Solar Electric Assist--- NOT working

[ls99]

Out of curiosity, I looked on Google Earth trying to find this neighborhood. Gave up, and went to Zillow and could not find it either. Boy, looks like Johnstown has some really depressed areas.

Ayep. After the steel/coke mills closed down poverty really kicked in. Altough during the steel heydeys the air pollution was horrendous. Many of the old buildings still have the old grime. Grunge is prevalent in many areas.

 

[ls99]

Really? Have any evidence of that?

I tend to use a minimal amount of pesticides and fertilizer on my lawn (part cheapskate, part environmentalist), but most of the neighbors go full tilt with a lawn service. We all have lots of wildlife.

-ERD50

I'll see if I can get some grass samples for you in May/June. Around here it is either wild or farm or some idea of anything but weeds and pests in the finely manicured lawn. Not unusual to read in the summer about kids hauled to hospitals after playing in the "freshly or recently treated" manicured lawns.

 

[SteveNU]

My guess is that the houses are [-]crappily[/-] ]poorly insulated, have lots of air leaks, cheaply built, residents trying to keep warm run electric backup heating (as previously mentioned) without understanding how heat pump and their backup systems work...

BTW, by the lamp post shadow, hope the photo was not taken at noon time

And I don't feel like taking a 60 mile round trip to have a closer look. Agree with the dreary look comments, I would never live there. Rather live in a tepee.

The article says these are brand new low income housing units. I would guess that some of the tenants have no understanding of how the thermostat works and they probably keep the windows open because it's so hot inside.....

 

[NW-Bound]

The article says these are brand new low income housing units. I would guess that some of the tenants have no understanding of how the thermostat works and they probably keep the windows open because it's so hot inside.....

You made me read the article. Yes, the poor homeowners did not know.

Kari Imhoff, who moved with her two children into Highland Hills in November, was billed $396.58 for 2,843 kilowatt-hours in December, $449.51 for 3,380 kilowatt-hours in January and $574.77 for 4,040 kilowatt-hours in February, copies of her bills indicate.

Imhoff said she inadvertently left her thermostat set to EM HEAT – that is, “emergency heat” – rather than simply HEAT, not knowing that would cause her energy use to spike.​

It made me look at my electric bills. No problem with heating here, but in the hottest month of August last year, I used 2,565 kWhrs, at a cost of $320 for a home twice the size.

 

[Out of Steam]

Somerset, PA is a very severe climate to have a air-source heat pump without a fuel backup, whether gas, oil, or pellet stove. Climate is also fairly gray and cloudy, so the solar panels are kind of marginal.

The area also has significant elevation and lake-effect snow. Think northern Ohio or Michigan, rather than Philadelphia. Lack of backup heat other than resistance is the mistake.

 

[Amethyst]

Obviously the people who live there like it (or can tolerate it) or they wouldn't live there. As my Mother would have said, "Oh, they're probably lovely inside."

Do kids still play outdoors somewhere?

The subdivision in the photo will look OK with real grass, kids playing on it, or riding their bikes on the sidewalk, adults with adult beverages tending their BBQ. I would not be so harsh.

 

[Amethyst]

If we did that our bills would be in the thousands (they are already in the hundreds).

I can see where somebody with their first house might not know, especially if they were used to gas heat previously.

Imhoff said she inadvertently left her thermostat set to EM HEAT – that is, “emergency heat” – rather than simply HEAT, not knowing that would cause her energy use to spike.[/INDENT][/I]
.

 

[HFWR]

If we did that our bills would be in the thousands (they are already in the hundreds).



I can see where somebody with their first house might not know, especially if they were used to gas heat previously.

There are lots of folks who don't know (how) to change the a/c filter, clean the dryer lint screen, check motor oil, program a thermostat...

 

[NW-Bound]

I wonder why the thermostat has an Emergency Heat setting. In my high-country boondocks home, the heat pump has dual two-stage resistance heaters. These are kicked in sequentially as needed by the thermostat. I do not need to do anything to select them.

 

[samclem]

Somerset, PA is a very severe climate to have a air-source heat pump without a fuel backup, whether gas, oil, or pellet stove. Climate is also fairly gray and cloudy, so the solar panels are kind of marginal.

The area also has significant elevation and lake-effect snow. Think northern Ohio or Michigan, rather than Philadelphia. Lack of backup heat other than resistance is the mistake.

Agreed. A ground-source heat pump (GSHP) (aka "geothermal") would probably work well, but the installation costs generally make them impractical for low-cost housing. I've heard of some interesting GSHP installations in the northeast that had very low costs for the "ground loop," but it was a special case. The homes were on well water and the well was about 2K' deep (to get to a reliable water source). Just the regular well casing provided enough area for heat exchange with the soil/rock. In the winter they'd pump the water up, run it through the heat exchanger with the working fluid, then dump the cold water back into the well at the top and let it run down the walls to the bottom. By the time it got there it was almost at the normal ambient water temp for that depth. Seemed to work fine and no need for a new, expensive "dump" well. I wonder if authorities in all areas would be okay with using a potable water well in this way.

 

[travelover]

Somerset, PA is a very severe climate to have a air-source heat pump without a fuel backup, whether gas, oil, or pellet stove. Climate is also fairly gray and cloudy, so the solar panels are kind of marginal.............

Exactly. Wrong heating system for this location and marginal solar application, as well.

 

[samclem]

I wonder why the thermostat has an Emergency Heat setting. In my high-country boondocks home, the heat pump has dual two-stage resistance heaters. These are kicked in sequentially as needed by the thermostat. I do not need to do anything to select them.

I think the "Emergency" setting is fairly common, our home in NC had that setup. Maybe so you know you've consciously selected it and can know to apply for a third mortgage to pay that month's electric bill? It's not great--you can go on vacation in the winter and have a lot of damage from frozen pipes/etc if you left the thermostat on "normal."

 

[mpeirce]

I wonder why the thermostat has an Emergency Heat setting. In my high-country boondocks home, the heat pump has dual two-stage resistance heaters. These are kicked in sequentially as needed by the thermostat. I do not need to do anything to select them.

Our thermostat has an E Heat setting. It simply overrides the use of the heat pump for heating and forces the use of the gas furnace. It seems to switch over when the outside temperature is lower than around maybe 45°F.

When it was installed (17+ years ago) it was supposedly calibrated to use the heat pump (all electric based) for heat in warmer weather, then switch to gas when the heat pump has less efficient, saving us money.

Since both electricity and natural gas have changed price over the years I doubt it's optimizing things these days.

 

[jazz4cash]

I always thought panels should have heaters to melt the snow. My neighbors system stays clear up to about 2 inches once the sun comes out.

 

[meierlde]

I think the "Emergency" setting is fairly common, our home in NC had that setup. Maybe so you know you've consciously selected it and can know to apply for a third mortgage to pay that month's electric bill? It's not great--you can go on vacation in the winter and have a lot of damage from frozen pipes/etc if you left the thermostat on "normal."

The setting is for when your external unit is not working either because of a mechanical failure, or because it froze up (perhaps due to defrost board failure). One example I had a unit blow the low voltage fuse every time the outdoor unit cycled on due to a short on a wire inside it. During the week it took for the repair guys to find the problem kept the unit on emergency heat. (Note that if the temp falls into the teens then you are effectively on resistance heat also (It is called auxiliary heat and is used because a heat pump becomes less efficient the colder it is outside.)

 

[NW-Bound]

As I do not have the "Emergency" setting, I think that the thermostat will kick in the 1st electric heater when the actual temperature gets below the setting by, say 1F, for so long. This means the heat pump cannot keep up. Then, when the actual temperature drops further, say by 2F, then the 2nd heater is kicked on.

I set the temperature for 45F, whether I am there or not. And I am not there most of the time in winter, although one time I was there the temperature was in the negative, and I saw that the system ran non-stop. The record low is -10F there, but it is usually only in the single-digit range at night.

I do not know if when it kicks on the resistance heater that it will shut down the compressor or not. It seems pointless to keep the compressor on at that point, but I don't know.

In the low desert which goes below freezing very rarely, heat pumps are the sole means of heating/cooling, and people never have a problem. No auxiliary heater is necessary.

 

[meierlde]

BTW you can put a gas furnace behind a heat pump in colder climates. What that does is have the heat pump handle the days in the 30s and the furnace handle temps in the 20s and lower. For southwestern PA that would be the sensible config, then emergency heat would just use the gas furnace.

 

[NW-Bound]

Last summer, I was up there, and set the system to cooling for checking (it is rarely needed up there). Found no cold air. Uh oh!

Went out to investigate, found that the outdoor condenser blower was not running. I was able to buy and replace the capacitor of the motor, so it was no big deal. But how long was it like this?

I checked back my record for the preceding winter, and found that it was not excessive. So, it was not known when the condenser fan quit.

Simple things like the above need to be looked at, and checked. My wife or my mother would not know to look at things like this. So, I would not be harsh on the homeowners in the paper article.

 

[samclem]

When it is too cold for a conventional air-to-air heat pump to work and they change over to resistance heating, a few portable 1500W heaters start to make a lot of sense (if there's a safe place to put them, etc). Well, as long as the pipes everywhere are kept above freezing.

 

[NW-Bound]

Yes. That's why I keep my thermostat at 45F, even when it's single-digit temperature at night. I have a small electric heater for the bedroom. During the day, due to the southern exposure and large panes of windows the interior gets up to 70F. The sunlight is really intense, almost year round.

Last time I was up, the coldest the house got was the high 40s in the morning. The outside was about freezing. The heat pump did not run at all.

 

[JoeWras]

She likely left it on "EM Heat" because it felt good.

The bill doesn't feel so good. Maybe a lesson learned.

 

[NW-Bound]

My wife or my mother may not know the implication of that "EM Heat" mode, but they would quickly discover that something was wrong when they received the monthly bill. With the Johnstown houses being all electric, a thermostat with an automatic kick-over like mine is something the builder should put in.

I wonder if the builder has some info for the home owner, or the thermostat has anything in its manual. Oh well, it is only money and not bodily damage. Else, there would be caveat warning pasted by the thermostat to warn the home owner, like all the yellow tags we now see on ladders, stools, etc..., to warn people that they can hurt themselves.

 

[skipro33]

From the OP, it would seem that three critical things to make owning solar are missing;
1. Banking solar generation back to the utility during high solar periods.
2. Billing where a single, annual 'true-up' is paid
3. Time of use billing.

For me and my solar, yea, I'd have to pay like that for winter months, but my energy company only bills me once a year and they bank back the electric I generate that is over what I use. Add to that, they bank it at the prevailing rate, so if I'm over generating on a peak rate time of day and time of year, I bank more money. Then in winter when I use the electricity off-peak, at night mostly, I draw it at the lower peak rate. By the time a full year rolls around, I'm zero'd out on my bill. Last year I paid around $16 and that was for a tax that wasn't able to be offset by my generation.
While my solar is more than I currently use, it won't be as I start converting some appliances from propane over to electric, such as hot water and cooking.

 

[jazz4cash]

Seems like someone should offer a Tstat with running cost of usage. We got smart meters from our dumb utility but the data lags too much. I can get hour by hour for the previous billing cycle.

 

[skipro33]

Seems like someone should offer a Tstat with running cost of usage. We got smart meters from our dumb utility but the data lags too much. I can get hour by hour for the previous billing cycle.

If you have a smart meter, then you can get near-realtime energy usage with a Rainforest Energy Monitor;

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AII248U/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Smart meters telemetry their information via a radio link using a protocol called Zigbee. Every smart meter has a second Zigbee radio channel. You can activate the channel from your utility logon page on their website. Once you activate this second radio channel, you are pair it up with the Rainforest device. It is a gateway that uses ethernet though your router to the Rainforest cloud where you can log on and view your energy use with a slight lag of maybe 15 seconds or so.
The first step is to be sure your utility company gives you the ability to activate the 2nd RF channel on your meter. Then buy the Rainforest. Then create an account with Rainforest. (It's free with the purchase). Then power on and set up the Rainforest. Then activate the 2nd RF channel on the meter. Then pair it up.

If you want to archive your data, there are other sites, also free, but you get more info if you pay them $10 a year, such as pvoutput.org