The 9.9% - The New American Aristocracy - Atlantic Article

[RAE]

I tend to worry about things that I can actually do something about.

Abstracts like this make me say "what's it got to do with me?".

Well, there's no doubt that the country could do something to address wealth inequality, if the political will was there. The problem, of course, is that the people that most benefit from wealth inequality (the 1%, and especially the 0.1%) largely control political policy (including tax policy), so it becomes very, very difficult to change the current course we are on.

No disrespect intended, but "what's it got to do with me"? seems like a rather narrow, self-centered view of the situation. As RobLJ said, a whole lot of wage workers in this country have been struggling to make it for the last 30+ years, while the rich continue to get richer. Lots of college grads are struggling to make it these days now also (including some relatives of mine). Sure, some have made poor decisions that contributed to their struggles, but plenty did everything right and are still barely keeping afloat. Heck, if I were graduating college today, I'd probably be struggling to make it too, as the situation is much different today than when I got out of college. So I try to empathize with the plight of some of these folks, as I would not want to be graduating high school or college right now in this tough economic environment.

 

[Tiger8693]

Someday, my beanie babies will be worth something.

I don't think many of the 1% buy beanie babies, which might help....

 

[marko]

No disrespect intended, but "what's it got to do with me"? seems like a rather narrow, self-centered view of the situation.

Well as I said, when it gets too abstract--"...26 people own as much as the bottom 50% worldwide (3.8 billion people)...." I just tend to glaze over.

I just don't see the connection between sentences/stats like that and my day to day life; I try to focus on things I can do something about.

And as I've noted over the years here, I do lack an empathy gene on many issues.

 

[corn18]

Seems like an issue that has persisted for millennia. I guess it gives us something to grouse about.

 

[NW-Bound]

Income disparity in the US may be high because it has a lot of rich and successful entrepreneurs. But is there more poverty in the US compared to elsewhere?

The poorest level one can be is when he lives in the street, or being homeless. Using this definition, I found the statistics of homelessness of all countries. The US fares a lot better in this aspect than many socialistic countries!

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_population.

 

[RAE]

Seems like an issue that has persisted for millennia. I guess it gives us something to grouse about.

It's actually gotten much, much worse since the 1970s/80s or so, as the graph in the Atlantic article showed. Currently the top 0.1% control as much wealth in the USA (not globally) as the bottom 80%. I don't see how that kind of severe wealth imbalance can be healthy for the country.

 

[marko]

Income disparity in the US may be high because it has a lot of rich and successful entrepreneurs. But is there more poverty in the US compared to elsewhere?

The poorest level one can be is when he lives in the street, or being homeless. Using this definition, I found the statistics of homelessness of all countries. The US fares a lot better in this aspect than many socialistic countries!

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_population.

Well, THAT's an interesting chart. Not what I expected.

 

[beanctr88]

Well, there's no doubt that the country could do something to address wealth inequality, if the political will was there. The problem, of course, is that the people that most benefit from wealth inequality (the 1%, and especially the 0.1%) largely control political policy (including tax policy), so it becomes very, very difficult to change the current course we are on.

No disrespect intended, but "what's it got to do with me"? seems like a rather narrow, self-centered view of the situation. As RobLJ said, a whole lot of wage workers in this country have been struggling to make it for the last 30+ years, while the rich continue to get richer. Lots of college grads are struggling to make it these days now also (including some relatives of mine). Sure, some have made poor decisions that contributed to their struggles, but plenty did everything right and are still barely keeping afloat. Heck, if I were graduating college today, I'd probably be struggling to make it too, as the situation is much different today than when I got out of college. So I try to empathize with the plight of some of these folks, as I would not want to be graduating high school or college right now in this tough economic environment.

I’d rather be graduating from college with 3.6% unemployment than 10% plus that some cohorts of college graduates did. I would think an eager, hard working graduate would find getting that first position reasonably easy right now. Inability to find a job in the current economy could be based on a person’s poor choice of major, inflexibility on where they’ll live, or being too selective on finding the “perfect” job.

I tell young people to forget where your family lives and take the path that you think will be best for your career. You can move home later after you are established in your career.

 

[Dtail]

Without getting political, does anyone remember the top tax rates in the 1950's -1970's?
Look it up as it was much higher than now.
Same with CEO and top level compensation to worker compensation ratio, except reverse from 1950's as much higher ratio now.
2 possible reasons among many for income inequality.

 

[NW-Bound]

Well, THAT's an interesting chart. Not what I expected.

Not what I expected either! Eye opening, eh?

 

[corn18]

It's actually gotten much, much worse since the 1970s/80s or so, as the graph in the Atlantic article showed. Currently the top 0.1% control as much wealth in the USA (not globally) as the bottom 80%. I don't see how that kind of severe wealth imbalance can be healthy for the country.

I think the data show something different:

I couldn't find a chart that goes back to 1 A.D. but I bet that looked a lot worse than it does today. C'mon folks, stop trying to find a nail to hit with your hammer.

 

[marko]

I’d rather be graduating from college with 3.6% unemployment than 10% plus that some cohorts of college graduates did. I would think an eager, hard working graduate would find getting that first position reasonably easy right now. Inability to find a job in the current economy could be based on a person’s poor choice of major, inflexibility on where they’ll live, or being too selective on finding the “perfect” job.

Yeah. My field was aeronautics. On the day I graduated, Pan Am laid off 2000 people.

If had I waited for a job with the airlines or NASA I'd likely still be waiting instead of wasting a beautiful day here reading this early retirement site.

 

[FI FELLOW]

Nice theory, but the facts are simple. It matters less if you go to an elite university if you major in something difficult, like chemistry or physics, for example, and then do something productive with that degree. I grew up in Newark, NJ, son of a policeman and a housewife, went to two lower-tier universities, got my BS, MS and PhD degrees (graduate degrees while working full-time) and worked hard to be a damn good chemist for 38 years and counting.

My reward? A net worth of $5MM and current earnings of 4-500K per year. Despite a divorce, alimony and 20 years of child support payments I'm FI and choose to still work. My parents didn't pull me up the ladder, I did.

No matter what this guy babbles about, I'm not apologizing for my achievements, nor am I feeling bad about them. You don't need mommy and daddy's influence, you don't need the Ivy League, you don't need to be born and raised in Brentwood, you don't need the government. You need drive and the desire to do something others think is too hard to try. That is what the meritocracy is all about, and if you're part of it, be proud. YOU built that!

 

[Bigdawg]

Yeah. My field was aeronautics. On the day I graduated, Pan Am laid off 2000 people.

If had I waited for a job with the airlines or NASA I'd likely still be waiting instead of wasting a beautiful day here reading this early retirement site.

Assuming you graduated in the late 60's in Aeronautics. Let's see, NASA was booming, Army, Air Force and Naval aviation were doing quite well. I would take an aeronautical degree in that climate any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I found the layoffs in 1991. Can't find the one that matches up to when you were graduating college (late 60's/early 70's).

Glad you didn't wait and feel entitled to a job. Seems things worked out for you.

 

[I am He]

Intergenerational wealth effect is a key point. I am blessed by having a couple of ongoing generations that set out to do better and not necessarily for themselves. If anything, I'm the slacker. However I'm keeping things in check so to speak. Probably since I'm now in my 50s.

My Grandparents had a nice quiet life. No real extravagances (lived through the depression, saved for the future and their kids' futures by limiting their own lifestyle.

My parents did better, no longer factory workers but small town white collar people living blue collar lives. Why? because they intended to keep things moving along.

One of the troubles is that very few "poor folk" have the idea to not get on the bandwagon of spending (new cars, large homes, lots of things and experiences [think going to games and concerts where you'll drop a few hundred quite easily and often] so that if not for themselves or even their children that perhaps their grandchildren will be the ones who greatly benefit vs. their own immediate desires.

I swear that in inner city Milwaukee in the 50s, plenty of minorities had decent union factory jobs. They worked hard and had a great ethic. They had decent community relations even in the midst of racial struggle. It was their kids in the 60s that dropped the ball for whatever reason. Perhaps because it wasn't spelled out that they needed to keep on the same path for another generation or two so that things would continue to get better instead of backsliding.

I think in the US that we're particularly short sighted. Hopefully enough are not.

 

[Chuckanut]

For those that do not think wealth inequality is an issue, is there any point where it would be too much? What if one person owned 99% of the assets in the U.S and rest had to live on the 1% leftover?

That sounds like a socialist state where the government owns just about everything. I worked with a Russian fellow years ago who can tell us how well that worked out.

Still, you make a good point. People forget or never realized that our economy is a feedback loop. If we don't have people willing to invest in growth, then we won't get much. OTOH, if we don't have enough people who can buy the goods and services these investments produce, then either the investment will never happen or it will grind to a halt.

Economic health depends on the health of our Feedback Loop. If the percentages shift to far in one direction or the other, the Loop slows down or fails completely. Not so good.

 

[marko]

Assuming you graduated in the late 60's in Aeronautics. Let's see, NASA was booming, Army, Air Force and Naval aviation were doing quite well. I would take an aeronautical degree in that climate any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I found the layoffs in 1991. Can't find the one that matches up to when you were graduating college (late 60's/early 70's).

Don't have the specifics but in June 1972 the airlines were not hiring at all and many were laying off. Most of my graduating class ended up in non-airline jobs.

I ended up in a small, hire-from-within company as a test technician and 30 years later retired from there as Executive VP of what evolved into a $500MM tech company.

I originally aimed for airlines because I wanted the free travel benefit. Instead, my job took me to 4,000,000 miles of company paid travel all around the world, so I guess I got my goal in a roundabout way. And, it was 1000% more comfortable than flying stand-by as an airline employee.

 

[target2019]

I have the empathy gene. And after reviewing a few hundred years of gene-passing, I'd say we are fortunate that some ancestors got through the immigration door at all. So it must be the "lucky" gene that keeps me happy.

 

[Clone]

... in the 50s, plenty of minorities had decent union factory jobs. They worked hard and had a great ethic. They had decent community relations even in the midst of racial struggle.

Not just minorities- when we had a strong manufacturing base, there were good jobs for many people. And you did not need a college education. One of the big changes that I see is that 'we' have eliminated much of our industry because it is 'dirty, menial, polluting, environmentally not sustainable (whatever that means), and noisy.' Those jobs went to developing countries or parts of the world where they welcomed the opportunity to add value to natural resources and create jobs for their people. So what do those folks do now? Somebody who could have worked the line and provided a good life for their family is now encouraged to go to college, and down we go through the rabbit hole of college debt, degrees that don't have income potential, and lots of frustration and angst.

An individual who was 'slow' might still have had a job pumping gas or hauling groceries. Now, we are concerned about safety and profits to the point that those jobs are gone. Hard work was respected, now it is scoffed at. I do not know how this ends, but I do not know how we compete with developing country wages stacked up against USA lifestyle expectations.

As someone who has done well, I guess I can select a position on this issue. Some folks choose to be snooty about it and ignore it. Others take the self loathing route. I find it easy to push the responsibility onto our 'political elite' who are among the wealthy of this country, making the policies that seem to work well for themselves and their masters (the 0.1%). I find it interesting to watch how that system is beginning to implode, as the voters begin to reject the 'business as usual.' But, I think we have a long road to travel before the masses overthrow their masters. So long as folks are satisfied with video games, internet, and ramen noodles we will be OK. Throw in a free tattoo to express your angst, and we are all good.

 

[LRDave]

I don't think things are going to change any time soon.

Also probably said by a bunch of French guys in 1789........

 

[marko]

Also probably said by a bunch of French guys in 1789........

Or a bunch of Russians around 1917.
Or a bunch of Chinese around 1949

But those didn't work out as well.

 

[marko]

Intergenerational wealth effect is a key point.

One of the troubles is that very few "poor folk" have the idea to not get on the bandwagon of spending (new cars, large homes, lots of things and experiences [think going to games and concerts where you'll drop a few hundred quite easily and often] so that if not for themselves or even their children that perhaps their grandchildren will be the ones who greatly benefit vs. their own immediate desires.
.

My grandfather was quite wealthy but lived like an extreme miser in his later years.
I can assure you that his children's and grandchildren's benefit was the last thing on his mind.

As his heirs, we are most grateful for his stinginess and often break out a bottle of Dom and toast him.

 

[pj.mask]

I think the data show something different:

I don’t see anything on this chart relating top 1% to bottom 80%?

I grew up in Newark, NJ, son of a policeman and a housewife, went to two lower-tier universities, got my BS, MS and PhD degrees (graduate degrees while working full-time) and worked hard to be a damn good chemist for 38 years and counting.

My parents didn't pull me up the ladder, I did.

You need drive and the desire to do something others think is too hard to try...if you're part of it, be proud. YOU built that!

You are lucky that you have the capabilities to do well and understand chemistry. Also lucky to be born/raised with grit - that has a large determination on success. The idea that anyone can do well if they just try (people with mental retardation, paraplegics, etc) seems really out of touch. Sure those are extreme examples but I is all shades of gray - where does someone draw the line between “lazy” and “incapable”?

 

[Teacher Terry]

PJ, I have posted something similar to you many times after spending my career first as a social worker and then helping people with disabilities return to work or start working.

 

[Cut-Throat]

The author of this article has merely described the society in which we currently live. He is talking about the averages of our current culture. Are there exceptions, sure there are. And some of these exceptions state their individual case on this thread... But, they are probably mostly if not all belonging to the white race and have other perks of 'white privilege' and advantages that they have never 'tallied up'.


Some could not bear to read to article to it's end and have posted remarks that this author predicted exactly what their response would be. The truth can hurt, especially when you fail to acknowledge it.