Tax prep sw selling personal data

[jollystomper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zinger1457 Not sure why one would think only the 'free' versions are involved, seems like there would be a lot more interest from these companies for the higher income folks that use the 'paid' version.

They tend to focus on "quantity", not "quality" .

[CaptTom]

Getting back to the technology, it appears from my reading that the "Meta Pixel" implementation is a block of Java code which the host (in this discussion, tax prep software companies) put on their web pages. This code is provided by Meta (Facebook) servers. A couple of explanations I read say that the code actually scans the page looking for tidbits it would like to scoop up. The tax software company may not even know what this code is passing back to Meta's servers.

Everyone's motivations are clear here. The tax software companies get tracking information about how their web sites are being used. Meta gets to harvest more personal data. Users are either oblivious or just don't care.

There's no magic here. The idea of a third-party tracking pixel is not new. What I didn't realize was that sites are now adding whole blocks of third-party code which does things even they don't seem to know about.

[jollystomper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by COcheesehead I think you missed my point. We had far more information exposed about us in years past. Yet we get all bent out of shape about someone serving up an ad on FB that may actually appeal to us.

I would disagree. The information in a phone book is far less than what information we have exposed to us today. In addition, with the phone book it was very difficult to associate the wrong information with a person, while it is very common today. ALso, if you think FB is using the data *only* to serve up ads that appeal to us (and frankly most people do not want to deal with ads even if they do appeal to us), think again

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptTom Getting back to the technology, it appears from my reading that the "Meta Pixel" implementation is a block of Java code which the host (in this discussion, tax prep software companies) put on their web pages. This code is provided by Meta (Facebook) servers. A couple of explanations I read say that the code actually scans the page looking for tidbits it would like to scoop up. The tax software company may not even know what this code is passing back to Meta's servers. Everyone's motivations are clear here. The tax software companies get tracking information about how their web sites are being used. Meta gets to harvest more personal data. Users are either oblivious or just don't care. There's no magic here. The idea of a third-party tracking pixel is not new. What I didn't realize was that sites are now adding whole blocks of third-party code which does things even they don't seem to know about.

In addition, Java in a webpage can do a lot more than just scan the current page. Been there, wrote that. That is the troubling part of putting code that a third party provides, without due diligence to analyze what exactly the code is doing.

[COcheesehead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jollystomper I would disagree. The information in a phone book is far less than what information we have exposed to us today. In addition, with the phone book it was very difficult to associate the wrong information with a person, while it is very common today. ALso, if you think FB is using the data *only* to serve up ads that appeal to us (and frankly most people do not want to deal with ads even if they do appeal to us), think again In addition, Java in a webpage can do a lot more than just scan the current page. Been there, wrote that. That is the troubling part of putting code that a third party provides, without due diligence to analyze what exactly the code is doing.

If you have insider knowledge of what FB is doing with the data other than to drive revenue from advertisers, please offer it. We all would like to know.

[ncbill]

These products all drop to $25 or so if you wait until Black Friday.

That's worth it to me not to have to enter my personal data into a website.

Shoot, their tax forms aren't final enough to file until January anyway.

[JoeWras]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncbill These products all drop to $25 or so if you wait until Black Friday. That's worth it to me not to have to enter my personal data into a website. Shoot, their tax forms aren't final enough to file until January anyway.

And Turbotax on Amazon has been famous for having a really good deal day after Christmas.

[Aerides]

Quote:

Originally Posted by COcheesehead Welcome to the phonebook.

While this is true, hardly anyone to all the national phone book data in current, digitized form, plugged into algorithms that could feed out ads and make money off us every where we went, in milliseconds, on the scale of 10's of millions of people.

So, while, sure, in 1983, I could look through the phone book and find name and address of anyone in my area code, I'd have to schlep to the next county for a wider search.

Remember the film "All the President's Men"? - there's a scene where the reporters go to some back room with hundreds of phone books, presumably from all over the country, to try to find someone. Hardly fast, easy, available, or profitable, on any grand scale.

[jollystomper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by COcheesehead If you have insider knowledge of what FB is doing with the data other than to drive revenue from advertisers, please offer it. We all would like to know.

No "insider" information needed, Search Engines are your friend . Facebook and data privacy issues have been steadily in the news. For example:

https://www.vice.com/en/article/akvm...-where-it-goes

Quote:

...And the “fundamental” problem, the company admits, is that Facebook has no idea where all of its user data goes, or what it’s doing with it, according to a leaked internal document obtained by Motherboard... ... In other words, even Facebook’s own engineers admit that they are struggling to make sense and keep track of where user data goes once it’s inside Facebook’s systems, according to the document. This problem inside Facebook is known as “data lineage.”

[ExFlyBoy5]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gauss They aren't allowed to disclose data to 3rd parties without your consent. I could cite the law if motivated. (We ran into this issue at our volunteer tax prep site a few years ago. But at the end of the day I knew that it would not happen because of the Federal law prohibiting it) Now if the software has a button that gives consent which is checked by default and remains checked, then they would be covered. edit: Relevant Regulation § 301.7216-1 Penalty for disclosure or use of tax return information. (a) In general. Section 7216(a) prescribes a criminal penalty for tax return preparers who knowingly or recklessly disclose or use tax return information for a purpose other than preparing a tax return. A violation of section 7216 is a misdemeanor, with a maximum penalty of up to one year imprisonment or a fine of not more than $1,000, or both, together with the costs of prosecution. https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/26/301.7216-1 If memory serves, the penalty is per return disclosed without consent. -gauss

Did you read the entire article? And you know that companies breaking the law ALL THE TIME, right? The penalties are usually much less than that revenue they are making. Or more common, there is a "settlement" with the regulatory agency.

[camfused]

Quote:

Originally Posted by COcheesehead Username Can you imagine if there was a book with your name, phone number and address in it with advertising and it was FREE to anyone? Welcome to the phonebook.

What's a phonebook?

[CaptTom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jollystomper In addition, Java in a webpage can do a lot more than just scan the current page. Been there, wrote that. That is the troubling part of putting code that a third party provides, without due diligence to analyze what exactly the code is doing.

It's kinda creepy. I knew about third-party cookies, and third-party one-pixel images. I block those. I can see those are child's play compared to the things third-party Java code could do. I'm not even sure if there are tools to block this stuff.

[Sunset]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptTom Getting back to the technology, it appears from my reading that the "Meta Pixel" implementation is a block of Java code which the host (in this discussion, tax prep software companies) put on their web pages. This code is provided by Meta (Facebook) servers. A couple of explanations I read say that the code actually scans the page looking for tidbits it would like to scoop up. The tax software company may not even know what this code is passing back to Meta's servers. Everyone's motivations are clear here. The tax software companies get tracking information about how their web sites are being used. Meta gets to harvest more personal data. Users are either oblivious or just don't care. There's no magic here. The idea of a third-party tracking pixel is not new. What I didn't realize was that sites are now adding whole blocks of third-party code which does things even they don't seem to know about.

+1
It amazed me sometimes how a company would just slap in a 3rd party code with no understanding of what is being done.
Of course, the attraction is great as it's "free" and works great to do whatever the purpose is used for.

Seems to me, this is so bad, that criminal prosecutions should be done against some of the FB folks, as they are entrapping all sorts of companies (think bank, brokerages, etc) with these "free" offerings.
Instead the best that can be hoped for is a tiny fine compared to the profits a company reaps.
Unless of course some Congress members find their personal information spread.

[niven]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptTom It's kinda creepy. I knew about third-party cookies, and third-party one-pixel images. I block those. I can see those are child's play compared to the things third-party Java code could do. I'm not even sure if there are tools to block this stuff.

A nitpick - it's JavaScript, not Java. Java is compiled and requires a separate runtime install on the client machine. I don't think Chrome even allows Java to be run from the browser anymore, and it always required special permissions. JavaScript is interpreted and can be run by your default browser settings - no extra software or settings required. JavaScript is more limited in what it can do on your machine.

[audreyh1]

It’s pretty amazing that this “Meta pixel” can just look at what’s on your screen (web page that is), and just suck up what you’ve entered and send it to Facebook!

[JoeWras]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunset +1 It amazed me sometimes how a company would just slap in a 3rd party code with no understanding of what is being done. Of course, the attraction is great as it's "free" and works great to do whatever the purpose is used for.

I stopped being amazed a long time ago after all the pressure we got to use 3rd party stuff and ship with it.

Sunset: I get what you are saying, though. I'm just kind of playing a little word-salad-stew game. To me it is more disgust than amazement.

The blind use of 3rd party was one of the many reasons I decided to retire early. It was just an incredible change from my early career where we were proud to own all our code.

Late career, when my product used a lot of open and 3rd party libraries, we had customers who refused to deploy it until it had "settling time," presumably just to make sure other customers found these kind of issues. At the same time, the 3rd party or open source providers wouldn't support the old libraries! We were in a total bind and it just made my stomach rot.

BTW: this meta-pixel thing bit a bunch of hospitals in our area. The pixel was phoning home with certain information you'd provide to your hospital provider. Nice, eh?

[ownyourfuture]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazz4cash This. I am ALWAYS surprised every year how much energy is devoted here on free or cheap tax software. I'm only interested in the desktop version but the posters don't usually mention which version they are talking about. I only pay $20-30 for HRB and we have 3 family members filing returns. Cheap.

[COcheesehead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jollystomper No "insider" information needed, Search Engines are your friend . Facebook and data privacy issues have been steadily in the news. For example: https://www.vice.com/en/article/akvm...-where-it-goes

I am not convinced. Seems a little bit of a tin foil hat thing. Nobody knows so it must be bad, when in reality it just might be to sell ads.
Can anyone point to anything concrete that has happened bad to them over data gathered from FB?

[Sunset]

Quote:

Originally Posted by COcheesehead I am not convinced. Seems a little bit of a tin foil hat thing. Nobody knows so it must be bad, when in reality it just might be to sell ads. Can anyone point to anything concrete that has happened bad to them over data gathered from FB?

I don't think anyone could ever point to FB being the source of data issues. To do so, one would have to never used any other products or companies that stored data.

Basically one would have to be the Uni-bomber, but access FB only.

Otherwise, the data can come from many sources.

However, it's pretty slimy of FB (big surprise here ) to collect the info without telling people and to sell it to various other's which could include various hacking groups.

[COcheesehead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunset I don't think anyone could ever point to FB being the source of data issues. To do so, one would have to never used any other products or companies that stored data. Basically one would have to be the Uni-bomber, but access FB only. Otherwise, the data can come from many sources. However, it's pretty slimy of FB (big surprise here ) to collect the info without telling people and to sell it to various other's which could include various hacking groups.

That is sorta my point. Folks are getting upset over the data gathered, but in reality it’s been that way for a long time from a variety of sources. Maybe even this forum.
I have taken the angle of protect yourself on the backend through a variety of means (2FA, credit freezes, credit monitoring, etc) because you need to assume your data and sensitive information is already likely out there.

[Koolau]

As usual, I just say check my tag line though YMMV.