South Dakota, what aren't you thinking.??

[Maximillion]

Illegal to perform an Abortion unless the Mother's Life is in Danger?

What Century is that State living in?

What's next, Electricity and Automobiles and the reinstatement of a man with a lamp to warn people a train is coming??

I cannot believe in America that such a Taliban Act is possible

[AltaRed]

It's such a shame America is reverting back to the intolerant first 50 years of the last century. One can only hope that this is a fad that will pass eventually. Oppression of women is counter to democracy and freedom.

[Maximillion]

I am in awe of the total stupidity of it, why would you make such an inane decision ,a nd why would you risk piz^^n off America's Women, they can be tough.

[obryanjf]

More power to the state of SD. If their constituents don’t like it, then they can vote somebody else in or move to some other enlightened place. This how it should be; each state deciding for itself.
Abortion is wrong no matter how it is dressed up.
Fire away.

[SamHouston]

I am in awe of the total stupidity of women who use abortion as a means of birth control.

[Maximillion]

SH, you make a valid observation,a nd this issue is fringed with emotion, but in this millenia, there is absolutly no way any thinking Politician who wants to keep HIS job, would vote on such an issue.

A Man wants to keep the baby, the Woman doesn't, the man doesn't want the baby, the woman does and also child Support, guess who wins.?

I am NOT a Pro Lifer, but I do have concerns that some women run to clinics routinly to" Fix It", but then again, I am a male.

A Woman has the right to control her own body.

[AltaRed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamHouston I am in awe of the total stupidity of women who use abortion as a means of birth control.

There you go stereotyping. Of course that happens and that is a disappointment. The vast majority are terminations for a whole lot of legitimate reasons. What matters is choice and women's rights.

Quote:

Originally Posted by obryanjf More power to the state of SD. If their constituents don’t like it, then they can vote somebody else in or move to some other enlightened place. This how it should be; each state deciding for itself. Abortion is wrong no matter how it is dressed up. Fire away.

I guess if you are in favor of the government controlling your life, you are all for these laws and other big government regulations.


But, just because the citizens of a state decide that something is legal or illegal does not make it constitutional. For example South Carolina could decide that Slavery was legal, but the Supreme Court would rule against them.

It will be interesting to see what the Supreme Court thinks about South Dakota. The Right wing may be a bit surprised at the ruling.

[SamHouston]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AltaRed There you go stereotyping. Of course that happens and that is a disappointment. The vast majority are terminations for a whole lot of legitimate reasons. What matters is choice and women's rights.

I only mentioned those who use abortion as a form of birth control...no stereotyping involved. They are lazy and heartless. Period.

Choice and women's rights are one thing. However, killing unborn human beings is another thing, and is not a choice that, IMO, should be allowed for less than medical concerns involving either the mother or the child. Killing the unborn for other reasons, such as avoiding future responsibility or having one's future "disrupted" are just wrong to me personally.

That's MY choice when it comes to looking at the issue. And, BTW, we're not just talking "women's rights." Fathers have rights also, despite the fact that feminists jeer at those rights as if it's ludicrous to suggest their existence.

[SamHouston]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximillion SH, you make a valid observation,a nd this issue is fringed with emotion, but in this millenia, there is absolutly no way any thinking Politician who wants to keep HIS job, would vote on such an issue. A Man wants to keep the baby, the Woman doesn't, the man doesn't want the baby, the woman does and also child Support, guess who wins.? I am NOT a Pro Lifer, but I do have concerns that some women run to clinics routinly to" Fix It", but then again, I am a male. A Woman has the right to control her own body.

I hear what you're saying, Max, but when a woman has another body inside her own body, she's got to consider the rights of that person also. It's a fine line to walk and I firmly believe that most women of child-bearing age today have been wrongly convinced that its ALL about them instead of considering that an abortion directly affects TWO lives, not one.

[laurence]

Americans have been given poor choices on this issue. Most Americans are not pro-"abortion on demand" nor "pro-life at any cost". Polls show the greatest level of consensus around abortions during the first trimester. Yet we keep getting all or nothing stances on this. Even the Bible (Leviticus?) states life begins when the blood flows, which I believe isn't for ~20 after fertilization.

I'm not for making abortions a crime, this 5 year sentence is out of control. I would like to see a reduction of abortions through funding for alternatives, contraception education (taboo among many pro-lifers, I know) etc. etc.

[SamHouston]

I agree with you for the most part, Laurence. The penalty is so high that it becomes almost meaningless, and I'd much rather see money be spent on providing proper contraceptive education and methods than on government sponsored abortion clinics for the poor. My particular problem is with the later abortions and especially with those labeled as "partial birth abortions." All involved in that type of killing should see some very hard and long jail time, IMO.

[laurence]

Well, I have to say after having my daughter I have swung to the right a bit on this issue. I can't imagine asking my wife to have a late term abortion (actually, we would never have one at any term as we are personally pro-life, but you get what I mean).

[retire@40]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cut-Throat I guess if you are in favor of the government controlling your life, you are all for these laws and other big government regulations. But, just because the citizens of a state decide that something is legal or illegal does not make it constitutional. For example South Carolina could decide that Slavery was legal, but the Supreme Court would rule against them. It will be interesting to see what the Supreme Court thinks about South Dakota. The Right wing may be a bit surprised at the ruling.*

I've always been amazed that we have this ongoing abortion fight since everyone knows there will always be people that are pro life and others that will always be pro choice.

This is a useless fight and too much hot air is wasted on this topic.* If the courts can either allow abortion or not allow abortion, then obviously there is no legal or constitutional correct answer.* The constitution gives all powers to the people that are not specifically given to the government.* Last I checked, abortion powers are not given to the government.

Therefore, one way to come to an agreement on this is to let people vote in each state on this topic every few years.* If the majority want abortion, they get it at least until the next vote.* If the majority don't, then it's not allowed in that state at least until the next vote.

If there is a better way to resolve this issue, I'd like to hear it.

Quote:

If the courts can either allow abortion or not allow abortion, then obviously there is no legal or constitutional correct answer.

That is for the Supreme Court to decide. They can overrule lower courts and have done so.

[Gpax7]

The single thing that bothers me the most is that men have no post conception rights whatsoever. They should be able to walk away anytime they wish. They didn't choose to have a baby, They chose to have sex and the two are very different decisions.
If the woman is to have absolute sway over the things that happen to her body then I say she should bear that responsibility alone, too. And not with government assistance. Family can help if they are willing but this crap of a 19 year old coming home with a baby for his or her parents to raise is wrong.
Parents who tell their children "sex is a sin and God won't like it" truly adbicate their responsibility. I think they should tell their children about birth control, the use of condoms, the threat of STDs and AIDS,
and the damage that having a family too young will do to your economics for the rest of your life.
And pound that message in. Don't just mention it in passing once. Drive it home.!!
I don't believe a short term affair should end with a pregnancy precipitated marriage.
Everybody wants to see fewer abortions. But I think most of the religious right would rather see babies raising babies than adopt any type of other option. And there are enough women who opt for adoption to make that a viable option. I just don't think anyone should be forced into an abortion they don't want as long as they and they alone face the known consequences.
A zygote is no more a person than an acorn is a finished piece of oak furniture.
There are morning after pills available but the responsibility to have a baby should be either a mutually acceptable decision by people qualified to do so (and that means college is completed) or no one should be forced into anything they don't want to do. Sex is great but it shouldn't wreck your life.

Quote:

Sex is great but it shouldn't wreck your life.

I agree! - And this is what the anti-abortion movement is all about. It is not about the sanctity of life, it's about Sex without penalty. If there truly was a concern of the lives of children, the anti-abortion movement would be up in arms about the 'collateral' damge of innocent children( fully developed) in Iraq.

It is also why the anti-abortion movement is against Sex education and many forms of birth control. They have a real hangup with someone getting illicit Sex!

[SamHouston]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cut-Throat I agree! - And this is what the anti-abortion movement is all about. It is not about the sanctity of life, it's about Sex without penalty. If there truly was a concern of the lives of children, the anti-abortion movement would be up in arms about the 'collateral' damge of innocent children( fully developed) in Iraq. It is also why the anti-abortion movement is against Sex education and many forms of birth control. They have a real hangup with someone getting illicit Sex!

I think you're painting with too broad a brush. While I consider myself to be on the anti-abortion side of this issue, I certainly couldn't care less about the sex lives of other people, and the vast majority of people I know who are anti-abortion feel the same way. The only illicit sex that I am concerned about is rape or where one party is under-age. Other than that...go for it...not my problem or concern.

However, take some responsibility for your actions while doing so and abortion will be less an issue than it is today.

Also, gotta say that war and abortion are two different things. The deaths of children in both cases are horrible, yes, but the circumstances are so different that the comparison is meaningless. It reminds me of the cliche that pro-lifer's use when they wonder why pro-choice folks are for killing the unborn but for sparing those on death row...two different things that can't really be compared.

[MJ]

I wonder how many of the so-called "pro life" people stand on line to adopt non-white or unhealthy baby/children either of not wanted or cannot be taken care of, by mothers.
It appeares that these groups are very pro-life before a baby is born and "you're on your own" after the baby is born.

MJ

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJ I wonder how many of the so-called "pro life" people stand on line to adopt non-white or unhealthy baby/children either of not wanted or cannot be taken care of, by mothers. It appeares that these groups are very pro-life before a baby is born and "you're on your own" after the baby is born.

What ticks me off about all these sorts of issues. Plenty of people to complain about the 'problem', but few left standing around to provide the 'solution'.

There is no 'solution' to this, nor compromise. It has nothing to do really with the law or when life starts or much of anything else. Its a moral issue. Some people want to tell others what they can and cant do with their bodies, using moral 'murder' arguments. Some people want to stop what may be a life presumably to improve their own, using the argument that its not much more than a tumor being removed.

Here's the compromise. Make the law. Live with it. If you dont like the law, change it. In the meanwhile, I havent seen any pro abortion weirdo's breaking the law, killing people or blowing up buildings. I think theres something to be said for that distinction.

I'd be very impressed if the pro-life crowd lined up to comfort and care for a pregnant woman, pay all her bills, and take the child off her hands with the assurance of a good life and care thereafter. There is after all reasonable data to show that unwanted children "enjoy" far higher rates of substance abuse, physical abuse and crime.