Sibling Doesn’t have a dime to his name

[rayinpenn]

I’ve got an app on my devise(s) called News360 basically you pick the categories you are interested in and articles from various sources are provided...one of my choices believe it or not is Retirement.

I know it is a well worn subject but I see it as a bit of a tidal wave. I guess I have a personal reason for paying attention.

From the motley fool....”The average 50-something American's savings level
So how much does the typical worker in his or her 50s have saved for retirement? The Economic Policy Institute reports that for households between 50 and 55, the average savings balance is $124,831. For those between 56 and 61, that number comes in a bit higher, at $163,577.

But these figures don't tell the whole story. Because a select pool of strong savers can bring up the average and compensate for poor savers, it's often more helpful to look at the median savings amount for these age groups. For households between 50 and 55, the median retirement account balance is just $8,000. For those between 56 and 61, it's $17,000 -- not much better. And when you have a situation where the median is considerably lower than the average, it means that most 50-somethings have less than average.

I have one sibling who I’m certain doesn’t have a dime (we rarely talk). It causes me great worry. I can’t and couldn’t live his working and saving life for him I certainly can’t live his retirement, but life hasn’t made it easy on him.

Anyone in the same boat who would care to chime in...
How do you make it work in your mind?

 

[GrayHare]

For households between 50 and 55, the median retirement account balance is just $8,000.

Yes, but we don't know how many accounts they have.

AFAIK, there is no all-around reasonable solution about non-saver siblings except to let them do their own thing.

 

[rayinpenn]

Yes, but we don't know how many accounts they have.

I’m sure for most people that is their “all in” number...

 

[GrayHare]

It would be interesting to know the median quantity. Between traditional and Roth, IRA and 401k, and inherited forms of all of those, the number of accounts can really add up even if all are at the same custodian. We're at 11 accounts here.

 

[Bigdawg]

my older S is 55. Her paid off house (mom gave it to her) is falling down around her. The insurance company drove by the house and then canceled the policy (that my mom was paying). She had her student loans paid down to maybe 2K. She lost her job but got an inheritance when my uncle passed-$150K Instead of paying off the 2K she used the 150K to live for aprox 6-8 years before finally getting another job. By that time her student loans balloned up to almost 50K (penalty and interest). She is working. Probably makes 40K. I have a townhouse near her that I rent. I recently got in a contract for deed because I don't want her begging to stay there when the town, county state condemns her house and throws her out. We barely talk. She told people that my DW and I were bad parents because we were active duty and we deployed.

 

[cooch96]

I’m sure for most people that is their “all in” number...

I think I read this article. As I recall, it discounted SS and pensions. This makes it not very useful, IMO.

As far as the sibling thing goes: I’ve steeled my heart about that. Two chose to spend their twenties smoking dope (DS is now approaching her 40s and is her husband’s problem) and the other has spent decades in academia accruing student debt. I’m pushing myself to the limit to attain wealth for myself and DW. I’ve been supporting DF for years (though he’s mostly paid it back and he did help raise me, no ill feelings at all) and expect DM will need support in the near future. I can’t take care of everyone.

 

[Souschef]

I think that every family has at least one person who was put on earth to be a bad example.
I have a cousin who blew through three inheritances. I have no sympathy for her whatsoever.

 

[easysurfer]

I don't know to feel sorry or like "I told you so" when I have family members what come of to me and say "Gosh, wish I was retired like you." Have three that come to mind. But looking back, as I was spending the time to w*rk hard and plan, they did none of that.

P.S. I think "device" is the spelling .

 

[ABQ2015]

One older brother built up a decent amount investing in oil drilling stocks but refused to diversify and his net worth from the stock and the house he sold is now less than $100K at age 65. He was also laid off from his oil related job so took early SS. This is his second big financial loss, the first was Enron. It seems he likes to play the market but does not invest sensibly.

Several months ago, he moved to the Philippines so it will be interesting to see if he can live on his income and have a good quality of life. My concern is his health as he is very overweight - doctors are inexpensive there but not so sure about cardiac care. I hope it goes well for him and that his stock comes back some. My other brother and I helped support him until he could sell his home and I don't want to go through that again.

Then there is my younger sister. She is 59 and single with no savings and lives in an apartment.

 

[Johnora]

I have one sibling who I’m certain doesn’t have a dime (we rarely talk). It causes me great worry. I can’t and couldn’t live his working and saving life for him I certainly can’t live his retirement, but life hasn’t made it easy on him.

Anyone in the same boat who would care to chime in...
How do you make it work in your mind?

I guess I feel just a little bit better knowing that I am not alone in this. My only other sibling has nothing at 50. Not working on having anything either and while I try to talk to him, absolutely no contact back. I am the older one and worry about him but had to come to the understanding that he is responsible for his actions or lack there of. It still hurts because it will catch up to him in the future and it will be painful for the rest of the family in one way or the other.

I have my family, kids and now grandkids and through lots of planning and discipline we are making things work very well. I fear a knock on the door in the future and have no idea how that would play out if it happens.

 

[bigcmagor]

My 58 year old brother hasn't worked in a decade and is probably unemployable. Too much experimentation with drugs and generally antisocial. He was living in a rented house that the owner wanted to unload, so my folks and I bought it for him - mainly so he wouldn't end up living in their basement again. My folks gift him $1,000 per month, which seems to be enough to get by. We provide a cell phone and hand me down computers and other things he can't provide for himself. We will provide more financial help if necessary because that's what family should do, provide there is the means to do it. I'm convinced he would have been found dead in a gutter years ago without the help he has received. That outcome would have been hard to live with.

 

[Senator]

I have a sister like that. She decided to get pregnant in college, drop out, and have kids. A far too common occurrence when people can't hack college. Then she got a divorce.

She eventually went back to college at age ~40, and got a masters, but was already too far behind the curve. She has five cats now.

She eventually married, and he is doing OK, so they are better off.

I do not give any money.

 

[rayinpenn]

I don't know to feel sorry or like "I told you so" when I have family members what come of to me and say "Gosh, wish I was retired like you." .

Before I went part time, I must admit to occasional bouts of retirement envy, usually when it is cold outside. It feels like my relatives retired as soon as they possibly could. I believe a number of things contributed to this. First and foremost not one enjoyed the blue collar work they were doing. For example: Dragging a fuel oil truck hose 100 feet to filler pipe can be exhausting at 50 years old and you are busiest when it is brutally cold out. Another had to be on the road by 5AM (awesome in summer but unpleasant for the winter) The one white collar person had been in group had the same role for over 20 years. If they had kids they did so in their 20s - by 55 the kids were fully independent.

Work Envy
I can leave my house at 8:20, drive the 9.5 miles to work, park in the indoor lot and be at my desk by 9:30. My work is diverse, challenging and usually interesting and I’m well compensated for my 3 day work week. I worked very hard to achieve this, just like the Mrs and I worked hard to build our retirement portfolio.

I think I’d rather enjoy work I did and stay until the time is right rather then retire early because I hated the work i did.

Ive heard it said that you are as rich or as poor as you choose to be. Being responsible isnt any fun...

 

[Tailgate]

Everyone seems to have a middle aged sibling with no job or employment prospects or resources.

I wonder how they answer the question: What do you do all day?

 

[pb4uski]

I feel blessed that all my siblings are doing well and none will be a burden on me.... same with DM and likely DD and DS.

 

[Chuckanut]

I don't know to feel sorry or like "I told you so" when I have family members what come of to me and say "Gosh, wish I was retired like you." Have three that come to mind. But looking back, as I .

I think part of the problem is that the "I wish I was retired like you" crowd only looks at the photograph taken today, and not the movie that has been recorded over 50+ years of life.

 

[Cassius King]

Another twist on this that could impact some. With this growing number of people with no savings AND social security continuing to be stretched. What is the likelihood that either our IRA/401k withdrawals are taxed more heavily or they implement taxes on Roth withdrawals to help cover these individuals? And if so, is that included in "your number"?

This has been a topic I've had in the back of my head for some time now. It somewhat bothers me that I can LBYM my entire life, be responsible and save, then have it taxed away to pay for others, or have my entire life savings taken away to cover medical payments.

There was a thread discussing this. Do you take your $1m nest egg, buy a beach house and nice car, then get subsidized medical like everyone else. At least this way you get to enjoy your life's work and not have it eaten away by taxes and medical.

 

[Dd852]

I feel relieved and better that I’m not alone in this. My sister doesn’t work and just gets by. I don’t and won’t give her money though I did pay for her health insurance one year. My mother does and of course she will be a beneficiary eventually. I do end up paying for EVERYTHING when we see each other, but that’s only a couple of times a year. People make their own choices.

 

[GrayHare]

I wonder how they answer the question: What do you do all day?

In my experience they shrug their shoulders, too embarassed to report what they really do. TV and video games all day or night?

 

[Sunset]

Nice to hear I'm not alone.
I have a sibling who always took the easy route, the least effort job around, even went on welfare at one point as that was easier than working.

Of course no savings, but has a small pension.
When a small inheritance of $50,000 came around it was taken out of the cd's I had put it in, and blown of cruises in 4 years.

Now my sibling's pension barely covers the supported living needed, so I give $4,000 per year to help out as it is family, but that is my limit as someone has to set a limit.

My sibling watches TV all day, the super junk shows where people yell at each other and the fake court show judge judy.. etc.. That and buy various stupid junk and candy at dollar stores,

 

[FIREd]

My sister readily admits that she does not save a cent for retirement. But she has some attenuating circumstances: her income is modest to start with; her spouse suffers from a crippling disease and does not work; and her kid is academically-gifted so she pays $$$ for a good school.

On the other hand, she is bound to inherit a pretty good amount of money by the time she retires, so I don't worry much about it.

 

[rodi]

My son to be ex BIL ran through 3 inheritances like someone else mentioned and is approaching retirement age. Fortunately his encore career is in academia do here can still make some income even as he gets older.

On DHs side there are two siblings that got the bill. One is on disability... So he'll have the same low income stream he currently has. The other is lamenting he won't get much SS when the time comes.... But he works odd jobs under the table.... I've advised him to get an in the books job... But he doesn't realize that paying SS taxes could help him in the long run. He has a paid off house... But no savings. Unfortunately, the handyman work here does and the morning lawns for the cemetery are both jobs that are harder as we get older.

 

[Mdlerth]

You can't live their lives for them

Ditto the posts which say "I'm relieved to find I'm not alone".

Both of my sisters are in their 50s and flat broke. Each has a combination of having been dealt a bad hand coupled with having made a lot of bad choices.

OTOH, up until very recently, each had been on the dole from our parents for a long time. Something north of $30k per year for the past ~20 years. DF kept a spreadsheet to make sure he didn't go over the annual gift tax limit, otherwise who knows how much the girls would've squeezed out of him.

I got zero, but in hindsight Mom and Dad didn't do their daughters any favors by playing favorites. The free money became an addiction for my sisters. Unfortunately, addictions typically end in pain. Now that M&D are in the memory care, the party's over and the girls are panicking.

One of them has already been trying to pressure me to fill the void. Sorry, but I'm not budgeted for that. And even if I did possess unbounded resources, it would pi$$ me off to see my generosity plowed into cigarettes and black market oxycontin.

Folks like that don't have a money problem, they have a behavioral problem. The lack of money is just a symptom; giving them another half million would just enable them to continue a wanton lifestyle for a longer time. Most likely they will go bankrupt and become wards of the state. Very sad, but I can't fix it.

 

[brett]

I have a SIL who is broke. They own their own house, but it has a large mortgage.

She is one of those types who thinks she 'deserves' things that she really cannot afford. As a result, she is a very good friend to the credit card companies. She also more concerned about what her friends and neighbours think of her than with her financial well being.

Bankrupt once and will probably loose the house when she retires. No savings, no pension but two nice cars in the driveway. There is no point in our helping her. She does not 'get' it. Others have helped her but no change.

 

[aja8888]

Two of DW's children from her first marriage are flat broke and on drugs (prescription ones, although I can't be sure). They are both products of their own divorces (one had two divorces), unemployed, no skills or education past high school, can't get on Medicaid in TX, and living with other people. Neither one has any savings. Very sad cases, but indicative as to what over prescribed pain pills will produce. One is 50, the other, 49, both with a child (grown and gone now).

We have helped them in the past several times and I am done with it. DW is not happy with my decision, but I say their father cane take the reins at this point.

So what happens to people that are broke, on drugs, have no savings, junk cars, dependent on friends or family, and can't get state aid when they reach retirement age? Somehow, I think there are a lot more people in this boat than I know.

DW's other daughter (49 years old) was going down this same path after a divorce but got lucky and married a guy who is a member of the Lucky Sperm Club (trust fund baby) and living the good life (so far). Mr. Lucky doesn't work (never has) and has a lot of toys. I have no idea where this will end.