Sincere apology to Tiger

[easysurfer]

PGA Championship which used to be played in August as the last of the season's majors has been moved to May. The weekend of the 18th I think. You'll not have long to wait.

Unfortunately, I may not be able to watch live on the 18th but that's what the smart phone and news flashes are for. Thanks.

 

[HFWR]

absolutely!



how can you call the hundreds of millions of dollars that get funnelled annually via charity golf tournaments to organizations like make a wish, st jude, habitat for humanity....heroic?

Change the narrative?

Okay, you win...

 

[eytonxav]

To me hero means our first responders, armed forces personnel serving in combat situations, civilians that put themselves in danger to save others are the real heroes. Nevertheless, I suppose hero could be applicable if prefaced with sports (sports hero), but even with that, usually it requires other redeeming character traits aside from just pure performance. Anyhow, I guess there is no denying that Tiger has made a miraculous comeback from both a physical and emotional perspective that no one thought possible and I can appreciate him for that.

 

[scaubie]

The back 9 at Augusta is a reverent place for sure. This year was so exciting with all the big names on the leaderboard. I was pulling for Tiger! Glad to see the win. During his prime I was not a Tiger fan. My son and I would go to PGA tournaments and Tiger was very cold to the crowds and especially to autograph seeking kids after the rounds. All the other golfers would sign anything and stay a long time but Tiger would briskly walk past the autograph area and his caddie would grab a couple things for him to sign as he walked and then he was gone. Saw this many times. Els, Michelson, Daly, Sing...etc were much friendlier to the fans. Just my 2 cents.

 

[gooddog]

Although I wish him well, I wouldn't go overboard on Tiger's chances in the future. His win at the Masters was very similar to Nicklaus in 1986. Key players happened to make a mess of things just at the right time, and without that neither Tiger or Nicklaus would have won their respective Masters. Tiger might have one more in him, maybe even two - but getting to the magic number of 19 is a stretch.

Played Augusta National on my golf simulator yesterday and shot 74....and didn't dunk one in Ray's creek.

 

[Midpack]

Pretty much everyone is a hero now. That term has been thrown around so much over the last couple years...its lost a lot of meaning. Its unfortunate.

To me hero means our first responders, armed forces personnel serving in combat situations, civilians that put themselves in danger to save others are the real heroes.

+1. I subscribe to the classic definition of “hero” too.

A hero is a person who, in the face of danger, combats adversity through feats of ingenuity, bravery or strength; who perform great deeds or selfless acts for the common good instead of the goal of wealth, pride and fame.

Sports hero is a non-starter to me too. An athlete can certainly be a hero for other actions, but not by virtue of playing their sport. Tiger is arguably the best golfer ever, but not a hero by any means, there’s nothing selfless about his lifelong behavior, he’s been notoriously selfish from early on.

 

[JJpop]

Tiger the unknown

The thing that bothers me about Tiger that mostly goes unsaid is steroids.I am willing to bet a large sum of cash that he used them when he was in his prime.He was a client of one of the major steroid docs which I do not blow off as a coincidence.Oh yea,he was just examing his knee....really?You look at his physique,his power and add in his seedy life in other areas and it is hard to believe he was not the Barry Bonds of golf.....a great golfer on his own who became otherworldly,like Bonds,with some extra juice.Just my opinion.

 

[lucky penny]

My Tiger Woods story

I'e been a Tiger Woods fan almost since he was one of the early "Faces in the Crowd" in Sports Illustrated. That first year when he was just becoming a huge celebrity I wrote him a nice fan letter and asked for his autograph on the cover of Sports Illustrated (which I sent), and weeks later I got it back, signed!!! The next time he was on the cover (which happened a lot back then), I did it again, and same result!!! I may have tried a third time & was unsuccessful, so I stopped.

It's hard to imagine that happening these days. Are the autographs genuine? Who knows, but they look pretty good to me. I treasure those magazines.

 

[Music Lover]

The thing that bothers me about Tiger that mostly goes unsaid is steroids.I am willing to bet a large sum of cash that he used them when he was in his prime.He was a client of one of the major steroid docs which I do not blow off as a coincidence.Oh yea,he was just examing his knee....really?You look at his physique,his power and add in his seedy life in other areas and it is hard to believe he was not the Barry Bonds of golf.....a great golfer on his own who became otherworldly,like Bonds,with some extra juice.Just my opinion.

At his biggest and strongest he was about the same size as the average non-steroid taking male who followed a decent workout routine. He's 5'11" and 185...that's hardly massive.

Tiger has had several knee surgeries (4??)

 

[easysurfer]

+1. I subscribe to the classic definition of “hero” too.

A hero is a person who, in the face of danger, combats adversity through feats of ingenuity, bravery or strength; who perform great deeds or selfless acts for the common good instead of the goal of wealth, pride and fame.

Sports hero is a non-starter to me too. An athlete can certainly be a hero for other actions, but not by virtue of playing their sport. Tiger is arguably the best golfer ever, but not a hero by any means, there’s nothing selfless about his lifelong behavior, he’s been notoriously selfish from early on.

Seems to me like there at least a couple of interpretations of hero. One is heroic acts and another is being looked up about in adulation, thus like a hero.

In the heroic acts, anyone can be a hero at any moment. In sports, a player that snatches victory from the jaws of defeat is considered the hero of the the game. In real life, as others mentioned, first responders. Also, often times, teachers are often considered heroes through selflessness and dedication.

I think of other heroes of the past and would I consider them a hero.

Neil Armstrong, astronaut. I would say yes.

Joe Louis, Jessie Owens, Jackie Robinson. I would say yes. Sports heroes, but more than just sports.

As for Tiger, I think of his career arch a bit similar to Micheal Phelps. Both at one point totally dominated the sport they are in. Both had their share of falling from grace but said "Time to grow up" and act more like a better role model.

 

[JJpop]

Tiger

At his biggest and strongest he was about the same size as the average non-steroid taking male who followed a decent workout routine. He's 5'11" and 185...that's hardly massive.

Tiger has had several knee surgeries (4??)

I never said he was massive but he was definitely ripped.You can use drugs that enhance your performance and not look like the hulk.I just find it rather curious that of all people he hires a doc linked to steroids when being Tiger,he can use any doc/surgeon in the world.
Playing psychologist here,but from the time he was 3 years old he was groomed to be the best in the world and he did not have a normal childhood.He probably had no girlfriends when he was young so he went wild when he was rich and famous.Not hard to imagine turning to some kind of drugs to enhance his quest to be the greatest ever.All the women did not bother me that much because I figured the guy was screwed up by his father’s quest.

 

[Music Lover]

I never said he was massive but he was definitely ripped.You can use drugs that enhance your performance and not look like the hulk.

Being ripped is nothing more than having low body fat. I've also been ripped at times in my life...but not so much these days

I bet if you go to the powerlifting thread, almost everyone there has either been or seen someone muscular and ripped who hasn't used drugs.

 

[JJpop]

Being ripped is nothing more than having low body fat. I've also been ripped at times in my life...but not so much these days

I bet if you go to the powerlifting thread, almost everyone there has either been or seen someone muscular and ripped who hasn't used drugs.

That is true as is the opposite.
I watched Barry Bonds change from being one of the top 5 guys in the game to the greatest hitter who has ever lived for a couple seasons.I think Tiger did the same thing but it is just my opinion.There were a lot of whispers about it back then but he blew up with the womanizing and it just went away.Who knows,if he starts winning majors again and passes Jack,maybe someone will come forward.Maybe he was just super human.

 

[Music Lover]

Tiger was great even when he was skinny so his build had little to do with it, although once he added some muscle he was able to get out of deep rough easier than other players. He added 5 or 6 pounds of muscle a year for a few years...nothing that the average person with a good diet and training couldn't do.

Tiger's muscular difference was noticeable because so many players didn't lift like he did...many of them thought that it would hurt their swing. Put Tiger next to an average non-steroid taking ball player and he would look ordinary. Put him next to Barry Bonds and he would look puny.

Maybe Tiger took steroids, but he didn't have to to get that build. Good training and diet go a very long way, especially if you have the right genetics. I'm just an average guy but was cut and ripped in my early 40's...5'7", 165 pounds, 15.5" arms, 44" chest, 31" waist. I was lifting less than 2 total hours a week on average and running a half hour 3 times a week.

 

[easysurfer]

There isn't a 1 to 1 correlation between muscle and taking something to get an advantage. True, in baseball during the steroid era, some players got a lot larger (Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Canseco to name a few). Yet at the same time a player like Palmeiro didn't look huge and without him flunking the test, probably many would not have suspected. In baseball, even some thin players were suddenly hitting 50 plus homers. So one really couldn't tell for sure who was or was not on the juice.

Of course, then there was Lance Armstrong who didn't look ripped at all but was juiced at all.

The eye test alone isn't good enough.

 

[JJpop]

Blind eye

Tiger was great even when he was skinny so his build had little to do with it, although once he added some muscle he was able to get out of deep rough easier than other players. He added 5 or 6 pounds of muscle a year for a few years...nothing that the average person with a good diet and training couldn't do.

Tiger's muscular difference was noticeable because so many players didn't lift like he did...many of them thought that it would hurt their swing. Put Tiger next to an average non-steroid taking ball player and he would look ordinary. Put him next to Barry Bonds and he would look puny.

Maybe Tiger took steroids, but he didn't have to to get that build. Good training and diet go a very long way, especially if you have the right genetics. I'm just an average guy but was cut and ripped in my early 40's...5'7", 165 pounds, 15.5" arms, 44" chest, 31" waist. I was lifting less than 2 total hours a week on average and running a half hour 3 times a week.

Everyone who uses stuff does not get muscle bound as noted by the previous poster.He laid out great examples for you.
The fact that he was soooo much better than everybody combined with his association with a known steroid giving doc combined with his screwed up sense of morality raises a huge red flag.
I loved watching Tiger win tournaments too.I loved watching Bonds hit the ball literally like someone with super powers.It was awesome to watch.The irony is you have to be great on your own to have the juice make you super great.I really doubt Tiger did not have a little help.The juice does not just make you stronger.It can help with the finer points of the game as well.

 

[lucky penny]

Everyone who uses stuff does not get muscle bound as noted by the previous poster.He laid out great examples for you.
The fact that he was soooo much better than everybody combined with his association with a known steroid giving doc combined with his screwed up sense of morality raises a huge red flag.

As some have noted, Woods was otherworldly and way better than everybody when he first turned pro and was young and spindly. The muscular upper body didn't appear for another decade. There's no doubt he became a fitness freak (which may be why his body started breaking down) but even then he was quite vocal in supporting testing for PEDs. I believe the brief treatment by a "dicey" doctor also came much later.

Rumor & speculation shouldn't diminish someone's reputation. Time will tell.

 

[Music Lover]

Tiger won so much because in addition to having one of the best short games on tour, he was also one of the best putters of all time. Golf channel on Tiger's putting:

"From 2002-05, Woods had 1,540 putts from 3 feet and in on the PGA Tour. He only missed three of them."

Sure, a lot of them were gimmes. But, Tiger made 1537 of 1540 putts in a 4 year stretch. He averaged less than 1 miss per YEAR on all putts 3 feet and under.

 

[kcowan]

To get an insight into the impact of parental dominance in early life, read Open by Andre Agassi.

 

[JJpop]

As some have noted, Woods was otherworldly and way better than everybody when he first turned pro and was young and spindly. The muscular upper body didn't appear for another decade. There's no doubt he became a fitness freak (which may be why his body started breaking down) but even then he was quite vocal in supporting testing for PEDs. I believe the brief treatment by a "dicey" doctor also came much later.

Rumor & speculation shouldn't diminish someone's reputation. Time will tell.

As I said it is just my opinion and in terms of reputation,he ruined his own.
As I said the juice helps in other areas besides strength.It can improve focus and vision.I have no doubt it can improve putting.
Because so many athletes have been cheaters,suspicion is now cast on anyone who seems better than all of his peers in such a dominant fashion.I hope Tiger is clean and never took a thing.I coached for 25 years and I hate it when anybody cheats in any way.
Tiger already proved he is ok with cheating in another area of his life that is more important than sports.He opened the door for people like me to have legitimate concerns about him juicing by his own lack of self control.As I said it is easy to see him being screwed up about his relationships with women and hopefully it didn’t carry over to his golf and the pressure to be super human that was put on him.

 

[pb4uski]

I like TW and think it likely that he may become the GOAT, surpassing Nicklaus and Palmer. I judge him mostly on what he does inside the ropes and for the sport knowing full well that outside the ropes he has significant flaws as a human being that he struggles with like many professional athletes do.

All of that said, when I first heard that TW will be awarded the Medal of Freedom I thought it was a joke... I guess it isn't a joke but it is a joke.

 

[robnplunder]

All of that said, when I first heard that TW will be awarded the Medal of Freedom I thought it was a joke... I guess it isn't a joke but it is a joke.

Really? What are they thinking?


Anyway, this thread is all about whether we believed TW could ever come back to win another major or not. TW proved most of us wrong.

 

[HFWR]

Anyway, this thread is all about whether we believed TW could ever come back to win another major or not. TW proved most of us wrong.

Never gave it much though, since I’m not an avid sports fan/follower, but there is enough of a cerebral component to golf that older players can compensate, to a point, for some loss of athletic ability by playing smarter.

 

[bclover]

I liked what Tiger said after in Butler's cabin even more. 'In 1997 my Dad was there to give me a hug when I won my first Masters. This time 22 years later, I'm the Dad, sharing the win with my kids.'

I thought that was the classiest thing I've heard from an athlete in a long time.

 

[bclover]

This is the kind of stuff that drives me nuts when it comes to Tiger...and the way the commentators and most people view him. Tiger is a terrible person. I wonder if Tiger will ever share the infidelity stories and what he put his kids mother through? What kind of father would do that to his children? But, people will say everyone makes mistakes. Well, Tiger made the mistake with a dozen chicks...that we know of.

For the first 2 decades of his career...he never gave a crap about the fans. He never acknowledged them, rarely signed autographs, rarely gave fist bumps or high fives. Yet people adored him.

Tigers a billionaire yet he stiffs waiters/waitresses all the time on tips. This isnt a rare occurrence either.

But, I cant put all the blame on tiger. His dad was also a womanizer. Heck, Tigers old man didnt even live with his mom. So its no surprise Tiger did what he did...doesnt make it right.

The moral of the story is, people love a winner. Doesnt matter how they are in life, how they treat people, if the person wins all is forgiven. I just dont understand this mentality.

The only saving grace is his legacy will forever be tarnished with things he did in the past. Is he good for golf, of course. He brings in a ton of $$ for other golfers. Is he talented...uhh, yeah, to say the least. Other than that...hes a scumbag.

Oh big woo. seriously. Tiger cheated on his wife, since I don't sleep with him, that's his/her problem not mine. If I had a dollar for every dude famous or not that cheated on his gal, I'd have retired at 20. lol, I got my current house below cost because the gay couple who owned it where in the middle of a big break up. Same sex, same story, guy left his boyfriend of 30 years for his young salesmen at the office.

Anyhoo highly doubt that this will be a blip on his legacy, lol just got to see Hamilton on Broadway, not only did he have an affair, dude wrote a newspaper article about it, his son got killed over it and his wife still made sure his legacy continued on.

won't get into the tipping argument because I hate the entire American tipping set up.

When I want perfection I talk to Jesus, lol everyone else is suspect.