Son will be going to Law School-Help!

[Contrarian]

Am taking note of the enormous tuitions. Obviously whatever saved for such insufficient. His granddad is retired policeman and mentioned may be some scholarships. Most of schools he has applied to are in Northeast. Anyhow, any ideas on possible grants or scholarships would be appreciative. (Already have Stafford loan from his college for loan-unsubsidized). Again any thoughts or leads so to speak to explore would be helpful.

Bob

[haha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Contrarian Am taking note of the enormous tuitions. Obviously whatever saved for such insufficient. His granddad is retired policeman and mentioned may be some scholarships. Most of schools he has applied to are in Northeast. Anyhow, any ideas on possible grants or scholarships would be appreciative. (Already have Stafford loan from his college for loan-unsubsidized). Again any thoughts or leads so to speak to explore would be helpful. Bob

My idea is that if he is old enough to study law, he is old enough to get his own loans.

Ha

[Meadbh]

I recently had some legal work done @ $375 per hour. Consider it an investment....by DS.

[Nords]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Contrarian Am taking note of the enormous tuitions. Obviously whatever saved for such insufficient.

From the extensive debates we've had on this sort of subject over the years, I think the board's consensus is that parental college funding obligations end at the bachelor's degree. Some of the members feel that the obligation ends at an in-state tuition rate, and many feel that students do better when they have their own skin in the game.

The "Millionaire Next Door" authors also feel that subsidizing adult children (no matter what the potential payoff) is a surefire ambition-sapping affluenza virus.

In other words you're free to wish him well and put your ER priorities ahead of his law school tuition.

[REWahoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nords From the extensive debates we've had on this sort of subject over the years, I think the board's consensus is that parental college funding obligations end at the bachelor's degree. Some of the members feel that the obligation ends at an in-state tuition rate, and many feel that students do better when they have their own skin in the game.

+1

Offer him unlimited moral support and encouragement. Maybe throw in a few 'comfort food' dinners during the holidays, too.

[Moemg]

I paid for their Bachelor's degrees but told them they were on their own after that . It is amazing how they can figure out creative ways to make it happen and take it more seriously than when I was footing the bill . I did give them a large check at graduation but it was a surprise .

[clifp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nords From the extensive debates we've had on this sort of subject over the years, I think the board's consensus is that parental college funding obligations end at the bachelor's degree. Some of the members feel that the obligation ends at an in-state tuition rate, and many feel that students do better when they have their own skin in the game. The "Millionaire Next Door" authors also feel that subsidizing adult children (no matter what the potential payoff) is a surefire ambition-sapping affluenza virus. In other words you're free to wish him well and put your ER priorities ahead of his law school tuition.

My parents didn't even wait to pay for my bachelors, in my junior year, mom told me dad is retiring (at 55), sorry we can't help with college any more.

I suspect that especially in this economy that young adults find the path of least resistance to continue to go to school rather and try and find a job.

Not having kids I won't offer advice. However, I am curious if any members have considered giving their adult children a financial launching pad, here is $20-30,000 you can use it for grad school, a car, or a down payment on a house. I would think that those who are really committed to being a doctor, lawyer, professor of art history etc. would use it for tuition while the those merely dabbling would go for the more immediate gratification.

[Gumby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Contrarian Am taking note of the enormous tuitions. Obviously whatever saved for such insufficient. His granddad is retired policeman and mentioned may be some scholarships. Most of schools he has applied to are in Northeast. Anyhow, any ideas on possible grants or scholarships would be appreciative. (Already have Stafford loan from his college for loan-unsubsidized). Again any thoughts or leads so to speak to explore would be helpful. Bob

The school itself will likely be the best source of information regarding scholarships, grants , loans and the like.

[Katsmeow]

The enormity of tuition can depend a great deal on the school attended. I went to a very fine law school but it was a state school. Law school isn't cheap, for sure, but there is a variation in cost between schools. I would hope that your son is taking cost into consideration in picking a school.

I must also say that many, many students have an incorrect notion of the marketability of a law degree. A very few students end up with a high salary immediately out of law school. Everyone thinks he or she will be in that small percentage. But, most will not. Remember that virtually everyone in law school is someone who is smart and used to doing well in school. Well, they can't all be at the top in law school.

A goodly number will make a good, but not amazing, salary. For this they will trade a huge amount of their time for a career that is not very family or life friendly. After 30 years in the profession, I can say without a doubt that many, many people can make the same or more money in professions that are not nearly as punishing to those to partake in them.

Many will make far less than they expect and may have trouble even finding a job. No one thinks that he or she will be in the group but many, many more are in this group than the top group.

Here is an article about law school supply and demand that may be eye opening:

Law schools are manufacturing more lawyers than America needs, and law students aren't happy about it. - By Annie Lowrey - Slate Magazine

If your son has a genuine passion for and love of the law, then that it fine. But, as a parent, I would see a degree beyond a bachelor's degree as one that my child needs to fund.

[clifp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katsmeow Law schools are manufacturing more lawyers than America needs, and law students aren't happy about it. - By Annie Lowrey - Slate Magazine If your son has a genuine passion for and love of the law, then that it fine. But, as a parent, I would see a degree beyond a bachelor's degree as one that my child needs to fund.

Wow I knew many lawyers were burdened with huge law school debt, and modest salaries but I had no idea that the overall employment picture was so bad.

Quote:

The job market for lawyers is terrible, full stop—and that hits young lawyers, without professional track records and in need of training, worst. Though the National Association for Law Placement, an industry nonprofit group, reports that employment for the class of 2009 was 88.3 percent, about a quarter of those jobs were temporary gigs, without the salaries needed by most new lawyers to pay off crushing debts. Another 10 percent were part-time. And thousands of jobs were actually fellowships or grants provided by the new lawyers' law schools.

I'd also point out that politician, pundits, and educators often talk about how this country needs more engineers, doctors, nurses, and sometimes skilled craftsman or teachers, but I have never heard anybody say we need more lawyers in the country, so I'm hard pressed to see the demand for lawyer increasing in the next 5 to 10 years.

[plex]

(Rant start) From a monetary standpoint AND quality of life standpoint, going to law school purely on loans (in most cases), is a bad idea.

I certainly would not have gone to law school if I hadn't planned on going into a type of law that is very similar to engineering (pays better and has slightly less grueling hours as such). I would have stuck with engineering for sure.

There are very few legal scholarships (and those are mostly for minorities), 99% of law students get most of their aid from loans, work, and/or get a merit scholarship from their school (from most common to least).

Law schools on average cost $35K/year, and with living expenses+books, add up to about $50k/year. Sure, there are a FEW states with reasonably priced state schools in the $10-20K/year range, but they are a tiny handful which require state residency and are in small markets mostly. This is not the case in most states. On average law students come out grossing on average $50k a year. There IS greater income potential later than most jobs with similar pay, but it is a lot later, 8-15 years later. There are caveats, those who go into corporate law (the top 10% only may choose this), or patent law (engineers/PhDs only) can they have a 6 figure salary soon after law school. Hiring rates are a roller coster, some years 90% of firms are hiring, others (like 2008), literally only 10% of firms were hiring.

Quality of life wise, law sucks, it is one of the worst quality of life fields, nearly on par with doctors in some cases. The work required is 50-100 hours/week (my uncle works 90/hours a week and hes 50), depending on the type of job. Having a family is brutal.

That all said (rant over), if his LSATS are in the mid 150s or higher, he probably can get a decent merit scholarship somewhere, so the cost isn't so brutal. Otherwise, the only choice is to max out subsidized loans, max out unsubsidized loans, max out grad plus loans the first year, and try and get a job (based on, bare minimum, top 25% grades), the second and third year. I did that and reduced the cost from $130k to $55k (because I had good grades my first year). I worked all through my engineering undergrad and had no debt from that, but many law students (like my former law school roommate), have substantial debt even from undergrad (he's sitting on $170k of debt and is VERY nervous about it).

[Gumby]

Katsmeow and plex have said it all. Although I have generally enjoyed my legal career, if I had children I would not encourage them to follow in my footsteps.

[Orchidflower]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nords From the extensive debates we've had on this sort of subject over the years, I think the board's consensus is that parental college funding obligations end at the bachelor's degree. Some of the members feel that the obligation ends at an in-state tuition rate, and many feel that students do better when they have their own skin in the game. The "Millionaire Next Door" authors also feel that subsidizing adult children (no matter what the potential payoff) is a surefire ambition-sapping affluenza virus. In other words you're free to wish him well and put your ER priorities ahead of his law school tuition.

If I might expound on this with an empirical example: My son totally skipped high school cause I got him a wonderful program for home school during that period (accredited in every State in the Union, 100+++ year old program), he had access to tutors which helped with the hard stuff like chemistry...and I found out he only finished half the courses he needed at the graduation deadline. Happy with him...uh, no. (Frankly, I wanted to kill him, and the laws in the State of Texas on murdering your child is all that kept me from it I swear.)
Anyway, I refused to then pay a penny towards his education anymore.
So, he rebelled totally then: He put himself thru a Cordon Bleu Culinary School in Chicago (with straight A's in the academics) and then whipped thru University of Illinois in 3 years with honors in 2 subjects and excellent grades. I guess he showed me.
He went thru on loans for the Culinary School and somehow got scholarships and grants for the University of Illinois--and just killed any chance of me being able to belittle him for not finishing school now.

Moral of this story: I don't know about your kid, but mine did SOOOOO much better when he had skin in the game. I have to ditto Nords comments.

[Nords]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gumby Katsmeow and plex have said it all. Although I have generally enjoyed my legal career, if I had children I would not encourage them to follow in my footsteps.

Thanks, I can't wait to hear Fuego tee this one up, too...

Quote:

Originally Posted by clifp Not having kids I won't offer advice. However, I am curious if any members have considered giving their adult children a financial launching pad, here is $20-30,000 you can use it for grad school, a car, or a down payment on a house. I would think that those who are really committed to being a doctor, lawyer, professor of art history etc. would use it for tuition while the those merely dabbling would go for the more immediate gratification.

One way is to gift the max amount that they could deposit into their 401(k) and IRA(s), or perhaps a 529. But I worry a lot about affluenza.

[Emeritus]

DD #2 just passed the Bar exam. Job hunting is a real nightmare in this economy. I graduated from law school 35 years ago and managed a wonderful , if by law standards lower paid career.
Anyone wanting to study law has to be terribly realistic, but we have a social need for lawyers to come from all strata of society, not merely the group for whom the tuition is chump change.

[bizlady]

My dad was a lawyer and worked until he bacame ill. He worked a day job, went to law school in the evening, and somehow supported mom and 3 of us kids at that time. Times have changed, but unless you have more than you need and/or are willing to do more for any other children you may have, this one should be on him....