Shutdown-Follow up

[foxfirev5]

The shutdown may be on temporary hiatus, but the damage has been done for many indirect casualties. The few gov't workers that will get their back pay will get the headlines but the rest are left with lost weeks. No way going out and getting a loan will help them.

 

[marko]

The shutdown may be on temporary hiatus, but the damage has been done for many indirect casualties. The few gov't workers that will get their back pay will get the headlines but the rest are left with lost weeks. .

I didn't know that. I thought everyone got paid eventually.

Can you provide me with a reference?

 

[Nick12]

All the government workers furloughed are going to be paid within the next 3 weeks. Not sure where you're getting your ideas about litigating.

It's been announced, it's a done deal. The exact words were "I will make sure that ALL employees receive their back pay very quickly or as soon as possible. It'll happen fast"".

ALL is a loaded term, most respectfully. Government contractors such as cleaning services, cafeteria workers, security services etc are probably not going to be lucky to get back pay.

 

[pb4uski]

I didn't know that. I thought everyone got paid eventually. ...

Federal employees will get back pay, but government contractor employees and employees of businesses impacted will never get made whole.

 

[marko]

Federal employees will get back pay, but government contractor employees and employees of businesses impacted will never get made whole.

That's what I thought.

My question was because a poster said "...the few gov't workers that will get their back pay will get the headlines..."

I took that to mean that only a few gov't workers would get paid. Maybe I misunderstood the comment.

 

[karen1972]

Usually when the talk about costs, it really lost revenue, like the parks/museums being closed means people cancelled plans and that money is just gone. Contractors won't get paid, so that is lost income and all of it combined impacts GDP and tax revenue.

As for workers, I'm sure there will be a backlog for a long time in some areas, some things they just can't do anything about (ie. food wasn't inspected during this time period, so if there was a salmonella outbreak... umm I don't know)

There may be some overtime (like janitorial cleaning in the parks) but it won't be equal to what they lost. The biggest cost may be retaining staff going forward.

 

[aaronc879]

My employer can tell me not to come to work for a few weeks and I get paid for those weeks when I eventually return to work. They can do that as often as they like. How is this a bad thing for the worker? It's bad for the taxpayer, not the worker.

 

[imoldernu]

All the government workers furloughed are going to be paid within the next 3 weeks. Not sure where you're getting your ideas about litigating.

It's been announced, it's a done deal. The exact words were "I will make sure that ALL employees receive their back pay very quickly or as soon as possible. It'll happen fast"".

Roughly 800,000 federal workers missed two paychecks because of the longest government shutdown in US history. But with the government finally set to reopen, they should receive the pay they missed in just a few days — if all goes according to plan.

Congress has already passed, and President Donald Trump already signed, a bill guaranteeing back pay for affected federal workers (and making the same guarantee for future shutdowns). Now that President Trump has relented on funding for his Mexican border wall and announced he would sign a short-term spending bill ending the shutdown, those employees will start to be made whole under that legislation.

Up to this time, all government shutdowns, by law, required the enaction of a law to pay for hours not worked. I guess I'm not clear about the difference between a bill and a law. Mea Culpa.. (i think0

Edit:

A bill does not become law until it is passed by the legislature and, in most cases, approved by the executive. Once a bill has been enacted into law, it is called an Act. In a simple word: The difference is that a bill is a proposed law that has not been passed yet, and a law has been passed.

 

[timo2]

I'm not hearing enough about the contractors affected. And there are probably at least as many contract employees as federal employees. Not all of them work for the giant proverbial 'Beltway Bandits'. The giant companies may make some of their employees whole, or at least covered their health insurance, 401K etc. There are a lot of small business set asides in the contracting pool. These small companies would have the most difficult time weathering a long period of no cash flow, and that means their employees are just SOL also.

 

[imoldernu]

Agree with timo2.

One more thing about receiving back pay... this WP article explains why those who were furloughed made out WAAY better than those who stayed on as "necessary". Incredible that some will not only receive back pay, but the equivalent of special benefits while working, and equivalent overtime and special duty pay... even though they weren't there. Those who stayed the course and worked through it all, just receive their normal pay.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/01/24/back-pay-furloughed-federal-employees-include-add-ons/?utm_term=.d35f544c82b1

In any case, it's over... at least for the next three weeks. I secretly believe it was because the government (all three parts) would never survive the travel shutdown for the SuperBowl.

 

[foxfirev5]

I didn't know that. I thought everyone got paid eventually.

Can you provide me with a reference?

The few i refer to are the govt employees. The rest are not govt employees. The fixation on the 800k employees misses the big picture of the millions.

 

[MRG]

In any case, it's over... at least for the next three weeks. I secretly believe it was because the government (all three parts) would never survive the travel shutdown for the SuperBowl.

Consider Atlanta and it's air traffic; the potential revenue for the city. In my opinion, it wouldn't be anything most folks would like on their resume. [emoji1]

I'm glad something is happening.

 

[njhowie]

My employer can tell me not to come to work for a few weeks and I get paid for those weeks when I eventually return to work. They can do that as often as they like. How is this a bad thing for the worker? It's bad for the taxpayer, not the worker.

It's bad for the worker if they do not have the savings to cover their living expenses during the period where they aren't receiving a paycheck. Some folks will miss the mortgage or rent payment, others the car payment. Certainly you've seen the stories of government workers at food pantries and soup kitchens. Isn't having to resort to that bad for the worker?

https://www.kare11.com/article/news...check/89-69e2a73f-c177-453d-9e97-c73a7cafc014

 

[imoldernu]

Here's the breakdown of the 800,000.

More than 420,000 federal employees had to work without pay. An additional 380,000 were furloughed — meaning sent home without pay.

As to the contractors? i don't think we'll ever know the total trickle down effects.

We'll never know how many people had their home buying plans changed... the number of farmers who will plant without the guidance of the Dept of agriculture, the companies who lost employees because they couldn't pay them, the cost to rehire new employees and train them, because the shutdown led them to new jobs. How many people who live paycheck to paycheck will suffer, and how many will lose their credit standing...and on and on.

The government may stop, but the world goes on. Who knows how much will be lost? Pick your area of concern.

 

[marko]

The few i refer to are the govt employees. The rest are not govt employees. The fixation on the 800k employees misses the big picture of the millions.

Thanks. I misunderstood your post.

 

[foxfirev5]

No problem. I often fail to explain myself in detail. Just ask my DW

 

[GrayHare]

Started work on taxes and I see a number of 2018 forms have not yet been released by the IRS. I wonder if the shutdown is part of the delay.

 

[jazz4cash]

Agree with timo2.



In any case, it's over... at least for the next three weeks. I secretly believe it was because the government (all three parts) would never survive the travel shutdown for the SuperBowl.

A NO Saints player jokingly blamed the horrible "no call" in the NFC Championship game on the shutdown. Maybe the Gov't was afraid they'd get blamed for blown calls in The Big Game.

 

[Amethyst]

That certainly describes my first couple of years on my own, as a Fed, until I landed an overtime gig by sheer luck and started making a little bank. If I had missed a biweekly check, I would have gone hungry, and I was too skinny back then as it was.

When I was 26? Of course I'd heard of it, that was something other people had. I was making just enough to cover rent, gas, basics, etc. And I didn't have a family to raise.

I'm sure I'm not the only one here who spent many of my younger years living paycheck-to-paycheck, and many more still with an emergency fund of $500 + credit cards.

I wasn't stupid, I wasn't splurging, I had a roommate. I just wasn't making very much money, like a lot of people when they are starting out.

Was probably 32+ before I had real cash savings to cover a long period.

 

[RetireBy90]

Here's the breakdown of the 800,000.


As to the contractors? i don't think we'll ever know the total trickle down effects.

We'll never know how many people had their home buying plans changed... the number of farmers who will plant without the guidance of the Dept of agriculture, the companies who lost employees because they couldn't pay them, the cost to rehire new employees and train them, because the shutdown led them to new jobs. How many people who live paycheck to paycheck will suffer, and how many will lose their credit standing...and on and on.

The government may stop, but the world goes on. Who knows how much will be lost? Pick your area of concern.

Was a contractor for 6 years, we did one shutdown for couple weeks. My govt rep had pre-funded our contract so I was able to keep 6 of 8 on my task employed. The other 2 got a week of work at the company HQ and then a week or so without pay. So just one example. The whole story IMHO is there is a great impact on some and minor on others but can't say it is a good thing no matter how you want to look at it there will be impacts.

 

[donheff]

I think the media misses the boat by largely ignoring contractors. I had about 100 Feds working for me and a little over 100 contractors. When we were furloughed I always worried more about my contractors because they were SOL if their employer couldn't cover them during the shutdown. Most of those affected who worked for big tech companies got paid (sometimes working on outside projects) some were just temporarily laid off. I imagine this 5 week shutdown was disastrous for a lot of them.

As for the Feds, so far Congress has always awarded back pay to furloughed employees but there is no prospective guarantee that they will do so. I can assure you that in some past periods of anti-government political rhetoric a lot of furloughed Feds were worried that back pay would not be forthcoming. Essential employees are not furloughed and are guaranteed eventual back back for the work they do.

 

[Amethyst]

I have always worked with the really big contractors (the famous Beltway Bandits). From what I heard, they were paid retroactively after furloughs (and of course this time around, DoD has a budget). Most had scarce skills; their companies didn't want them jumping ship.

But small, non-defense companies? Some of them are probably barely hanging on at this point. I am surprised to have read so little about this. No doubt more stories of contractor woe will shake out, now that the big "Will the government ever open up again" story is over.

Also you are correct; during furloughs (I was always "essential," for some reason) we were solemnly informed that there was no guarantee we would see back pay, although it was considered likely.

I think the media misses the boat by largely ignoring contractors. I had about 100 Feds working for me and a little over 100 contractors. When we were furloughed I always worried more about my contractors because they were SOL if their employer couldn't cover them during the shutdown. Most of those affected who worked for big tech companies got paid (sometimes working on outside projects) some were just temporarily laid off. I imagine this 5 week shutdown was disastrous for a lot of them.

As for the Feds, so far Congress has always awarded back pay to furloughed employees but there is no prospective guarantee that they will do so. I can assure you that in some past periods of anti-government political rhetoric a lot of furloughed Feds were worried that back pay would not be forthcoming. Essential employees are not furloughed and are guaranteed eventual back back for the work they do.

 

[ERD50]

The whole thing sounds like Kubuki Theater. Shouldn't the system be changed?

Unless I have it wrong here, the same group that approves the budget than has to approve the spending of the budget that they approved? That sounds like an old Seinfeld skit (you took the reservation, but you didn't hold the reservation! - You approved the budget, but you didn't approve spending the budget! That's the most important part of a reservation/budget!).

At MegaCorp, yes, spending on an approved budget had to be approved, but those approvals were at a lower level. The highest level approved the overall budget, then the spending controls were delegated.

This just seems like bureaucracy on top of bureaucracy. And the above is totally non-partisan, to be clear - it applies to all.

-ERD50

 

[cathy63]

I think the media misses the boat by largely ignoring contractors. I had about 100 Feds working for me and a little over 100 contractors. When we were furloughed I always worried more about my contractors because they were SOL if their employer couldn't cover them during the shutdown. Most of those affected who worked for big tech companies got paid (sometimes working on outside projects) some were just temporarily laid off. I imagine this 5 week shutdown was disastrous for a lot of them.

I was a manager at a small biz government contractor during the 2013 shutdown and lost two good employees as a result of furloughing them without pay for just two weeks. So far this month I've been asked to be a reference for three of my former employees, and I see from LinkedIn and Facebook updates that at least one other has also gotten a new job. I'm sure there are a few more I don't know about yet, and in a strong job market like this, it's awfully hard to hire good people to replace them when you just made everybody go 5 weeks without pay and another shutdown is threatened for 3 weeks from now. Some of the people who are leaving have been working on these systems for many years and a lot of institutional knowledge is walking out the door with them, so restarting projects is not going to be as simple as saying "o.k, everybody back to work".

For the individual employees, during the shutdown they were allowed to use whatever PTO they had, and then they had to go one week with no pay before receiving unemployment, which is at most 50% of their salary. They also had to pay for 100% of their January health insurance premiums (the company usually picks up 80% of the single employee cost). The company has lost about 10% of its expected revenue on those contracts this year, which means there's less money in the profit sharing pot so those payments will be that much smaller when they're handed out in October.

The people I've spoken to don't seem to be in dire straits financially, though they might not tell me if they were, but morale is extremely low. They're really depressed and frustrated and feel betrayed by a government that doesn't honor its contracts.

 

[donheff]

The whole thing sounds like Kubuki Theater. Shouldn't the system be changed?

Unless I have it wrong here, the same group that approves the budget than has to approve the spending of the budget that they approved? That sounds like an old Seinfeld skit (you took the reservation, but you didn't hold the reservation! - You approved the budget, but you didn't approve spending the budget! That's the most important part of a reservation/budget!).


-ERD50

In the shutdown case the budget has not yet been approved thus the need for action. It could be avoided by an automatic continuing resolution in the event of budget impasse.

Your description does apply to the insane debt ceiling which comes up soon. Congress andalrove the budget and allocate the funds but when the debt ceiling is hit spending stops until Congress raises the ceiling.