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Old 02-17-2019, 11:54 PM   #21
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But am I right that you would be opposed to this stipulation?:
" - I am the biological mother of this child, I am giving up all parental rights, and specifically request that this adoption remain "closed" and my identity not be made known to this child or anyone not identified below: "


There are many reasons a woman might want to do this, and I think it fair to respect her wishes. She can provide medical info if she wants, and we are nearly at the point when the offspring can get better info through genetic testing than would be available through the mom's medical history anyway.
Not the person you directed this to, but I would certainly object to that as an adoptee (I am also, btw, an adoptive parent). I never consented to never knowing who my original identity. I believe that basic identity information is something that I (and others) are entitled to know. That said, I do not have a right to continued contact with my biological parents. But, I believe that I am entitled to know my own identity. Medical information is, of course, helpful to have. But that doesn't exhaust the need that I had to find out where I came from and who were the ancestors who came before me. As a child I felt like I had simply been plopped down on earth like an alien. I didn't mind being adopted. I minded not knowing where I came from, including the basic information about my identity.

As an adult I searched and found my birthmother (using traditional means long before DNA testing was available -- I later used DNA testing to find my deceased birthfather). I was fully prepared to have one call with her, hoping she would answer a few questions. Had she chosen to have no contact with me, I would have honored that without question. (Interestingly, recently one of my half-brothers said that had she decided to do that that he would have wanted me to contact him and his siblings -- he feels that they had a right to know that they had me as a half-sibling). As it turned out, she elected to have contact.

As far as the donor sperm situation. Anyone who has donated sperm within the last several years should realize that they will be identified through DNA eventually.

The reality of it is that technology is such that people will not be able to hide who the biological parents of children are. Whether those are children who were adopted or conceived through donor sperm or just your garden variety NPE -- that secrecy and ability to hide the truth is gone.
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Old 02-18-2019, 06:51 AM   #22
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I'm surprised at the hostility to the mother in this case. There is nothing in the article that would indicate that she was intentionally trying to violate donor privacy or to seek child support (not going to bother researching, but I assume such a claim would be laughed out of any state in the land). The mother gave DNA tests to several relatives and was surprised and curious when relative info popped up on the test for her daughter. No big deal.

The main takeaway is that in the age of DNA tests information about your relatives is available if you or a close relative get in the public systems. Government data bases are available to law enforcement but not the general public. Other stories have told about serial killers busted in a similar manner and philanderers getting a surprise call from kids they never knew about. The primary risk to privacy is from your relatives participating since you can simply opt out yourself. I don't know that there is much that reasonably could be done to eliminate the close relative privacy issues of these public systems or whether anything should be done?
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:58 AM   #23
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Not the person you directed this to, but I would certainly object to that as an adoptee (I am also, btw, an adoptive parent). I never consented to never knowing who my original identity. I believe that basic identity information is something that I (and others) are entitled to know.
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After all the bio-child has rights to their full ancestral medical history, but are denied it, even though it will impact them as much as anyone else in the world.
Let's follow where this leads for a bit. If we say a child has a "right" to know the identity of his/her biological mother (for medical/health reasons), then surely the child's "right" to know the identity of his/her biological father is just as absolute. Why "discriminate" against the mother, giving her a burden that the biological father doesn't have? Can/should we also make disclosure of the father's identity by the mother mandatory? And what is the legal recourse if she demands to keep her own identity and that of the father from disclosure?

There are no absolute rights, every right is a tradeoff with respect to the rights of others. I can understand that some people may believe that the rights of a child to know their medical history are more important than the biological mother's (and father's) right to privacy--on the face of it, that makes sense. But, in this area, the courts have told us already that the mom has very strong privacy rights.

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But, I believe that I am entitled to know my own identity. Medical information is, of course, helpful to have. But that doesn't exhaust the need that I had to find out where I came from and who were the ancestors who came before me. As a child I felt like I had simply been plopped down on earth like an alien. I didn't mind being adopted. I minded not knowing where I came from, including the basic information about my identity.
This is a very personal issue, and I have no standing to dispute your feelings on this. But here are my personal feelings: Like you, I was also the adoptee in a closed adoption. I never had these feelings of lack of identity. It remains a mystery to me why people give a hoot about their biological ancestors as a means to establish who they are. Who I am today is >far< more the product of the love, care, and hard work of the couple who raised me than of the two folks who provided my genetic material. I know who I am, I am not dependent on knowing anything about my biological lineage to help me with that.

About 6 decades ago, a young lady was in a tough spot with an unwanted pregnancy and few options. She saw that through and made the decision to give her child up to another couple to raise. I know my parents, despite all the headaches I caused them, were grateful for their whole lives that she made that choice, and I was, too. She chose to keep her identity private and I respected that choice. Yes, I would have liked more medical history, but I don't think it is my right. That young lady already gave up quite a bit of her privacy and her life. She owes me, and society, nothing.

I would think most women today would agree to release their name to their biological child, open adoptions are the norm now. But if a woman doesn't want that, I hope we'll respect her wishes and provide no disincentives for what is already a tough and selfless choice.

Just another opinion . . .
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Old 02-18-2019, 11:08 AM   #24
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I

Lots of biological mothers and fathers are not the loving parent people imagine, so they don't won't even bother to give much medical information and certainly NEVER would followup a decade or two later when they develop a hereditary disease to say "oh you should inform my bio-child".
IMHO, adoptive parents are one of the most forgotten and take-for-granted groups in our society.

Like my old grand pappy used to say, "Any guy can be a father, but it takes someone special to be a daddy."
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Old 02-18-2019, 11:19 AM   #25
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IMHO, adoptive parents are one of the most forgotten and take-for-granted groups in our society.

Like my old grand pappy used to say, "Any guy can be a father, but it takes someone special to be a daddy."
I agree. I know someone who is adopted and she talks about her "father" and her "dad" -- and they are two different people.
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Old 02-18-2019, 12:32 PM   #26
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Let's follow where this leads for a bit. If we say a child has a "right" to know the identity of his/her biological mother (for medical/health reasons), then surely the child's "right" to know the identity of his/her biological father is just as absolute. Why "discriminate" against the mother, giving her a burden that the biological father doesn't have? Can/should we also make disclosure of the father's identity by the mother mandatory? And what is the legal recourse if she demands to keep her own identity and that of the father from disclosure?

There are no absolute rights, every right is a tradeoff with respect to the rights of others. I can understand that some people may believe that the rights of a child to know their medical history are more important than the biological mother's (and father's) right to privacy--on the face of it, that makes sense. But, in this area, the courts have told us already that the mom has very strong privacy rights.

...... .
I believe I said " full ancestral medical history" so that is both bio father and bio mother, no discrimination.
If that means rich men and rapists and pedophiles get revealed, too bad.
Closed adoptions provides a nice way to hide these ugly facts from society.

As to the legal recourse, I'll leave that up to others to decide, it simply should not be available.

The courts have been wrong many times in the past, examples are: women not allowed to vote. Slavery is legal, etc...

I too am an adoptee, which is why I care about this subject, and I'm not in perfect health. My adoptive parents never hid it, and I was super lucky to be picked by them, also glad I wasn't aborted, luck of the draw.

Every doctor appointment, the doctors ask, family medical history ? ? - N/A.
Maybe doctors should be banned from asking that question so everyone else knows what it's like and respect bio parents privacy in everyone's situation.

I got my adoption papers from the gov't , it's like a top secret document, with redacted lines and paragraphs all over it.
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Old 02-18-2019, 04:05 PM   #27
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...There are no absolute rights, every right is a tradeoff with respect to the rights of others...

...Like you, I was also the adoptee in a closed adoption. I never had these feelings of lack of identity. It remains a mystery to me why people give a hoot about their biological ancestors as a means to establish who they are. Who I am today is >far< more the product of the love, care, and hard work of the couple who raised me than of the two folks who provided my genetic material. I know who I am, I am not dependent on knowing anything about my biological lineage to help me with that.

About 6 decades ago, a young lady was in a tough spot with an unwanted pregnancy and few options. She saw that through and made the decision to give her child up to another couple to raise. I know my parents, despite all the headaches I caused them, were grateful for their whole lives that she made that choice, and I was, too. She chose to keep her identity private and I respected that choice. Yes, I would have liked more medical history, but I don't think it is my right. That young lady already gave up quite a bit of her privacy and her life. She owes me, and society, nothing...
Very powerful comments, thanks for sharing. I don't have a horse in this race, as I'm not an adopter or adoptee. I have done genealogy work, and it sure is nice to have everything neat and tidy, but I suspect it's never going to be that simple, and I feel some responsibility to respect the wishes of the people involved.

I know technology has changed things going forward, but I keep coming back to that young woman (or couple) with that difficult decision. Based on the promises made at that time, they put their trust in the adoption agency, and the law, to maintain their privacy. To renege now feels wrong.

Another side effect is that women facing the choice between adoption and abortion now have a stronger incentive to consider the latter.

I just think it's more complex than many realize.
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Old 02-18-2019, 05:51 PM   #28
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Old 02-18-2019, 06:51 PM   #29
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Giving up a baby is one of the most loving things a parent can do. It makes a dream come true for a couple unable to conceive. I used to work with abused children and many would have been better off if they had been adopted. I think it’s good for the parents to include a medical history even if they want their identity secret.
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Old 02-18-2019, 07:40 PM   #30
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With regard to the article, in my opinion the mother was a fault when she wrote to the grandmother. The agreement was that she was not to attempt to attempt to contact donor directly or indirectly. Part of the inducement to make the donation was that he was not to be contacted.

There were no extenuating medical circumstances here.

Obviously, the child would not be bound by the agreement when she reaches adulthood.

As far as the donor paying child support: absolutely not. That was another inducement to make the donation; which has been upheld by the judicial system.

Due to the changes in technology, the concept of perpetual anonymity of the donor, is a fading one.
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Old 02-18-2019, 08:04 PM   #31
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Thats the only motivation this women had. She thought she was going to cash in.

Lesson: Don't donate sperm because you may be paying child support eventually.
+1
Nearly all the common law expects biological fathers to take responsibility for their offspring, so Until there is a constitutional amendment specifically protecting sperm donors, one is at significant risk donating.
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Old 02-18-2019, 08:29 PM   #32
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Conversely, donor fathers can also use these DNA tests to locate their donee children. This goes both ways.
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Old 02-18-2019, 11:38 PM   #33
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Conversely, donor fathers can also use these DNA tests to locate their donee children. This goes both ways.
Using DNA testing for seeking out information on people goes both ways.

Gaining financially from using the information will not.

Several of us were discussing what financial risks the males were taking by donating.
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Old 02-19-2019, 04:20 AM   #34
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The linked article in the OP and the thread topic is about adapted children using DNA testing to identify and find their biological parents. There is no mention of lawsuits, that is little more than a red herring to this otherwise interesting discussion. Let’s just drop it and stick to the topic.
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Old 02-19-2019, 05:27 AM   #35
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Several of us were discussing what financial risks the males were taking by donating.
Yeah I got that. That I’d throw out the corresponding risk of potential related custody disputes. Sorry if it didn’t meet your approval for being on topic.
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Old 02-19-2019, 11:26 AM   #36
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Thanks for the interesting discussion.

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