Shutdown-Follow up

Of course I don't know what those people meant (maybe they meant a HELOC?
Or was this back when any loan interest was tax-deductible?), but I was taught that you should keep a good credit rating, so you could get a loan whenever you needed one.

marko said:
When I was a kid I remember people saying "Yes, but it's a good thing to always have a loan; you should always have a loan out there", like it was a good financial plan or something. I think the idea was that it built up good credit...so you could get another loan.

Or something equally idiotic.
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Amethyst said:
Of course I don't know what those people meant (maybe they meant a HELOC?
Or was this back when any loan interest was tax-deductible?), but I was taught that you should keep a good credit rating, so you could get a loan whenever you needed one.
Click to expand...
Heard the same sales pitch too -- build up good credit, so proud of my good credit rating, get another loan, and another and another. Slaves to debt to fuel our spend and spend economy. Suze Orman ( 20 million net worth) who I don't care for, tries to convince people to work until 70. Keep contributing into the economy. Not for me and the others that I hang out with who have retired early.
 
This shut down was great, for us. Wife is a federal employee. She was able to work a couple hours a day from home...never having to go to the office. We were fortunate enough to have plenty of money to weather the storm however long the shut down went on for.

I feel for the people who struggled. Yes, they should have an emergency fund...but everyones situation is different. Not always black/white. People do live paycheck to paycheck. And, anyone who works for the government knows...the pay isnt always the best. Although in my wifes situation, her pay is really good.
 
That's because some people, yourself included, have the ability to think for themselves.

I mean, I was insistently offered drugs all through college, and "everyone" acted like drugs were cool and harmless, but that didn't mean I had to take drugs. Same with any other advice or temptation: Don't let others do your thinking for you.

Nick12 said:
Heard the same sales pitch too -- build up good credit, so proud of my good credit rating, get another loan, and another and another. Slaves to debt to fuel our spend and spend economy. Suze Orman ( 20 million net worth) who I don't care for, tries to convince people to work until 70. Keep contributing into the economy. Not for me and the others that I hang out with who have retired early.
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imoldernu said:
Shutdown:
/snipped content/
How does this get fixed without effect on the economy... and you and me?
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Once a tool like this is used, there's no fixing. There will be another closing someday. The paychecks will begin very soon, but the damage is done (though papered over). The additional stress that was forced upon civil service workers was taking its toll. Many equate highly paid with Gov't jobs. The phrase fits some, but not all.
The effect on the economy will take some time to reveal itself in future statistics.
 
This morning's Washington Post has a good article (may be a pay wall) about the impact of the shutdown on disabled workers. Lots of them are going without pay and have special hardships.

"As the shutdown draws to a close, thousands of disabled federal contract workers are still in limbo
These contractors are unlikely to get back pay or even a job guarantee"
 
target2019 said:
Many equate highly paid with Gov't jobs. The phrase fits some, but not all.
The effect on the economy will take some time to reveal itself in future statistics.
Click to expand...

Very true, one only has to look at the GS pay scales to see that those starting out in government jobs or in non skilled positions are not living high on the hog. I worked in an engineering group for DOD and new engineering graduates were typically starting out at a lower salary than they could make in industry, made it difficult to hire for entry level positions.
 
aaronc879 said:
Like most companies, the bottom people are underpaid while the top are over paid. Most of them should be able to save some money every month.
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You might have it backwards regarding that pay table. IMO the top grades are underpaid and the bottom grades are well paid relative to the private sector.



In my R&D org a 15 would be a division head managing 100 people (plus on-site contractors) or a program manager with a $20M+ portfolio of funding for various projects to oversee. The technical 15s (me) either are considered world-class experts in a narrow specialty, or are senior scientists (well published and highly experienced PHDs who direct the research and retain institutional knowledge). $150k / year for the above capabilities and responsibilities is not excessive.


On the low end, the pay and benefits are pretty good given the lack of unique skills needed to perform the job. We have very senior "financial analysts", who are essentially admins with long experience, making GS14 money. The new ones come in as GS7s I believe and move up at a reasonable pace. You'll find the same in the procurement codes. Not too many places a secretary or CC buyer can find that kind of job security, benefits, and solid pay.
 
Proteus126 said:
You might have it backwards regarding that pay table. IMO the top grades are underpaid and the bottom grades are well paid relative to the private sector.



In my R&D org a 15 would be a division head managing 100 people (plus on-site contractors) or a program manager with a $20M+ portfolio of funding for various projects to oversee. The technical 15s (me) either are considered world-class experts in a narrow specialty, or are senior scientists (well published and highly experienced PHDs who direct the research and retain institutional knowledge). $150k / year for the above capabilities and responsibilities is not excessive.


On the low end, the pay and benefits are pretty good given the lack of unique skills needed to perform the job. We have very senior "financial analysts", who are essentially admins with long experience, making GS14 money. The new ones come in as GS7s I believe and move up at a reasonable pace. You'll find the same in the procurement codes. Not too many places a secretary or CC buyer can find that kind of job security, benefits, and solid pay.
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Everyone is welcome to their own opinion of course. Mine is that no one making 6 figures is underpaid. No one making $150K is doing 5X the work of someone in the same organization working full time for $30K/yr or less. I wasn't considering GS7s as the bottom since 7 is in the middle of a 1-15 table. I was considering the bottom to be 5 or under since that would be the bottom 1/3. Most of them are under paid relative to the pay of the upper level people IMO.
 
aaronc879 said:
Everyone is welcome to their own opinion of course. Mine is that no one making 6 figures is underpaid. No one making $150K is doing 5X the work of someone in the same organization working full time for $30K/yr or less. I wasn't considering GS7s as the bottom since 7 is in the middle of a 1-15 table. I was considering the bottom to be 5 or under since that would be the bottom 1/3. Most of them are under paid relative to the pay of the upper level people IMO.
Click to expand...

GS level will depend on the type of work. As a computer programmer/analyst if I remember you could start at a GS7 or 9 and progress to a 12 in rapid time. Most of the positions were 9/11/12 so you could get next grade without having to find a new job. I never was civil side but military where about 1/2 of the unit was civilian. Nobody ever less than a 7.

Pay may not be great when compared to google but then you get defined benefit retirement plan. Paid now or later ?
 
Those darn ladies! Always after me for money! :ROFLMAO:

marko said:
Warren Buffet is right on when he (or Charlie Munger) said: "“There’s only three ways that a smart person can go broke…‘liquor, ladies, and leverage.” .
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aaronc879 said:
Everyone is welcome to their own opinion of course. Mine is that no one making 6 figures is underpaid. No one making $150K is doing 5X the work of someone in the same organization working full time for $30K/yr or less. I wasn't considering GS7s as the bottom since 7 is in the middle of a 1-15 table. I was considering the bottom to be 5 or under since that would be the bottom 1/3. Most of them are under paid relative to the pay of the upper level people IMO.
Click to expand...


Certainly everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Mine has the virtue of being informed, at least where my org is concerned.


GS 7 is entry level for a career employee, and is therefore "the bottom" for all intents. Think 24 year old right out of college. I don't think I've ever actually met a "5 or under", and I've been working here 25 years. Summer intern or Co-op?



Frankly, our senior scientist is worth twice what he gets paid (cue "he should work somewhere else" - he's a pro and has dedicated his life to the mission - its his choice). I'm horribly overpaid, of course...
 
Interesting article in the WaPo today regarding contractors suffering from the shutdown: here.

With the shutdown now over, Morgan, 62, is reporting back to her job Monday as an administrative planner for the Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration. But the mile marker of reopening federal offices belies the continued suffering and long-term financial damage on the legions of federal contractors whose lost wages may never be reimbursed. In the case of *Unispec, health insurance remains in limbo, and the next full paycheck may still be four weeks away.
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The contracting company is not blameless here. It's pretty appalling that their employees lost their health insurance and found out by having their claims denied. At least my former employer offered people the opportunity to pay the January premiums themselves. Most everything else in this article really rings true and brings up a lot of memories from last time. I feel for those who are waiting to see what will happen 3 weeks from now.
 
Cutting off health insurance like that is pretty harsh. Perhaps some might apply retroactively for COBRA to get their claims processed - although that also means meeting the annual deductible twice.
 
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