector as well so I don’t get your point. We’ve had many paycheck to paycheck threads and links here for folks that do have ability to do better without singling out a particular segment of the workforce. It says more about the state of personal finances in general than anything else. We almost never had a proper emergency fund when the kids were young and growing. We faced lean times but were resourceful and lucky to push through. My concern remains with the contractors, vendors, and public safety.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-halted-as-shutdown-hits-air-traffic-staffing

 

[donheff]

The contracting situation is complex. Most critical Federal IT systems are maintained by contractors. Many systems are under consolidated management. At some point systems will fail because they are not staffed. Contractors don't work without pay and essential government IT staff are not available to step in. Undoubtedly many systems (e.g. Social Security) are funded out of secure sources (no year funds, trust funds) but not all. And somewhere or another a consolidated data center could be in jeopardy. What in the world happens, for example, if the air traffic control systems could not be maintained?

 

[imoldernu]

His point was, that for a very large swath who are furloughed and not working, they will be paid.

Hmmm... I agree... but there are no legal guarantees they will be paid. Payment will be as a result of litigating and passing a law that allows this. As of now, this does not exist. Same as for previous shutdowns.


.................................................................................................

Back to the overall situation. It appears that in the interim, many qualified workers who have the time on their hands, are looking around for different kinds of work for which they are qualified, and, which pays more. According to Zerohedge, many, many large corporations are looking for smart, qualified employees.
With unemployment at a low point, and experienced well salaried employees continuing to retire, experience and ability is at a premium.
This kind of employee loss, then creates a high government expense to replace lost workers.

The same kind of overall economy additional negative affect comes in the private sector. Contractors who work on government projects, have no guarantees. Projects that were in process.... are stopped. Workers are let go with no pay. When the government restarts, it means rehiring, and retraining , all at the private contractor's expense.

The press is now concentrating on safety... particularly airline safety. Lots of talk about strikes and shutdowns. Have you ever looked at the airplane location map? Interviews with a head government officer and the steward union leader were on TV...A scary thing when these people say that airline safety is becoming tenuous, and that passengers show real concern with questions and seeking assurance. The anticipated traffic for the Super Bowl is a major worry.
I urge you to go to this website to see the planes in the air over the US and the world. 5,000 planes over the US at one time.

https://planefinder.net/

 

[Cut-Throat]

Was that a necessary question? ... Just sayin'

Your original Post asked the same question, so obviously you thought it was necessary.

 

[MichaelB]

Looks like we have a termprary respite from the shutdown. From Reuters https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...kers-to-end-government-shutdown-idUSKCN1PJ126

President Donald Trump said on Friday he has reached a deal with U.S. lawmakers for three weeks in stop-gap funding that would end a partial U.S. government shutdown now in its 35th day

 

[njhowie]

Hmmm... I agree... but there are no legal guarantees they will be paid. Payment will be as a result of litigating and passing a law that allows this. As of now, this does not exist. Same as for previous shutdowns.

All the government workers furloughed are going to be paid within the next 3 weeks. Not sure where you're getting your ideas about litigating.

It's been announced, it's a done deal. The exact words were "I will make sure that ALL employees receive their back pay very quickly or as soon as possible. It'll happen fast"".