If you revisit your alma mater I suspect you will find it with more creature comforts and tech. Places that were not air conditioned in your day now are. Computer labs and workstations will abound. The sports stadium will be new and improved. Buildings will have been renovated while entire new ones have sprung up. Security will be tighter. The grounds will be better maintained. The list can go on.
Student Loan Crisis
- Thread starter Hopeful
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If you revisit your alma mater I suspect you will find it with more creature comforts and tech. Places that were not air conditioned in your day now are. Computer labs and workstations will abound. The sports stadium will be new and improved. Buildings will have been renovated while entire new ones have sprung up. Security will be tighter. The grounds will be better maintained. The list can go on.
RAE
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Yep. Good luck trying to cover those costs by shoveling snow or working a few hours weekly in the dorm cafeteria. This issue has become a huge dilemma for a lot of kids and their parents - do you encourage a kid just out of high school, who really has no idea yet what career path they want to pursue, to take out huge loans to cover 4+ years of college? (assuming the parents can't cover most of the cost). And then be saddled with a huge amount of student loan debt when they graduate? I don't think I would encourage that anymore, if I had kids that age. Paying off student loans until you are 40, 45, 50 years old is insane. Makes more sense to me to have the kid attend a community college for the first couple of years first, to get the required courses out of the way and also maybe gain enough maturity to decide what path they want to pursue (and how much debt they want to incur to follow that path).
+1/ hit the nail right on the head
copyright1997reloaded
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Ding ding ding....we have a winner!
Also, tenured faculty at large universities aren't doing so bad. Adjuncts - well they get scraps, but those "in the club":
https://data.chronicle.com/category/sector/1/faculty-salaries/
ETA: I would love to see a "budget breakdown" of a typical large institution from 1975 and now to understand faculty to administrator ratios and various budget categories that are not directly related to student instruction. Even that would be suspect, because many costs can be hidden in the student instruction category that really aren't.
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ncbill
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Well, kids can't borrow that much...parents have to co-sign for big undergrad debt.
Most of the 6-figure debt stories you see are for graduate degrees, where the grad student is allowed to borrow ridiculous sums on their own.
My recently deceased relative borrowed heavily to go back to school after they were laid-off at age 60.
But all their federal student loan debt was discharged when they died.
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One factor for state schools is how much the state provides in higher education. In my state, the amount of money coming from the state has plummeted over the last decade. Thus, even higher tuition.
My last kid in college will graduate next year and I'll be done! Have no idea how my grandkids will attend college in 15 years.
Some colleges are trying to do something about the costs. The private college I went to just announced they were getting rid of 60+ majors and reducing admin and some professor jobs. Over the next 20-30 years quite a few colleges will cease to exist due to the number of students declining.
My last kid in college will graduate next year and I'll be done! Have no idea how my grandkids will attend college in 15 years.
Some colleges are trying to do something about the costs. The private college I went to just announced they were getting rid of 60+ majors and reducing admin and some professor jobs. Over the next 20-30 years quite a few colleges will cease to exist due to the number of students declining.
Sunset
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Time to reverse-offshore.
With the super high cost of University in the USA in many places, I would recommend to anyone not rich to consider foreign Universities. Even with the extra charge in some places of foreign student it can still be CHEAP. to go to a University that is ranked higher than most USA Universities.
I have a relative that did the cross-border education trick. Even close enough to go home on major holidays, all classes were in English.
With the super high cost of University in the USA in many places, I would recommend to anyone not rich to consider foreign Universities. Even with the extra charge in some places of foreign student it can still be CHEAP. to go to a University that is ranked higher than most USA Universities.
I have a relative that did the cross-border education trick. Even close enough to go home on major holidays, all classes were in English.
If student loans were made by colleges and had to stay on their books until being re-paid by the student (not sold to someone else, not discharged in bankruptcy), schools would be a lot more interested in the value of the degrees they offer to the particular students they accept, and maybe even in controlling non-instructional costs. As a condition of federal/state involvement in partially underwriting a portion of these loans, the respective governments could require that the schools keep the loans in-house.
When I was in college (midwest USA), practically the entire Civil Engineering and Mechanical Engineering professors were foreign back in 1980's...
I had an EE course where the instructor had to listen to my question in English, translate that to Arabic, translate the math to French because that is the language he learned math in, translate the results from French to Arabic to English. The phrase "lost in translation" rings true....
+1
And not just tout graduation rates but a score of something like average debt to starting wage ratio broken down by major.
Koolau
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
I could go off (or at least go on and on) about the way colleges have taken advantage of the easy loans students can get. I visited my alma mater and noticed the old quonset huts I took chemistry lab in are gone - replaced by a diamond plated edifice. Not a scientific or peer reviewed study, but it's clear what has happened in the past 50 years. Universities will adjust to the amount of money they can take in without necessarily providing anything "better" than I used to get. Okay, it's true, when I went to school, there were only air, earth, fire and water in the periodic table, but you know what I'm talking about if you've been "back" recently.
But seriously, I'll (almost) stop here to avoid becoming political. Let me just say one more thing. I saw a suggestion which would FIX the student loan problem. Every university which takes loan money from students must co-sign their student loan. YMMV
But seriously, I'll (almost) stop here to avoid becoming political. Let me just say one more thing. I saw a suggestion which would FIX the student loan problem. Every university which takes loan money from students must co-sign their student loan. YMMV
audreyh1
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Back in the 70s, it was quite easy to pay for a top 10 engineering school at a state university by working 1/4 time during the semester, taking advantage of the co-op program (which provided most of the funding) and a little bit of initial scholarship money.
Very different story now in terms of expense for tuition and books.
Very different story now in terms of expense for tuition and books.
Sunset
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Everyone seems to be in the free money business.
Here is a little excerpt from the Hair cutting school, amazingly it takes just over a year of study to cut hair, and nearly 90% don't graduate on time.
I'm guessing most of those 90% never graduate and only have a debt.
Unfortunately, the site uses various excuses to hide details (like loan debt of people who pass and people who drop out, and the cost of loan repayment) so I'm sure it tricks lots of people who are keen and excited to learn a skill and get a job.
Hair Professionals Career College
Undergraduate certificate in Cosmetology/Cosmetologist, General Program Length: 55 weeks
11% of Title IV students complete the program within 55 weeks
Program Costs*
$18,500 for tuition and fees
$2,500 for books and supplies
Here is a little excerpt from the Hair cutting school, amazingly it takes just over a year of study to cut hair, and nearly 90% don't graduate on time.
I'm guessing most of those 90% never graduate and only have a debt.
Unfortunately, the site uses various excuses to hide details (like loan debt of people who pass and people who drop out, and the cost of loan repayment) so I'm sure it tricks lots of people who are keen and excited to learn a skill and get a job.
Hair Professionals Career College
Undergraduate certificate in Cosmetology/Cosmetologist, General Program Length: 55 weeks
11% of Title IV students complete the program within 55 weeks
Program Costs*
$18,500 for tuition and fees
$2,500 for books and supplies
I find it very ironic that younger generation in my neighborhood that are saddled with student loan debt live by themselves in very nice apartments, lease new cars, do not take on a second job to supplement their income to pay down debt but have the time and effort to take several get away vacations a year.
How would you find that level of detail about the financial habits and behavior of others? Is there any data to support that or is it just a stereotype?
No stereotype. Living in my neighborhood for the last 20 plus years, families in our subdivision know each other throughout the years when we socialize with each other at the community tennis courts, golf course, pool and playground areas. Does this answer your questions?
aja8888
Moderator Emeritus
Just curious, but where are you?
ExFlyBoy5
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Not so much a sterotype nor statistical, but when I was in law school, there were quite a few students who couldn't spend their "refund" (the living stipend but they insisted on calling it a refund) fast enough. It was amazing to see these ADULTS (most who were at least 22 years old) not have ANY understanding (or ignored) how these loans would cost a LOT of money in just a few short years. I went to a study group a couple of times where a handful of students rented condos that were within walking distance of the school...they lived ALONE and the rents averaged about $1700 a month. And of course, a year out of school...I know a few that just have no idea how they are going to pay back the loans.
Bestwifeever
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Nobody complained about paying for their kids' college?
Chuckanut
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
If I was going to borrow a lot of money to get educated it would be become a doctor, electrician or plumber.
Just wondering, thanks for answering.
Yes, especially the families that had their kids enrolled in private colleges. The families that had their kids enrolled in state colege, not so much.
Independent
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GravitySucks
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Is it really a crisis, or are some outliers making things look worse? While it is much more expensive now the value is actually higher as lower educated workers make so much less on average. The spread between college grads and high school grads is greater than when I was starting out.
"Bachelor's degree holders owed a median of $25,000, while those with a postgraduate degree owed a median of $45,000. Relatively few with student loan debt have six-figure balances. Only 7% of current borrowers have at least $100,000 in outstanding debt, which corresponds to 1% of the adult population."
$25k median isn't chicken feed to a young person,but far from insurmountable. The $37k average would be a harder but to crack.
The new private student housing that recently opened at my alma mater would sell for more than my house is worth. If the worries are real I guess the resorts in Cancun were vacant this spring.
"Bachelor's degree holders owed a median of $25,000, while those with a postgraduate degree owed a median of $45,000. Relatively few with student loan debt have six-figure balances. Only 7% of current borrowers have at least $100,000 in outstanding debt, which corresponds to 1% of the adult population."
$25k median isn't chicken feed to a young person,but far from insurmountable. The $37k average would be a harder but to crack.
The new private student housing that recently opened at my alma mater would sell for more than my house is worth. If the worries are real I guess the resorts in Cancun were vacant this spring.
ncbill
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
They may well already be on an income-based repayment plan, which caps their own payment at a easier-to-service level, with forgiveness of the majority of the loan balance a couple of decades down the line.
